I don't like the Vanguard claws...


Angelxman81

 

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Originally Posted by Leo_G View Post
After being more a Star Wars fan, reading more about the history and technology (to this day, it's the only PnP game I think is hilariously fun to play compared to any other and the only one I ever GMed a campaign), I start to imagine how things *really* work. I believe one of the explanations for a lightsaber's blade is that it uses some sort of magnetic field or matrix that keeps the energy constrained to a certain area.

Further visualization, the way I imagine a lightsaber is, it's actually a hollow column of light. A lightsaber isn't a solid column because that'd require even more energy and heat and would constrain the energy traveling straight out of the handle.

No, the way I see it working is the energy/magnetic field constraining the energy is actually *flat* but then curved around to make a continuous loop/column shape. The field basically *spins* the energy around this loop, looser around the hilt and more tightly at the tip so all the energy is contained in the same area. This would also explain why, as described in canon, the lightsaber is difficult to handle because there's some sort of gyrating motion that has to be compensated for.

So if you lightly poke something with the tip of a lightsaber, it'll make an 'O' shape (that is, until whatever you touched burns up or melts, making the shape indistinguishable)
My understanding of how the lightsaber worked was that it was a laser that extended out to a certain distance, then bent back on itself and entered the hilt again, recharging thew powercell. The only time the lightsaber ever used energy was when it actually cut something. There are only 2 ways that I know of to bend light; a strong magnetic field, or a strong gravity field.
Of course, I've seen it theorized that the lightsabers were actually a plasma encased in a magnetic field.

Lightsabers are difficult to handle because they cut through (or burn) whatever they touch. Not so with normal metal (or stone, wood, plastic, or bone) weapons. It would be much easier to lop off an arm with a lightsaber accidentally, then with a regular sword.

That is, of course, my opinion.


There I was between a rock and a hard place. Then I thought, "What am I doing on this side of the rock?"

 

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Originally Posted by Chase_Arcanum View Post
Heh. I'm usually the one railing against the horrendous use of weapons, explosives, and tactical operations in video games with friends in real life, but I just don't see the point here. The genre's so cram packed with the ridiculous that its virtually become a requirement. It'd be like protesting the lack of realistic physics in a Loony-Toons game....
Hehehe, I need to run a "Toon" or "Teenagers from Outer Space" PnP game for you sometime, where you can (for example) make your character immune to damage from any attack he's not aware of.


Where to find me after the end:
The Secret World - Arcadia - Shinzo
Rift - Faeblight - Bloodspeaker
LotRO - Gladden - Aranelion
STO - Holodeck - @Captain_Thiraas

Obviously, I don't care about NCSoft's forum rules, now.

 

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Originally Posted by Chase_Arcanum View Post
Heh. I'm usually the one railing against the horrendous use of weapons, explosives, and tactical operations in video games with friends in real life, but I just don't see the point here. The genre's so cram packed with the ridiculous that its virtually become a requirement. It'd be like protesting the lack of realistic physics in a Loony-Toons game....
Toon was an awesome game. Partly because it was a RPG that my parents didn't associate with the fear mongering 700 club/Egbert incident so I got to play it.


Let's Dance!

 

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Originally Posted by EU_Damz View Post
Cant put my finger on it but im REALLY liking the costume Sam posted.
Heh, that's my revised costume for an old-ish character of mine I didn't have a solid concept for. She was originally intended to use those Vanguard Claws when I rerolled her, which is about half the reason I was so excited about the Vanguard Pack. When I saw the claws in action, however, my enthusiasm died on the spot. I did eventually recover, and she now uses Dual Vanguard Blades, though it meant I had to sacrifice another character's dual blades design in order to do so.

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Originally Posted by Chase_Arcanum View Post
Heh. I'm usually the one railing against the horrendous use of weapons, explosives, and tactical operations in video games with friends in real life, but I just don't see the point here. The genre's so cram packed with the ridiculous that its virtually become a requirement. It'd be like protesting the lack of realistic physics in a Loony-Toons game....
See, I don't mind ridiculous so long as it's cool enough to make me not care. Take Dual Pistols, for instance - it is by FAR the game's most needlessly ridiculous set, and yet I really love how it looks and feels. Or, for an easier example, I have no problem sending a woman running around with a sword longer than she is tall.

However, the Vanguard Claws (and I assume the Rularuu Claws) just look BAD in actual practice. Not goofy, not weird, not ridiculous. Just bad. awkward. It's like if you took a double-bearded axe, grab it by the head with both hands and proceed to jab at enemies with the haft. It looks more than ridiculous. It looks plain bad.

