Astral/Empyrean Merits = Recipes.


Adeon Hawkwood

 

Posted

Well, the Devs INTEND for these things to be rare.

For instance, i don't know if you know this, but if you do 5 tip missions a day, and an alignment mission every 2 days, you can build up A-Merits (As long as you're strictly a hero or villain). You can trade A-merits for purple recipes. However, you need a MONTHS WORTH of a-merits to get one. So if the fastest the devs want people getting purples is roughly once a month, the high market prices are somewhat justified.

After all, I'm not going to spend a month getting something, then only sell it for less than I can make by steamrolling a TF.

If the Devs stick by that formula, expect Purples to go for about 30-120 Empy Merits (which would be 1-3 trials a day). They might consider going lower than that, HOWEVER, it would completely negate A-Merits as a way of attaining these goods.

When people say they want "more ways", the Devs respond, but the devs also want people to keep playing the game. They're not going to make these things easy to get. As it stands, we'll now have 3 ways to get these: Farming (Which the devs are okay with, but they don't like exploiters), running solo missions (to get a-merits, though a purp could always drop from a goon you fight, too!) and now people who like doing trials. The only other option would be being able to trade in Normal Merits, which the Devs have seemed reluctant to do.

I guess they could always up the drop rate a tiny bit... I play roughly ever-other day, and usually do a TF or a trial or do some street-sweeping. I've probably defeated dozens of thousands of foes, yet I haven't seen a drop in months. Now, random is random and there's never any guarantee of anything, but at this rate, if i WERE looking for purples, i'd be highly frustrated by now.


-STEELE =)


Allied to all sides so that no matter what, I'll come out on top!
Oh, and Crimson demands you play this arc-> Twisted Knives (MA Arc #397769)

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy View Post
I really hope that this is used as a way to make purple and pvp recipes affordable for a change... Not all of us have been playing for years and have tons of purpled out characters.
It's not supposed to be easy to 'purple out' a character. It is intended to be a goal that requires significant investment of time & effort. I know some very hard core players. Not one of them have "tons of purpled out characters".

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It's a struggle for newer players like myself to finish a solid build.
You don't need purples or PvP IO's to have a solid IO build.

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I've been playing for less than 6 months, and about 90% of the inf I have at all times goes towards building up one single character. The prices on some purple sets and PVP procs are absolutely absurd.
I've been playing for over 3 years and have three characters that I would call 'purpled out'. You want the absolute best loot in the game. It is not going to be easy or effortless to get. The problem here rests entirely with your expectations..

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy View Post
That's true, but many of the builds I'm working towards do require them in order to be as efficient as I'd like them to be.
So, basically you want top tier builds kitted out with the best possible loot, but don't want to put in the effort to get them..

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There is absolutely no need for purple and pvp recipes to be so expensive. It's not like it would break the game if purple sets were accessible...
Why does the concept of VERY-RARE seem to be so hard for some players to grasp?


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen View Post
Why does the concept of VERY-RARE seem to be so hard for some players to grasp?
This sounds like a job for market clip art!


 

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You really need to fix the Coercive Persuasion frame of that gif. My brain twitches every time it snaps up one pixel from all the others.


@Roderick

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roderick View Post
You really need to fix the Coercive Persuasion frame of that gif. My brain twitches every time it snaps up one pixel from all the others.
fix it for me.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by EmperorSteele View Post
Well, the Devs INTEND for these things to be rare.

For instance, i don't know if you know this, but if you do 5 tip missions a day, and an alignment mission every 2 days, you can build up A-Merits (As long as you're strictly a hero or villain). You can trade A-merits for purple recipes. However, you need a MONTHS WORTH of a-merits to get one. So if the fastest the devs want people getting purples is roughly once a month, the high market prices are somewhat justified.
Yeah, I know all about that. I've been doing all 5 a day on two characters, saving half of them for a Gladiator's Armor proc for a couple of weeks now and using the other half on recipe rolls to resell.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen View Post
It's not supposed to be easy to 'purple out' a character. It is intended to be a goal that requires significant investment of time & effort. I know some very hard core players. Not one of them have "tons of purpled out characters".
Maybe we've come across very different players, because during my time in the game the players I've met with the most expensive builds have also explained to me the time required playing the market and farming, and giving me useful tips, but they're to the point where they can buy purple recipes in bulk whenever the prices drop a bit, craft and repost for billions more. Once you have the capital accumulated through years of playing, it's easy to make more.

