MMOs for MMO players?

Dumb title, I know, and this will probably come as no surprise to anyone but me, but here goes:

I've recently tried a few "other games," more specifically other MMOs, even if I wasn't aware they were MMOs before I fired them up, and the one overwhelming first reaction I got to all of those games was "Man, I have NO IDEA what to make of all of this stuff!" I mean, I walk into the world and I'm immediately told about instances I could run, where to find the Auction House, where I can find crafting components, where I can find armour dyes, how to form or join guilds and a whole bunch of other things that I can't really take all in. The hell? You can't do that, game! You can't just throw all of these things at my face like I'm expected to know them already!

But then it struck me: I AM supposed to know all of this already, aren't I? I'm supposed to have played other MMOs and have familiarised myself with how crafting works, how to use the Auction House, how the chat interface and map work, what my keys do, how to use my inventory screen and so forth. Because, really, these days if you play one MMO, you've played them all, because damn near all MMOs on the market are just about the same game with different skins over it. Oh, sure, some may have non-visible gear, some may have dynamic combat, some may be set in space, but they're all the same MMO, and they're made such that if you've played ANY OTHER MMO before, you'll know what to do and where everything is in THIS one, too.

I've grumbled before about MMOs being sold as "Has PvP, has Crafting, has Loot, has Auction House, has Raids" before, but it never quite sunk in with me that that's the POINT! If you make a different MMO and toss an MMO vet in there, he'll be confused and have to figure everything out, possibly feel like not even bothering (like I did with some of those), whereas if you throw him into essentially the same game with the same interface and the same subsystems, he'll feel right at home.

Except this creates a pretty... Hostile environment for non-MMO veterans, or those coming from more eccentric MMOs like ours. In other words - me. I remember the first day I logged into City of Heroes. Sure, it took me a while to figure out what Enhancements were, how to travel between zones, that I couldn't attack things by clicking on them and so forth, but there really wasn't all that much to figure out. Find contact, get mission, go kill some stuff, then do it all over again. These days I fear that I can never play another MMO because there's so much "stuff" in there - and so much stuff I don't care about - that even if it's a "free" to play MMO, I still need to invest, like, a week just to know what the hell is going on in that game, before I can actually enjoy my stay.

I shudder to think what City of Heroes has become for new players these days. I was lucky to join the game back when it was simple and learn about all this stuff as it was introduced. If I had to dive in head first and figure out enhancements, combat, levels, powers, zone travel, chat, targeting, teaming, instances, controls ON TOP of all the subsystems and alternate levelling paths and loot and I don't even know what else that's been added over the years... Yikes!

So, yeah, I guess it's good practice to make MMOs for MMO players so they can feel like they never left. But I'm not sure what that does to non-MMO players who want to branch out, or hell - new players entirely, like the players we had who confessed they never even played computer games at all prior to City of Heroes. And I'm not sure that's a good thing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

Welcome to the world of computer software. When we fire up certain programs, we expect certain things. Word Processors have spellcheck and style controls. Spreadsheets have standard calculation formulae. 1st person shooters have a variety of weapons, maps and multiplayer options. MMOs have a mix of PvE, PvP, and the requisite tools in place so players can find, communicate, and interact with each other.

I'm having a hard time seeing exactly what your issue is, unless you're saying the learning curve is too steep? To that I say, in every MMO I've tried, they never dump everything on you at level 1 unless they make clear what topics are advanced and what are basic, and give you the option to put things off until later when you're ready to learn them.

I wouldn't claim every building made of bricks is the same just because they all have bricks, and I don't see how you can say all MMOs are the same because most of them use common tools. It's how those tools are applied and intermingled that makes a good game.

Oh yeah, water is wet too.

Ironically, one of the early big MMORPGs didn't tell you squat upon logging in, under the impression that discovering for yourself where your trainer was and who sold muffins versus who sold healing spells was all part of the experience.

Unfortunately that's how game design seems to work these days. Non-Generic Fantasy MMO came along and made millions of dollars so now the assumption is that the way to make an uber-popular MMO is to try to clone Non-Generic Fantasy MMO.

I'd actually strongly disagree Sam, MMORPG's are FAR less hostile to newbies now than they were a couple years ago. (Mainly precisely becuase they have been more streamlined and better at coughing up the info people want to know, rather than hiding it in some obscure location, or heck, not telling people at all)

I can say as a relative newbie, that I found CoH to be very new-user friendly. Prior to this game I had never touched an MMO and had played very few computer games (I'm talking minesweeper, solitaire, and that's about it). It took a little time for me to figure out how enhancements worked, and to get the feel for the auction house, but all in all I feel like the game does a good job of explaining things to new folks. That, combined with a very helpful and friendly community, made my early CoH days simple and fun.

