So now CoH is a "raiding" game.
By
Acroyear2,
Posted on: 2011-05-05 08:43 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Most of the recent ones I've played seem to be set up like CoH honestly. Very much solo-friendly but also having group-required content (dungeons and the like) which provides look/rewards superior to what you can reasonably be assumed to acquire through soloing. Either that or it provides that sort of reward faster than soloing would.|
Originally Posted by Bull Throttle
Heh, have you played any other MMO than this in the past couple of years?
Most of the recent ones seem to see teaming as very much optional. |
Most end-games I've seen likewise involve group-based content.
MA Arcs: Yarmouth 1509 and 58812
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Soloing is not the default option of an MMO
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Like hell. Or did I miss an interface that dropped me into the tutorial on a team?
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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It's already starting to calm down - it's a part of the game now, and just like all the other new systems, it'll just blend into the the older stuff, and just become another fetaure.
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Originally Posted by Death_Badger
The gnashing of teeth over the two trials is ridiculous.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Okay. That doesn't make the Incarnate System "the game" though, does it? Because that's exactly what Eiko said.|
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
No... That's not what's being said.
Eiko isn't saying the rest of the game is irrelevant. Merely that using what the rest of the game is like in this argument is irrelevant. HOWEVER, currently, if you wish to progress with the post-50 advancement system, you're locked into a single path right now with no viable options. |
(Eiko also said a lot of other things that had absolutely nothing to do with my post, and doesn't seem to want to comment on them.)
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Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Like hell. Or did I miss an interface that dropped me into the tutorial on a team?
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My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
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That's Pavlovian response for you. Some people have been involuntarily conditioned to automatically reject anything that resembles a "raid" in any MMO. It does not matter how the actual raid itself is structured or designed, the fact that it feel like a raid is enough for them to rail against it without mercy. Maybe it was due to previous unpleasant experiences with raids. Or perhaps it was due to the fact that they weren't able to participate in them before due to time/playstyle constraints. Who knows.
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Originally Posted by Death_Badger
The gnashing of teeth over the two trials is ridiculous. Some people will complain about anything. The raiding here is fast and fun, its nothing like WoW et al, absolutely as far as could be from raiding in those games.
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This.|
Originally Posted by Celestial_Lord
You still have all the non-Incarnate content available. The developers have taken nothing away from you. And even then, only the Alpha slot level shift can be used outside of the Incarnate trials.
Really, all this crying about not being able to get Incarnate abilities outside of running the Incarnate trials is sounding like, "I want to have my cake and eat it too." Most of the Incarnate abilities are for the Incarnate trials. You can still run level 50 missions or a Lady Grey Task Force without having a Tier 4 Destiny or Lore just fine. |
Not to mention, if all they want is to obtain the Incarnate abilities, while yes slower, they're still obtainable without doing a single raid.
It's not that hard to obtain 10 Shards a day and convert them to threads.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
I see no problem here, if you don't want to raid, you don't have too, it's a choice, we can still form 8 man teams, do tf and Tips, we can make our own Content as well now with AE. We all get more out of this game with the incarnate lvl content and other stuff like Switching too a Hero to Villein. We get everything now but a good Pvp System and still you don't feel happy with the game.
Never play another NcSoft game, If you feel pride for our game, then it as well, I Superratz am Proud of all of you Coh people, Love, Friendship will last for a lifetime.
Global:@Greenflame Ratz
Main Toons:Super Ratz, Burning B Radical, Green Flame Avenger, Tunnel Ratz, Alex Magnus
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Wow. We're so fortunate to have an official spokesman from The Fun Police here to tell us what we are and are not allowed to desire in recreation. All these years, I thought I was paying subscriptions to play what and how I liked, I had no idea I was paying to be permitted to enjoy only those things you deem Acceptable Gaming Activities.|
Originally Posted by je_saist
We don't have to put words into your mouth.
You are complaining that there is no solo-progression. Fine. This is Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game. The developers do not have to provide a solo option for anything. The developers SHOULD not have to provide a solo option for everything. The developers SHOULD not have to rework their development plans to accommodate whiny and obnoxious players. Let me be clear. The developers have already stated, very explicitly, that methods are in development to enable additional methods of incarnate progression You, and many other players, are whining like weedwackers because those methods are not yet implemented. You, and many other players, are for some reason hung up on the idea that the Trails are all there is, and there ever will be. You, and many other players, are for some reason hung up on the idea that you are entitled to play the game your way, and how you like. Let me clue you in. You. Are Not. Now do the rest of the forums and the game a favor, knock the whining off. |
Do you have any helpful instruction on what I should desire in books, music, or movies? I'd hate to hope for something and learn it's an item on your Forbidden List.
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It's je_saist. Just ignore it.
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Originally Posted by paynesgrey
Wow. We're so fortunate to have an official spokesman from The Fun Police here to tell us what we are and are not allowed to desire in recreation. All these years, I thought I was paying subscriptions to play what and how I liked, I had no idea I was paying to be permitted to enjoy only those things you deem Acceptable Gaming Activities.