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I've been playing for over 3 years and have three characters that I would call 'purpled out'. You want the absolute best loot in the game. It is not going to be easy or effortless to get. The problem here rests entirely with your expectations..
Please don't think that I'm not willing to work on my characters... Like I said, I go to pretty tremendous lengths to work on my characters.
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So, basically you want top tier builds kitted out with the best possible loot, but don't want to put in the effort to get them..
Did you not read what I said initially? I DO spend a lot of effort on it! I grind AE to the ticket cap once a day if not more. I always do 5 tips a day on at least my main and more often than not on another character also. That's on top of working towards my tier 4 incarnates and trying to work on new characters. The grinding aspect starts to feel like a chore.

Heck, I made an alt on Freedom the other day and those people were charging other people to run AE with them. Personally if I'm doing it anyways on my small server and someone asks to join I always say yes. It's a testament to the inflation in the game that people need to go to crazy lengths like charging their fellow players to do something they were going to do anyways.

Quote:
Why does the concept of VERY-RARE seem to be so hard for some players to grasp?
I understand the concept perfectly, the reason I posted in this thread is that I was optimistic about things becoming more accessible. Like I said, grinding is just not fun or appealing and it doesn't even seem like it's good for the game.


 

Posted

You could try running a few TFs, and do a bunch of random rolls in the 35-39 range. You'll have a chance at LoTG and Kinetic Combat recipes which are worth several million a piece and will help you save up the money for the purples.

Do some I-Raids and select Super inspirations as your reward and sell those off. The Ultimate ones (+1 level shift for 90 seconds) are going for a pretty penny.

In short, find ways to make money and go after them =)


-STEELE =)


Allied to all sides so that no matter what, I'll come out on top!
Oh, and Crimson demands you play this arc-> Twisted Knives (MA Arc #397769)

 

Posted

TwoHeadedBoy:

You're doing it wrong.

I've burnt pretty near all my inf -turned it into Prestige- and I'm going to have a billion inf again within two weeks; maybe within one. It's not that we start with these tremendous reserves of inf; we start with more knowledge and that's really it.

To oversimplify, let's say I can double my inf every time and I start with a million. 1MM, 2MM, 4MM... In 7 sets of transactions I'm at 128 million, in 10 sets of transactions I'm at a billion. In actual fact some of them are "spend 5 million, sell for 35 million" and some are "spend 100 million, sell for 150 million", but double is probably a pretty good guess.

You want to get rich or you want to complain?


Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.

So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.

 

Posted

Quote:
So, basically you want top tier builds kitted out with the best possible loot, but don't want to put in the effort to get them..
This is kind of a lame argument because many of us on this board put a lot less effort than most players to get our goodies. The whole 5 tips a day advice? That's already way too much work for me.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy View Post
There is absolutely no need for purple and pvp recipes to be so expensive. It's just an opportunity for old players to profit off of new players.
There is. You just reject it. That's not the same as it being wrong.

They're expensive because they're produced very infrequently. They're produced very infrequently because the devs want them to be hard to obtain. They are the "stretch goal" in a build. I use purples often, and yet I will tell people often that, for most builds, you can probably get at least 90% of the performance benefit of the build omitting the purples.

That last few percent of performance gain, while tangible, is specifically not meant to be priced in a way that matches the value it provides compared to the rest of an otherwise solid build. The return on investment is much, much lower, because it's there specifically for the people who will pursue it almost no matter what the cost. It's meant as a long term goal for people who are happy to pursue long term goals. The good news is that if they do that and you don't, they still don't end up radically higher performing than you do.


Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihilii View Post
This is kind of a lame argument because many of us on this board put a lot less effort than most players to get our goodies. The whole 5 tips a day advice? That's already way too much work for me.
"Effort" does not have to mean farming or other combat activities. Using the market once you have the know-how is easy, but you need to spend "effort" obtaining and applying that know-how. The inf/time result can be much higher than farming and the like, but there is still some degree of "effort" up front to get there. Very loosely we could compare it to scraping up off-market to build a strong farming build. Once you get there, farming becomes easy. The hard part was building a good farmer to start with.


Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by EmperorSteele View Post
You could try running a few TFs, and do a bunch of random rolls in the 35-39 range. You'll have a chance at LoTG and Kinetic Combat recipes which are worth several million a piece and will help you save up the money for the purples.

