Transformers: Dark of the Moon Talk, banter, and possible spoilers
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Posted on: 2011-06-28 22:00 in Comic and Hero-Villain Culture
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I prefere some of the later incarnations of him, where he didn't seem so incompetent, and where he generally kicks butt, and he was a bit more to be feared.|
Originally Posted by Schismatrix
That just means they're staying true to Starscream's traditional role of being a self-aggrandizing incompetent. Although to be fair in the original cartoon series every single character was generally deeply stupid. Sure, they might've had ambitious, and in some cases noble, goals, but every single character in the original cartoon repeatedly demonstrated the logical and tactical thinking skills of a concussed stoat with fetal alcohol syndrome.
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Every now and again in the 80's cartoon I recall them showing a glimpse of it, and then...back to old Starscream.
Starscream Cybertron I recall him being awesome!
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The Starscream from the Unicron Trilogy (Armada, Energon, Cybertron) series is my favorite also, with G1 in second and TF Animated as third.
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Originally Posted by BrandX
Starscream Cybertron I recall him being awesome!
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Originally Posted by BrandX
I prefere some of the later incarnations of him, where he didn't seem so incompetent, and where he generally kicks butt, and he was a bit more to be feared.
Every now and again in the 80's cartoon I recall them showing a glimpse of it, and then...back to old Starscream. Starscream Cybertron I recall him being awesome! |
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Originally Posted by Unknown_User
The Starscream from the Unicron Trilogy (Armada, Energon, Cybertron) series is my favorite also, with G1 in second and TF Animated as third.
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Edit: My theory is that Bay's Transformer movies seem to be based on the original 80s cartoon and pay little attention to anything in the later series. Some of the later series had much greater character depth and more sophisticated storytelling. Bay's largely in it to make movies where robots smash the crap out of each other and everything else around them while stuff blows up in the background. Everything else is largely there to supply justification and transitions for the robot fight scenes. Of course i could be misinterpreting his intent.
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Essentially, what happened to Megatron in this one was, he was made The Starscream.
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Originally Posted by Beastyle
So, I absolutely loved that scene, because I didn't see him moping so much as relaxing and being relieved to see Cybertron again. It was like the one piece of insight you get into Megatron's character that isn't "Grrr! Argh! Autobots!"
That scene was probably the highlight of the movie for me. |
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I would have to agree that is was better than the second movie, but that's seriously faint praise. It's a Michael Bay film, so I think anyone who cares at all about the movies they see being good knew from the outset that this wouldn't be.
Even for 'popcorn flicks' I still like the plot to make some sense and the characters to be consistent - in other words, it would be nice if the people who made the movie cared enough about the source material to make it a decent flick instead of a slideshow of explosions and hot chicks with some dialogue thrown in here and the for the lulz. This movie was probably the best of the trilogy, but that's still pretty faint praise.
I won't ever be purchasing any of these movies to add to my home collection as none of them really bear repeat viewing. Well, except possibly the second one just because of how infamously terrible it is, but even then I wouldn't want to contribute any more money to reward this incompetence.
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| Even for 'popcorn flicks' I still like the plot to make some sense and the characters to be consistent - in other words, it would be nice if the people who made the movie cared enough about the source material to make it a decent flick. |
* MASSIVE SPOILERS * (why are you in this thread anyways if you're worried about those heh.)
Given how much got lifted from the original series in this film I'd have say someone was paying attention to the source material.
- The plot of Ultimate Doom , where the Decepticons used a space bridge to move cybertron to earth to enslave us and gather resources is lifted wholesale.
- Megatron using Abe lincoln's momument as a throne. This was done in the episode Atlantis Arises. (and the ending of the first movie game as the Decepticons.)
- Dark Awakening, Optimus prime was brought back to life as a trap for the autobots. In the episode Rodimus imediately tries hand over leadership back to Optimus Prime the same way Prime does to Sentinel in the film. Only difference is Sentinel rejects the matrix of leadership, while Rodimus has beat it back out of prime later.
- Megatron's master plan, The autobots are forced the earth by the humans to leave due to an act of deception. Of course it turns otu to be a trick, and the autobots return in time to save the planet.
- Ironhide gets wasted simliar to how gets taken out in the 86 film. Only we see it this time.
I'd say there's a lot more stuff but there's alot of attention to details to the source material. Far more than the credit given. Even Revenge of the fallen, was simliar plot to change gears with the solar needle. Jetfire maintained his role of being a turncoat, the taxi service of the team, and merged with Optimus Prime as he did in the Unicron trilogy.
