Cap AV Resistance at 95%


AzureSkyCiel

 

Posted

Okay, yeah, I can be gripey. There's a lot of things I post about when I don't like 'em. But when I'm playing, I'm generally more upbeat and open-minded than I am on the forums. However, there's one thing that freaking bugs me, to the point of being a major annoyance, even in-game, so bear with me, I gotta lay it out:

What, exactly, is the point of making enemies entirely immune to one or more forms of damage? Particularly, the forms of damage that players will most commonly be using? This has been around, granted, since time immemorial (at least i1, based on the powers I've seen), but it drives me absolutely nuts. Giving Unstoppable to an AV and making them immune to damage doesn't seem to accomplish anything other than making a fight three minutes longer. It doesn't add any sort of challenge; if the AV wasn't acting as a serious threat before going Unstoppable, then it's no more of a threat afterwards. Heck, it's practically the opposite. If my end's running low, it's a perfect time to fall back and Rest, since attacking or ignoring them will have the same ultimate result.

...and yeah, Marauder was the straw that finally broke the camel's back here. I was on a Lambda raid last night that spent as much time just sitting and waiting for his Unstoppable to end as we spent on the entire rest of the fight. He's not the only one, though. There are a good number of others that suffer this same issue, Honoree and Reichsman to name just a couple, and they're just as un-fun.

So it comes down to what's on the subject line: provide a hard, less-than-100% cap to enemy resistance. 95% seems fair, but, heck, I'd be fine with 99. Just give us something outside of a reason to go afk for several minutes.

So all this is "gimme, gimme, gimme", I admit. I'm asking for the tedium to be taken away from AVs, but I offer them nothing in return? Well, I do have a suggestion there, too.

It seems like the (missed) point of adding Unstoppable is to give an extra level of challenge at the 11th hour, and that's certainly a cool idea. However, as noted, it just makes them tedious in the end, not challenging. So here's my suggestion: all AVs with Unstoppable? Just replace the power. With Rage. Most Invulnerability AVs conveniently have Super-Strength as well, so it stays thematic, and I think a boost to offensive capabilities would be a much bigger "oh crap!" for most teams as well, really. Alternatively, give some sort of -Special aura power that weakens buffs around them for the duration. That could give them sort of a rising-to-the-occasion, you're-tough-but-I'm-tougher feel. Either one would be an effective way to turn a stomp into an uphill battle without just making it feel like the intent is to sit around and wait for the battle to end.


 

Posted

Yeah, most AVs just wind up being 'Wait till they crash and then gank them' AhemVALKYRIEahem!

They don't even do particularly scary damage on most teams these days.
Rage, now? Or a scaling 'lower the health the higher the damage' auto power, which might work better.
I say this as a Bots MM who gets one shotted by most AVs anyway, mind


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Posted

Agreed, 100% resists just wastes time without adding anything to the fight. If there were some in-game way to strip them of the buff then I could see the point.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha View Post
Rage, now? Or a scaling 'lower the health the higher the damage' auto power, which might work better.
I suggested Rage since it serves more like a "limit break" style power up rather than a gradual build up, which seems to be along the same theme that's intended with Unstoppable. But a slowly scaling power might be a little less mean to some people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilGeko View Post
Agreed, 100% resists just wastes time without adding anything to the fight. If there were some in-game way to strip them of the buff then I could see the point.
Yeah, I have basically no problem with the whole "gather grenades, use grenades" strategy for Marauder, and wouldn't have so much of a problem with it on Reichsy if it didn't require using specific ATs. Giving the resources to deal with problem-powers adds to strategy, and thus, to the general enjoyment of the fight.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilGeko View Post
Agreed, 100% resists just wastes time without adding anything to the fight. If there were some in-game way to strip them of the buff then I could see the point.
Especially since having 100% resistance means 100% protection from resistance debuffs. Not only are they immune to damage, they can't be made vulnerable. Anything below 100% would be workable.


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Posted

Well, for those who hit the 100% resist, isn't it only Lethal (maybe Smashing) damage only?

I'd be more okay with this 100% Lethal resist, if they threw in some enemies who had 100% Energy or Fire Resist, so my Lethal Damage scrapper can go \o/ I'm here to take down the baddie for you!


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandX View Post
Well, for those who hit the 100% resist, isn't it only Lethal (maybe Smashing) damage only?

I'd be more okay with this 100% Lethal resist, if they threw in some enemies who had 100% Energy or Fire Resist, so my Lethal Damage scrapper can go \o/ I'm here to take down the baddie for you!
if marauder is enraged and unstoppable then he is 100% immune to all dmg except psi which is at like ~95%


 

Posted

He could hit 100% before Lambda, but I agree that 100% is a little ridiculous when you put a Master Of badge behind it.


 

Posted

Either the enrage or his unstoppable will put him at 100% smashing/lethal resist on their own. It wasn't such a big deal until I20 because you just wait for it to wear off. But now in the Lambda trial there's not one but two badges which require you to leave him enraged for the whole fight. Which in turn renders most scrappers as well as some sets in every other AT except controllers utterly powerless to do anything to contribute. So much for bringing the player and not the AT, huh?


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Necrotech_Master View Post
if marauder is enraged and unstoppable then he is 100% immune to all dmg except psi which is at like ~95%
Ooooo...really. Now I don't feel so bad about the lethal damage!