Do some I-Raids and select Super inspirations as your reward and sell those off. The Ultimate ones (+1 level shift for 90 seconds) are going for a pretty penny.

In short, find ways to make money and go after them =)
I try to do the WST once a week. I always use the 35-39 recipe roll for AE tickets and alignment merits. I spend enough of time in game grinding for inf, I'm not going to let it effect my incarnate rewards too. I do trials to work on my t4's.


Quote:
TwoHeadedBoy:

You're doing it wrong.

I've burnt pretty near all my inf -turned it into Prestige- and I'm going to have a billion inf again within two weeks; maybe within one. It's not that we start with these tremendous reserves of inf; we start with more knowledge and that's really it.

To oversimplify, let's say I can double my inf every time and I start with a million. 1MM, 2MM, 4MM... In 7 sets of transactions I'm at 128 million, in 10 sets of transactions I'm at a billion. In actual fact some of them are "spend 5 million, sell for 35 million" and some are "spend 100 million, sell for 150 million", but double is probably a pretty good guess.

You want to get rich or you want to complain?
What exactly am I doing wrong? I've tried the approach of buying cheap recipes in bulk like some of the LOTG pieces and Scirocco's Dervish, crafting them and selling them for more... It was working alright for a while but it was taking up all my market slots on like 10 different alts, they were moving very slowly, the price kept dropping, and I got sick of spending so much inf up front and having it be tied up for a week. So I went back to AE and running tips.


 

Posted

The first billion is always the most difficult. Seriously. Unless you get really lucky with some drops and sales you will have a slow time reaching that one billion influence/infamy number. Once you do you can move on to buying up some more expensive recipes and posting for high profits. I've been solely buying, crafting, and selling purples/PvP IOs for the past month. I hit one billion after about 3 weeks of 15 minute a day transactions on one character. I'm now up to 6 billion after 2 more weeks. I'm hoarding inf for no reason other than the fact that I can.

So basically, my advice to anyone who would listen (which would probably be no one) would be to stick it out till you hit a billion and then go from there.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubby View Post
So basically, my advice to anyone who would listen (which would probably be no one) would be to stick it out till you hit a billion and then go from there.
Agreed. Let the first billion make your second before you decide to spend anything.


 

Posted

I think 20/30 e-merits is probably right. You can acquire an E-merit in about 1/2 the time a HAM/VAM takes, plus you can get 2 a day. That sounds like about the spread they'd give as a bonus for grouping.

OTOH, it could be less, simply because they want those bigger rewards to be more attainable for Incarnates who are playing end-game content. But since they're tradeable...


 

Posted

Here's what I generally look at:

* Max level
* Orange recipe that "someone would use"
* Good spread between recipe/crafted AND low number of crafted for sale.
* Only work around 5 of the same IO at one time, with 2-3 niches on a character.
* I usually go for either the most-desired item in a less desired set, or the second-best item in a highly desired set, but that's personal choice. [Miracle: Heal/Rech is not as desired as Miracle: Recovery, but people who are going for a set bonus will frequently jump on the Heal/Rech or the Heal next. On the other hand, people only slot Serendipity because they want another Def/End or something, so you go for the Def/End as The One That Moves. These are not really high-profit examples, necessarily. ]

This is heavily slanted towards my playstyle, which is "hop on 2-3 times a day to flip stuff around." A watched pot is my pot. On the other hand if you were running 100-200 market slots you shouldn't have a problem running 20-50 on a couple of guys.

Go ahead, check Pool C. I'm going to tell you right now that there's at least one recipe that sells for 2 million where the crafted sells for 35 million. At the moment.

EDIT: This is a response to TwoHeadedBoy, post #37.


Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.

So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.

 

Posted

Well the open beta is here. Someone on the forums posted that recipe prices are 40 E Merits for a Purple and 50-70 for a PvPIO. So it looks like the conversion is 1 Alignment Merit = 2 E Merits.


 

Posted

32 Astrals for a Pool C/D Recipe, and 16 for a Pool A/B.


Deamus the Fallen - 50 DM/EA Brute - Lib
Dragos Bahtiam - 50 Fire/Ice Blaster - Lib
/facepalm - Apply Directly to the Forehead!
Formally Dragos_Bahtiam - Abbreviate to DSL - Warning, may contain sarcasm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shubbie View Post
Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.