I don't want to make a big fuss about the Vanguard Claws being two-dimensional. I'm sure that even if the game doesn't supply an explanation (and I'm fairly confident it doesn't) that a reasonable one exists. It just bugs me. Like I said before, it doesn't bug me enough to swear off the weapon just for that. After all, I used a Vanguard Bow for a very long time. But the two-dimensional "shape" makes me a bit "meh" on the weapon, so when I see it acting REALLY bad in actual animation, it's one more problem to poke me in the eyes every time I play a character.

A lot of what I say here on the forums comes off as nit-picky and needlessly pedantic, like I do nothing but look for things to bug me. However, the truth of the matter is that these things build up over time. The first time I saw the two-dimensional Vanguard weapons, I didn't really care all that much. But the longer I use them, the longer I see that two-dimensional blade, and each time I see it it bugs me more. This has been on my mind for three, maybe four years, and it took off-centre claws to finally push me into saying something about it. If I can't get over it after several years, I'm not getting over it. Ever.

I keep thinking we're about due for some new weapons, though, so I'm hopeful for the future... Whenever that comes around.


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Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

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Originally Posted by Chase_Arcanum View Post
Talsorian's C2020 was the first that had the molecule-thin wire stretched into a rigid line, serving as an edge to an axe or sword, IIRC. (Shadowrun later had gear that claimed to be much the same)

Actually, Larry Niven beat them to it by at least 10 years. Just to nit-pick


However, it turned out that Smith was not a time-travelling Terminator

 

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I don't want to make a big fuss about the Vanguard Claws being two-dimensional. I'm sure that even if the game doesn't supply an explanation (and I'm fairly confident it doesn't) that a reasonable one exists.
It does.

The blades of all Vanguard weapons are only a single molecule wide, which makes them just about the sharpest you can get anything to be without damaging the laws of physics. And since they are made of energy, you don't have to worry about the thinness of them affecting the stability of the blade.

Remember the scene in Wolverine:Origins where Logan slices the cast iron sink in half by accident because his claws are so sharp? These blades are sharper than that.


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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

 

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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect View Post
It does.
Where? What NPC can I speak with that will explain this? Which clue talks about them? That's what I mean when I say "the game doesn't give an explanation." I've done every arc to do with Vanguard and no-one so much as mentioned the fact that they have energy weapons. Is there a badge I missed somewhere that explains this?

I know people have explained it, that and their history. I know the developers have talked about it. I suspect it's said somewhere on the main site's history and fiction sections. But I didn't see anything about that in-game, and the first I heard about it was people bringing it up in this thread.


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Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect View Post
Remember the scene in Wolverine:Origins where Logan slices the cast iron sink in half by accident because his claws are so sharp? These blades are sharper than that.
I also remember the scene in X-men Origins: Wolverine where Logan was shot in the head with an adamantium bullet and it penetrated right through his adamantium covered skull. Where basic physics would have had caused the bullet to bounce off and go elsewhere. That was my biggest nitpick with that movie.

But, that wouldn't have explained Logan's memory loss.
Besides, it's cool knowing that Logan can recover from being shot in the head.


There I was between a rock and a hard place. Then I thought, "What am I doing on this side of the rock?"

 

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Wolverine has recovered from being torn in half, having both halves of him separated over a mountain, then crawling his upper torso across said mountain and rearranging his body so he heals back together.

Bullet to the head = Nothing.


 

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Originally Posted by Prodiguy View Post
Wolverine has recovered from being torn in half, having both halves of him separated over a mountain, then crawling his upper torso across said mountain and rearranging his body so he heals back together.

Bullet to the head = Nothing.
IIRC, he survived having his entire skeleton ripped out. As far as I can tell, Wolverine is truly immortal.


 

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I still think its lame there is no Vangard Mace.

It doesn't have to be all glowy tech like. Just make a model and put glowing parts on it. Geeze.


When something good happens to me, I can never enjoy it....
I am always too busy looking for the inevitable punchline...


BEHOLD THE POWER OF CHEESE!

 

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Originally Posted by Eiko-chan View Post
IIRC, he survived having his entire skeleton ripped out. As far as I can tell, Wolverine is truly immortal.
Didn't Magneto just pull out all the adamantium coating ON his skeleton?


Be well, people of CoH.

 

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Originally Posted by Test_Rat View Post
I still think its lame there is no Vangard Mace.

It doesn't have to be all glowy tech like. Just make a model and put glowing parts on it. Geeze.
I just use the "pronged Rubik's Cube" mace for that.