I've recently played two other MMO's in completely different genres to CoH's story content, neither of which was the 500lb gorilla MMO. My experiences there are quite, quite different from CoH, so much so that I have to relearn my keyboard and interface if I spend more than a few days playing then instead of CoH. I'm also a product of one of Sony's big name early MMO's being my first MMO experience, where as other's noted part of the "game experience" was figuring out game function along with game story. Same example there, you weren't told where your trainer was or, heck at the time, how to gain experience or what it even meant. The onus was on you to figure that out.

Did I like that early experience? While I did play in that MMO for about a year, I can say that at the time it was more frustrating than a game should have been. There were enjoyable bits that kept me subscribed, but looking back now, man do I hate it.

In my opinion, CoH does an admirable job on introducing a new player to the game. I've had a close friend join in lately and I didn't have to hand hold them. The game told them all the nuts and bolts of how to play the game, and left the "game experience" to the story content and fun of playing.

Now, those other two MMO's I mentioned? Both provided similarly admirable entry points for players to learn how to play the game, and even though I'm a CoH veteran, coming into an established MMO which I haven't played is jarring. But, having the game walk me through what I need to know before being unleashed unto the existing playerbase is a boon to both the player himself and the existing playerbase. I don't need to bother other players with the needless questions of how do I use something in my inventory, where is my inventory, how do I quit the game, etc. The game teaches me that, and it absolutely should.

In my mind, the onus of MMO's today is to provide meaningful story content that I can't get anywhere else. The other fantasy MMO I have tried recently (again not the big name fantasy MMO) is completely based around zone-events being the majority of the story content. Much like CoH has the Rikti invasions or the Zombie invasions occasionally to rarely, this other game uses an invasion event system like that to provide its storyline. That is very unique to that MMO and one I can't say any other does. Another sci-fi MMO I have played employs mechanics, storylines, builds, powers, etc. that have you experience content both in a ground combat setting and in a space combat setting. Also, very unique and something I had never experienced before.

All in all, I'd say there is some diverse MMO content out there that strays away from the mainstream versions. You just have to play them.

I think there are a lot of considerations but I have two main ones.

The first is money. Building an MMO takes lots and lots of it. In this respect building an MMO is similar to financing a movie. You have to build something that will be financially successful. Financial solvency is simply a reality.

The second factor is risk. Basically, it is my belief that for every positive change that could make your game more fun, there are 3 more that could make it suck. When developers stick with classic game models it is usually not because they are perfect but because they have been shown to be less risky than other approaches. Significantly included in the second consideration are such factors as how quests/missions are designed, how complex powers are, etc. An extremely complex quest system sounds great... unless it means your staff can only deliver 1/10th as many quests as needed, or they constantly break, or they are too complex to ever be changed. Complex powers are also lots of fun... until you have to teach the AI to use them.

[That gorilla game, by the way, should not be credited with inventing Auction Houses as a means of trade. Auction Houses have been a staple of MUDs for decades. Some of them even let you participate in auctions while still adventuring by eliminating the "house" part and just having it all tied to typed commands.]

You know what I'd enjoy? More turn-based MMOs. The ones I did play (a particular child-fantasy strategy game and a more classic squad-based one) I really enjoyed them alot. The only reason I stopped playing them were 1. One just got really easy as its strategies were more geared for children to grasp 2. I didn't like the aging mechanics in the other which damn near forced you to play the game at least a few times a week and 3. Because CoH was waiting for me when I got bored.

I honestly like turn-based mechanics (not particularly RTS-like but something like it wouldn't hurt) and think it's underutilized as an engine. I even got friends to play it, which is saying a lot since I couldn't get any new friends into a certain fantasy-that-was-suppose-to-be-the-last game or this one. We played and we had fun and we could still talk while interacting with the game.

Lastly, 2-D seems fun too. If you can't tell, I'm a retro-gamer and I like my olde-skool more than the newer stuff coming out. Would these games still have the meat-and-potatoes of every other MMO? Probably, but I don't mind that. When I first picked up FireFox, I didn't pick it because it was wholly different from IE, but because it was stable and familiar. That's perfectly fine, in my book.