 

Posted

Quite, I'm ok mostly with where the purples lies. I suspect that it'll be quite some time before [many] people start using their E-Merits for either Purples or PvPIOs anyway given the current costs of the ascension armor pieces. That said, stuff can change, and I may simply be overvaluing the desirability of the costume pieces. Or just plain old projecting my personal plans .

I'm cautious about the Astral Merit cost for some of those IOs. 32 Astral Merits for a LotG/Recharge is very nice. That's something I'd be willing to burn a few astral merits on when it goes live.


Let's Dance!

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood View Post
Well the open beta is here. Someone on the forums posted that recipe prices are 40 E Merits for a Purple and 50-70 for a PvPIO. So it looks like the conversion is 1 Alignment Merit = 2 E Merits.
Hmmm, that's pretty cheap....

Dammit, I don't wanna do any more trials! (weeps)


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by UberGuy View Post
That last few percent of performance gain, while tangible, is specifically not meant to be priced in a way that matches the value it provides compared to the rest of an otherwise solid build. The return on investment is much, much lower, because it's there specifically for the people who will pursue it almost no matter what the cost. It's meant as a long term goal for people who are happy to pursue long term goals. The good news is that if they do that and you don't, they still don't end up radically higher performing than you do.
Arcanaville made the same point about the T4 vs the T3 Incarnate enhancements, the T4 is only a bit more effective then the T3, which has the very important level shift, but takes about 4x the effort to get. Purples and T4s and such are "pursuit" items, so that people who will work hard to get the last little bit of performance have something to chase, while those who don't want to work that hard aren't completely left in the dust. I do purples mainly on characters who may exemp a fair amount, so still want their recharge bonuses at low levels.

Regarding the not terribly expensive Astral merit prices for LotGs and such, remember they are also putting in a system to email vouchers for these things back and forth to your other characters, so there will be some competing mechanisms to burn up these Astrals besides recipe buying. A lot of people, either through inclination or odd play times, find it easier to solo Alignment missions. In fact, frankly I've been surprised LotG recipe prices didn't drop more when AMs came out. So I predict not a huge impact on recipe prices from these, though there might be a brief dip as people who never figured out the AM system but did Trials convert some Astrals to recipes and don't have to buy them. Many of those couldn't afford market prices on the desirable stuff anyway, though.


 

Posted

The current prices on beta

32 astrals = 1 lotg+7.5 or Numina +regen/+recovery against 200 merits or 2 Hero Merits.

It looks like tip missions are still the winner for these.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scientist View Post
In fact, frankly I've been surprised LotG recipe prices didn't drop more when AMs came out. So I predict not a huge impact on recipe prices from these, though there might be a brief dip as people who never figured out the AM system but did Trials convert some Astrals to recipes and don't have to buy them. Many of those couldn't afford market prices on the desirable stuff anyway, though.
I imagine that's mostly a side effect of people using AM's to get LOTG's for themselves (usually several in a given build) and picking other things to market when they want to turn AMs into other FakeMoneyUnits.

At least that's my approach, I don't grind any one set of given content enough to really turn it into a niche or anything - I mostly use AMs to get what I want for builds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by B_L_Angel View Post
The current prices on beta

32 astrals = 1 lotg+7.5 or Numina +regen/+recovery against 200 merits or 2 Hero Merits.

It looks like tip missions are still the winner for these.
I dunno. A decent trial run can garner, what, like 5-ish merits? We have 3 trials now, so hypothetically in 1 run each you could be just under halfway there. For those of us who are bothered by repetition and somewhat patient, iTrials might be, if not more effective, at least more interesting. I guess it's a matter of taste, but I just seem to roll through the various options for getting shiny and fake money units - the idea of the "fastest" way is rarely my primary motivator.

NTTIAWWT.

Any pricing on the Unobtainium grade stuff? Purples/PvPs? Again, I'd probably reserve those for my own use, but I'm curious all the same.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MayorOfAngrytown View Post
Any pricing on the Unobtainium grade stuff? Purples/PvPs? Again, I'd probably reserve those for my own use, but I'm curious all the same.
Purples are 40 Emp merits a piece for all sets.
PvPs are 50-70. The important ones are listed below:

Glad Armor +3 - 60
Shield Wall +3, Panacea Proc, Fury of the Gladiator -res - 70
Everything else falls in the 50-60 range, depending upon drop rates.