Where to find me after the end:
The Secret World - Arcadia - Shinzo
Rift - Faeblight - Bloodspeaker
LotRO - Gladden - Aranelion
STO - Holodeck - @Captain_Thiraas

Obviously, I don't care about NCSoft's forum rules, now.

 

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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba View Post
Didn't Magneto just pull out all the adamantium coating ON his skeleton?
I don't really follow X-Men, but my understanding was that Magneto ripped out the skeleton, and Jean Gray held his body in shape until he regrew a new one. This is, however, second-hand knowledge.


 

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Be well, people of CoH.

 

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Well, okay, that's slightly less stupid than I was led to believe.


 

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Slightly less, yea. This was when they went into full retcon mode, gave him the bone claws...supposedly now he's not a human at all but a mutant wolf or badger or something.

Makes me glad I stopped reading before even this bit occurred.


Be well, people of CoH.

 

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I still think being torn in half and crossing a mountain to get your other half to merge back with you is a bit much. Especially when the Hulk did it.


 

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By the way, while I seem to dislike Vanguard Claws greatly, I'm finding that I really like all of the other Vanguard weapons... With the possible exclusion of Dual Blades, but that's besides the point.

I finally got around to remaking Emillia to use a pair of mismatching Vanguard Katanas, and I have to say, I'm really happy with the look. The long blades describe impressively wide swing arcs, the colours are pretty good and the longer weapons "feel" stronger than her previous short swords. The screenshot I'm listing is old, by the way, and I couldn't quite figure out what I did to get that look.

Still, while the claws may have hurt me, the rest of the weapons are very cool, two-dimensional as they may be. I'm actually planning for a character who will use the Vanguard Shield but swap to an identical costume without the persistent folded shield when out of combat. Just need either Axe for Scrappers, Sword for Brutes or Shield for Stalkers to do it


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Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba View Post
Slightly less, yea. This was when they went into full retcon mode, gave him the bone claws...supposedly now he's not a human at all but a mutant wolf or badger or something.

Makes me glad I stopped reading before even this bit occurred.
Actually, his original concept back in the early 70's (well before becoming a star in X-Men) was just that. Luckily, (as far as I know) no one was stupid enough to actually put it into a story and they made him a human mutant instead.

Also glad I stopped reading long before the writing became this lame.


@Doctor Gemini

Arc #271637 - Welcome to M.A.G.I. - An alternative first story arc for magic origin heroes. At Hero Registration you heard the jokes about Azuria always losing things. When she loses the entire M.A.G.I. vault, you are chosen to find it.

 

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Originally Posted by Eiko-chan View Post
I don't really follow X-Men, but my understanding was that Magneto ripped out the skeleton, and Jean Gray held his body in shape until he regrew a new one. This is, however, second-hand knowledge.
I think someone was confused by the nightmare sequence he had in the followup issue of his own series, as in that nightmare he dreams himself as being without a skeleton.


 

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Originally Posted by Doctor_Gemini View Post
Actually, his original concept back in the early 70's (well before becoming a star in X-Men) was just that. Luckily, (as far as I know) no one was stupid enough to actually put it into a story and they made him a human mutant instead.

Also glad I stopped reading long before the writing became this lame.
Wolverine has had many iteration that weren't fully explained in the comics themselves. Originally, in the Hulk issue he appeared in, his claws were apart of his gloves.


 

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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
I got a screenshot of what I mean:



That's the basic stance on the left and about the mid-point of the animation for Swipe on the right. You can see on the left how the claws look like they should be coming up from below as the fists are pointing up, but the actual claws are on the upper side of the arms at an odd angle. Worse still, you can see on the right that Swipe actually swipes with the flat of the blade, at least partially.

I like how the Vanguard Claws look, but I can never use them in the actual game, because they bug me far too much to use with Claws animations. They just aren't made for forearm-mounted claws.

Sorry about the complaint post. I just wanted to get that off my chest.
Just realized what your character reminds me of: Tali from Mass Effect.


"Men strunt �r strunt och snus �r snus
om ock i gyllne dosor.
Och rosor i ett sprucket krus
�r st�ndigt alltid rosor."

 

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At the risk of not sounding popular.

I always thought they looked like energy projections. The thickness of them never bothered me, because I thought they always looked like light formations with very little substance because they were supposed to.

They never looked very physical to me, because I just assumed they were razor thin lazer like thingies.

When I use my own thought process...I have to say I like em.


 

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Originally Posted by Arilou View Post
Just realized what your character reminds me of: Tali from Mass Effect.
You're not the first one to say that, and you're not entirely unfounded


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Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.