Ulimately you have watch these with the same level of suspession of disbelief as you did with the original series. If you overanalyze it all it just doesn't work as Why in world would Megatron held back that many troops on the moon till now. 200 some Decepticons landed in DC....why did they just chill on the moon till now? If Soundwave and Lazerbeak have been on the Earth since the 60s...why didn't they help find the Allspark sooner? Same could be said for ROTF...why didnt Jetfire, or any of the seekers looking for the Matrix of Leadership recover the Allspark since it wasn't concealed till the hoover dam was built if they'd been here for centuries? You just have look at the stories from a self contained episode outlook as there's parts that just don't work if you don't.
As a selfcontained story the whole backstory of Dark of the moon is an interesting conspiracy. If it wasnt so much retreading of ROTF I'd liked it more, but I enjoy the film for what is is. It never had the magic moment the other films had, as when the autobots descend, or the forest battle happens, those were just perfect moments that really captured the essense of transformers. All in all was worth seeing though.
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This something I commented on antoher forum that applies here.|
Originally Posted by White Hot Flash
I felt like Patrick Dempsey's character's actions after the invasion was just wrong. He was either dumb enough to believe the Decepticons would honor some sort of deal they made (before he knew what he was helping them do), or he thought he could still win their favor by continuing to help them by preventing Sam from interfering with the Rods. Either way, he should have seen the writing on the wall, if he was as smart as they portrayed him to be earlier in the movie, and had some sort of Prodigal Son turnaround at the end. It would have made more sense than him continuing to fight Sam till the bitter end.
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* It wasn't just a war of factions, but beliefs. Sentinel figured if he could rebuild cybertron and get their race back on it's feet then Optimus would eventually see things his way. Why he spared him in DC(which both of them were holding back in the scuffle. Prime was just trying detain him.), and forced them to leave. (whether he asked Starscream to blow up the autobots ship or not is another story. That easily could have been Megatron or Screamers call.) At the end Sentinel having revealed his plans, and was shocked that even with Cybertron right there in front of his eyes...Optimus still wasn't going quit. I bring you Cybertron Optimus, and you still side with the humans. (more or less.) Sentinel wanted Optimus at his side, and to have his approval in this.
Optimus was a true beleiver in everything he learned, while Sentinel was alot like Dylan.(in which case once they both commited their betrayals there was no turning back as the side they screwed over would likely shaft them every bit as hard as the villains they sided with might.) They'll try do right thing when it's convient, but when push came to shove was out to save their own skin and willing toss their morales aside if doing the right thing isn't in their best interests. Both were willing to side with the Decepticons, despite collectively making a choice that was bad for their race.
Dylan was a mirror being held up showing humans were just as capable of being monsterous(which he was trying convince Sam to join his side in a simliar fashion as Sentinel did to Prime.) was the Decepticons while Optimus was a mirror being held up showing Cybertronians can strive to for the greater good no matter even when it is to just simpler to take the easy way out.
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Originally Posted by Lastjustice
* MASSIVE SPOILERS * (why are you in this thread anyways if you're worried about those heh.)
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*SPOILERS*
And the Wreckers to me, equaled the Junkions (Wreckgar)
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I'd disagree, as they were supposed be like futball holigans. It was a nod to the UK comics , Simon Furman making the team. Bumble bee was more like wreckgar with his talking in lines from TV and movies.
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Originally Posted by BrandX
*SPOILERS*
And the Wreckers to me, equaled the Junkions (Wreckgar) |
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they were supposed to be futball hooligans? wow...the pictures gave people the impressions of nascar rednecks.
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I think I can agree w/ you on that.
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Originally Posted by Durakken
I want to see a Micheal Bay X-Men movie...
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I thought the plot was simple and easy to follow. Or do you mean you want a more complicated plot?|
Originally Posted by Justaris
I would have to agree that is was better than the second movie, but that's seriously faint praise. It's a Michael Bay film, so I think anyone who cares at all about the movies they see being good knew from the outset that this wouldn't be.