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Posted

It would be nice to incorporate a more animative or emotional response, especially with all the "Rarr <insertnamehere> is mad, I smash" and nothing happens. I like that Marauder jumps about after a while, it would be nice if this was randomized as it loses purpose after many runs.

Perhaps they could add a Fury bar like Brutes whereby Damage increases as Health decreases, a sort of maddening effect for villains or a last stand effect for Heroes.

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Posted

I don't think there's anything wrong with a 100% resist cap if it's used creatively. Just having 100% to nearly all for 3 minutes when already low on health...yeah, that's pretty pointless.


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Posted

I like Technobot Alpha's idea. As the Hero/AV gets weaker, the more damage they do. I think some form +ACC would be good too. There's no point in having +DMG if the Granite Tank (or any other defense-based set) is stood there going "Can't touch this!"


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Posted

Agreed, a 95% resist cap for AVs would be grand.

I do get sick and tired of large numbers of AVs 100% resistance to Smashing/Lethal or atleast resisting it uber-heavily.

As someones said above, I wouldn't mind if there was variety and some AVs were 100% resistant to fire etc. but it is ALWAYS Smashing/lethal which frankly neuters more powersets across a large number of ATs than any other resistance.

I imagine Mother Mayhem, when we fight her, might be like a reverse Marauder, Highly resistant to Psi but weak against smashing/lethal (like Carnies).


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Posted

A Rage-like timed damage (and maybe even recharge) boost would be good, but not the to-hit bonus.

The devs have already spent way too much effort on crippling any Defense based powerset to then go and add an additional +20% to-hit on top of that.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Necrotech_Master View Post
if marauder is enraged and unstoppable then he is 100% immune to all dmg except psi which is at like ~95%
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Posted

Personally, I happen to find 100% resistances to be a cheap and unimaginative approach to enemy design. All this does is say "You there who only have lethal damage. Go sit down, have a sandwich, watch some TV and come back later." It reminds me of ye olde Hamidon raids where I was told that, at this particular time, I could contribute nothing to the fight and should just wait a while.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
Personally, I happen to find 100% resistances to be a cheap and unimaginative approach to enemy design. All this does is say "You there who only have lethal damage. Go sit down, have a sandwich, watch some TV and come back later." It reminds me of ye olde Hamidon raids where I was told that, at this particular time, I could contribute nothing to the fight and should just wait a while.
I agree with Sam here, i'll agree with Techbot's suggestion, and I'll /sign the OP.
Though personally I think we should take it father and possibly cap AV resists at 80% given how AVs already tend to have enormous amounts of HP and higher modifiers than player ATs.


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Posted

Frankly, I think AVs should have their AI tweaked - consider Protean, for example. He's not particularly powerful in terms of raw stats, but he does have a trick up his sleeve that makes him much more of a problem if a team just mashes on him like any other AV. Giving other AVs {and GMs because why not?} similar requirements for, well, alertness would make them that much more interesting to fight.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rapthorn View Post
I like Technobot Alpha's idea. As the Hero/AV gets weaker, the more damage they do. I think some form +ACC would be good too. There's no point in having +DMG if the Granite Tank (or any other defense-based set) is stood there going "Can't touch this!"
well marauder does have a slight way to get by this with his nova fist power which does unresistable dmg although it is kind of easy to avoid

+tohit would prolly be better than capped resistances


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandX View Post
Ooooo...really. Now I don't feel so bad about the lethal damage!
that in of itself is the main cause of the angst with the lambda sector side badges (well stocked, antacid, lambda looter) because they made it so you have to deal with him like this on 3 separate runs

pretty much the only way to really deal with this is a LOT of debuff and a LOT of psi dmg (as FW mentions the seer core superior ally makes this a heckuva lot easier)


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quinch View Post
Frankly, I think AVs should have their AI tweaked - consider Protean, for example. He's not particularly powerful in terms of raw stats, but he does have a trick up his sleeve that makes him much more of a problem if a team just mashes on him like any other AV. Giving other AVs {and GMs because why not?} similar requirements for, well, alertness would make them that much more interesting to fight.
To be honest, I don't think the effective equivalent to quick-time events is a good solution to AI fights. Once or twice as a gimmick, maybe, as it is with Protean that's fine. I mean, he uses his Power Syphon at most once every minute. Now take the fight with the dual Virgil Durays. There is an Airstrike going ALL THE ******* TIME!!! And Fusion and Jane aren't any better. If one isn't rumbling the other is pulsing CONSTANTLY.

Far as I'm concerned, typical platformer boss stages would be what I'd envision as proper encounter design. Seer 0001 in Praetoria kind of has that. You fight her, then she vanishes and sends in TEST, then you fight her some more. MegaMan games are pretty good about this. As bosses get damaged, they develop new attacks and their existing attacks become more complex, they shift forms, they swap locations and so on.

I've always wanted to see, say, a Nemesis encounter where you start out fighting him, then he runs off and sends soldiers after you and closes a breakable door, then you have to fight him with PFF on that you have to break down generators to bring down, only when he goes down to 50% he turns them back on and summons more soldiers. That sort of thing. I'm not sure how capable the game is of handling this, but that's how I envision a cool AV fight, not a series of quick-time events.


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