Even for 'popcorn flicks' I still like the plot to make some sense and the characters to be consistent - in other words, it would be nice if the people who made the movie cared enough about the source material to make it a decent flick instead of a slideshow of explosions and hot chicks with some dialogue thrown in here and the for the lulz. This movie was probably the best of the trilogy, but that's still pretty faint praise. I won't ever be purchasing any of these movies to add to my home collection as none of them really bear repeat viewing. Well, except possibly the second one just because of how infamously terrible it is, but even then I wouldn't want to contribute any more money to reward this incompetence. |
If it had a more complicated plot, wouldn't people complain it wasn't like the Transformer cartoons they remembered from their childhood?
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Ok, I saw it yesterday.
The good:
1) It is NOT TF2
2) The primary story-line
3) Optimus and friends actually act like soldiers
4) Lazerbeak was a nasty, nasty piece of work.
5) Alan Tudyk
6) Rosie Huntington-Whiteley is superior to Megan Fox in every way.
The bad:
1) Megatron is again, down-played. I get he was injured and not functioning at full power, but damn.... just once I wanted to see the warlord/gladiator that is Megatron.
2) Shockwave. Yes he looked damn cool but where was cold, calculating military operations commander? He's reduced to just a 2nd tier character to be overcome, then a full blown villain in his own right... which is a shame.
3) Soundwave. Still waiting for him to actually show up in the movies and stomp the crap out of these pretenders. This time, they even avoid giving him the more traditional voice.
4) The Witwicky's Comedy Hour, Part 3: Bay still doesn't get why we're coming to see the movie. Again, the comedy relief takes up too much of the first half of the movie, and this time it's so out of place it becomes a distraction.
5) John Malkovich and Ken Jeong: Absolutely useless non-characters. In Malkovich's case, intensified by the fact they could have actually had *him* play a much more confident and menacing Dylan.
The Ugly:
1) The Wreckers. Brought down from an elite "dirty jobs" strike force, to three product-placement psychopaths.
2) Bay's "Scotched Earth" ending: Killing the majority of the major villains of the franchise (Megatron, Shockwave, Soundwave, Starscream, etc.). It's almost as if he's saying. "Now they'll HAVE to start over."
Well.. there's always Unicron.
Over all: It's a good summer popcorn movie to hold us over until Cap hits towards the end of the month. Seeing it as a 2D matinee, I felt like I got my money's worth. Using the F. Paul Wilson "Fast Forward" scale where lower is better. I'd give it about a 3 (meaning I'd fast-forward through about 30% of it.)
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If I had to hazard a guess. I'd say they probably changed the not-Wreckers accents from redneckish to hoolganish as to not offend the millions of fans of left-turn racing.
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Originally Posted by Lastjustice
I'd disagree, as they were supposed be like futball holigans. It was a nod to the UK comics , Simon Furman making the team. Bumble bee was more like wreckgar with his talking in lines from TV and movies.
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It's 106 miles to Grandville, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark and we're wearing faceless helmets
... Hit it ...
... Hit it ...
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Entirely possible. Alot of people were guessing they'd be rednecks, but honestly after the twins backlash I can see why they didn't.They deleted the Twins from the movie to avoid any further fiascos for same reason. you do see them at the end of the convoy in the intro, but the rest of their scenes are deleted. I personally would liked them left in as they were supposed be killed by Sentinel Prime to save Bumble bee from him. I mean what better way for them to be used than as fodder heh? Rather than take the chance of offending more people they were erased from the storyline. They still got toys based off their new designs though.
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Originally Posted by Jet_Boy
If I had to hazard a guess. I'd say they probably changed the not-Wreckers accents from redneckish to hoolganish as to not offend the millions of fans of left-turn racing.
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This movie had lots of action but I didn't like it. I love the Transformers(was raised during Generation 1) but the movie at times just mad me sad.
I had problems here:
1. Carly, did she get a lot of screen time or what? I hated the fact she had a british accent. I thought that was tacky. I didn't like her at all.
2. The Transformers clearly are superior but if you have the ability to move an entire planet why bother with the humans? I mean why go to Chicago? This just killed any hope in my mind for the movie. If your going to overtake a planet why not pull/setup TP in a less populated location.
3. I'm glad Michael Bay is done with his run. I hated the Extreme Transformers. They look so awful.
4. StarScream why is he even in this movie?
5. Megatron, how many times does he die and comeback? He's died in every movie. Maybe he'll be called Galvatron next time.
6. How did Shockwave get his abomination from Chernobyl to Chicago?
I did like these scenes:
1. The scene with Shia(bumblebee) getting thrown and screaming his head off for about 1 minute made my day. Even when he got back into the car he was still screaming.
2. The CGI was good.
3. I gained a greater appreciation for the contributions the US has made to the world in our short time. The internet, space travel, the automobile, the airplane, movies, and telecommunications. We Americans have done a lot in our short time(200+ years).
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Originally Posted by Residentx10
This movie had lots of action but I didn't like it. I love the Transformers(was raised during Generation 1) but the movie at times just mad me sad.
I had problems here: 1. Carly, did she get a lot of screen time or what? I hated the fact she had a british accent. I thought that was tacky. I didn't like her at all. 2. The Transformers clearly are superior but if you have the ability to move an entire planet why bother with the humans? I mean why go to Chicago? This just killed any hope in my mind for the movie. If your going to overtake a planet why not pull/setup TP in a less populated location. 3. I'm glad Michael Bay is done with his run. I hated the Extreme Transformers. They look so awful. 4. StarScream why is he even in this movie? 5. Megatron, how many times does he die and comeback? He's died in every movie. Maybe he'll be called Galvatron next time. 6. How did Shockwave get his abomination from Chernobyl to Chicago? I did like these scenes: 1. The scene with Shia(bumblebee) getting thrown and screwing his head off for about 1 minute made my day. Even when he got back into the car he was still screaming. 2. The CGI was good. 3. I gained a greater appreciation for the contributions the US has made to the world in our short time. The internet, space travel, the automobile, the airplane, movies, and telecommunications. We Americans have done a lot in our short time(200+ years). |
1) Didn't see a problem with the accent. Only reason to really have a problem with it, is if you're recalling G1 where she lacked it, but then, in G1 Sam was called Spike. I kept hoping Sam would get the codename Spike at some point.
2) Well, to spread the devices, which were all over the world, maybe they couldnt get them all into one isolated place? Also likely to show their superioty.
3) Well, I did hate some of the heads they used for some of them. :/ Like the ones with hair. And the one who died right before Bumble Bee was about to get shot, had the hair and a stupid face. I wish they kept the heads closer to what we know from the cartoons.
4) He's Starscream! The question should be why wasnt he in it more!
5) With Leonard Nimoy doing the voice!
6) Have you seen the cube transform from huge size to hey look it fits in Sam's pocket? Same thing.
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Are you serious? The allspark was different but the tentacled thing Shockwave rode was just weird.
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Originally Posted by BrandX
6) Have you seen the cube transform from huge size to hey look it fits in Sam's pocket? Same thing. |
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2. They could have put the HQ somewhere else, that's my point. They definitely showed their superiority with that decision. |
Originally Posted by BrandX
2) Well, to spread the devices, which were all over the world, maybe they couldnt get them all into one isolated place? Also likely to show their superiority.
4) He's Starscream! The question should be why wasnt he in it more! |
4. Starscream was so limp in Bay's version. They should have just cut his scenes, he added nothing in this movie(part III).
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Well, Batman was here. At least one version of Superman too.|
Originally Posted by Residentx10
I mean why go to Chicago?
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The Bundys.
Two baseball teams.
A basketball team.
A footb...well, The Bears.
Two major airports and lots of minor ones (connection points are important!)
GREAT food!
And the politicians in Illinois in general (Chicago in particular) are corrupt enough to make the Decepticons look like pikers. They were probably there for Evil Overlord lessons.
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Saw it on Friday, already have forgotten most of it.
It was big and noisy, it made an arseload of money and it's second weekend will see more then a 64% drop.
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You say that like there's any measurable difference between the two... |
Originally Posted by Mr. DJ
they were supposed to be futball hooligans? wow...the pictures gave people the impressions of nascar rednecks.
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Saw it. Liked the explodey bits. Carly was a nice piece of eye candy. And I understand why Dylan didn't have a Heel-Face Turn, simply because the best he could hope for is a firing squad if/when the Autobots/Humanity won.
Thoughts:
Who was the red Autobot? Poor ol' Ironhide, constantly getting killamajigged. Surprised the Flying Dutchman (gotta be a Firefly AND an Halo:ODST reference there - even though Wash wasn't in ODST, Dutch was played by Jayne and forget the name of Mal's character) didn't get impaled on some random bit of metal. Unicron's gotta show up in the next one...reasoning being that the space bridge was some kind of interstellar/galactic beacon to him. Wish Skywarp and Thundercracker were innit. Wheelie was not quite as annoying and actually useful for a change.
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