Do you have any helpful instruction on what I should desire in books, music, or movies? I'd hate to hope for something and learn it's an item on your Forbidden List. |
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
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Yet solo-friendly is something so many MMO's... including CoX... have found to be an attractive feature that makes them money, lets them keep a larger player base. I think it's fair to say that more people would quit an MMO because they couldn't solo when they felt like it than would quit because they knew that somewhere out there, other players were soloing and having fun instead of playing in a group all the time. I mean, how many people ragequit and leave with a post along the lines of "I saw this level 50 guy today in Wentworths, and I don't think he hardly ever teamed or did a raid! People shouldn't oughta be allowed to solo too much! I quit!!!"|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Soloing is not the default option of an MMO
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I've read the devs might possibly, if they get around to it, maybe perhaps consider expanding Incarnate to make it more useful for solo and small group players like myself, my wife and our friends, if that's the case then I'll be quite thrilled. Do a happy dance. Get that feeling of anticipation and excitement like when Going Rogue came out. So yeah, I'll credit it when it happens. But in the meantime, it's like paying for a cable subscription for XYZ months before the installers arrive to actually hook you up. "It'll have a whole big buncha channels if we ever get your neighborhood connected...."
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Thing is, Je_saist has a point.|
Originally Posted by paynesgrey
Yet solo-friendly is something so many MMO's... including CoX... have found to be an attractive feature that makes them money, lets them keep a larger player base. I think it's fair to say that more people would quit an MMO because they couldn't solo when they felt like it than would quit because they knew that somewhere out there, other players were soloing and having fun instead of playing in a group all the time. I mean, how many people ragequit and leave with a post along the lines of "I saw this level 50 guy today in Wentworths, and I don't think he hardly ever teamed or did a raid! People shouldn't oughta be allowed to solo too much! I quit!!!"
I've read the devs might possibly, if they get around to it, maybe perhaps consider expanding Incarnate to make it more useful for solo and small group players like myself, my wife and our friends, if that's the case then I'll be quite thrilled. Do a happy dance. Get that feeling of anticipation and excitement like when Going Rogue came out. So yeah, I'll credit it when it happens. But in the meantime, it's like paying for a cable subscription for XYZ months before the installers arrive to actually hook you up. "It'll have a whole big buncha channels if we ever get your neighborhood connected...." |
People are whining, when the devs have already stated there are plans to add what they're whining about.
They just aren't implemented yet. However, this is of course not good enough for them.
As of now, anything one needs the Incarnate Abilities for, is team required content, so the fact that it's slow to obtain, shouldn't really be that big of a problem.
You don't need Tier 4 Destiny/Lore (or even Tier 1) for non incarnate level 50 game play.
You don't even need Tier 1 Alpha!
It's all obtainable however for the solo player, it's just slower.
For those who don't want to raid, but are okay with teaming, then run level 50 content TFs (ITF, LGTF, Apex, Tin Mage, LRSF...ect) and you can obtain at least the level 1 Incarnate abilities easy enough.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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Oh look. je_saist has said something, and every bit of it is wrong. Shocking. And in other news, water is wet.
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Originally Posted by je_saist
We don't have to put words into your mouth.
[SNIP] |
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"Looking into" basically equates to: They are forming a committee to discuss the ramifications of leveraging team synergy into an action group to contemplate the possibility of at some point in the unspecified future meeting to brainstorm on the feasibility of adding a 1 in 1000 mob drop rate for Incarnate items.|
Originally Posted by Sardan
I believe last month's Producer's Letter contained vague language along the lines of "we've heard you about wanting solo options for Incarnate content and we're looking into it." So there's hope.
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Depending on the game. |
Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
The Trials are not raiding.
Raiding takes 1-5 hours a night, 5-7 nights a week. The trials take, at their very worst, an hour and a half to complete. |
Try a fortress raid in Aion some time. Yes, admittedly a PVPVE (truly - three sides to it) raid, but they didn't take *that* long. (Well, unless you count raiding for ... gah, I forget what they're called now, basically points on the map that give various buffs or offensive abilities. People will do those long before, or do a lightning strike to them just after the raid starts.)
About the closest we have to that is RV... and that's a very weak shadow of it.
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... I really wish I had more room in my signature.
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Originally Posted by Dark One
"Looking into" basically equates to: They are forming a committee to discuss the ramifications of leveraging team synergy into an action group to contemplate the possibility of at some point in the unspecified future meeting to brainstorm on the feasibility of adding a 1 in 1000 mob drop rate for Incarnate items.
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Thank you Bill. First time in seven years, iirc, someone has said that to me. |
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
... I really wish I had more room in my signature.
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Yoiks! Looks like Operative Vargas hacked your board account.
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Originally Posted by Dark One
"Looking into" basically equates to: They are forming a committee to discuss the ramifications of leveraging team synergy into an action group to contemplate the possibility of at some point in the unspecified future meeting to brainstorm on the feasibility of adding a 1 in 1000 mob drop rate for Incarnate items.
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"Misbegotten Moon"---Fighting stupidity with stupidity.
OP:
If you assume (without proof) that the Devs have decided that the entire Incarnate system is going to be nothing but large team raiding, I could see how you'd come to the conclusions you have.
The Devs haven't, up to this point, stated any such thing, however. In fact, they've been telling us lately that they're working on alternatives to what they've already given us, for those with your sensibilities.
It's up to you how patient you want to be, waiting for that new content, but please don't say that the end game is nothing but raiding, because that is just false. We haven't even seen half of what the entirety will be, to know one way or the other.
Loose --> not tight.
Lose --> Did not win, misplace, cannot find, subtract.
One extra 'o' makes a big difference.
This post is here to boost my participation in the thread, so I don't end up with 10 Threads when the thread ends.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Actually, no. |
Originally Posted by White Hot Flash
It's up to you how patient you want to be, waiting for that new content, but please don't say that the end game is nothing but raiding, because that is just false. We haven't even seen half of what the entirety will be, to know one way or the other.
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End game right now: Raiding.
Revealed end game (Keyes Island) : Raiding.
After that: Unknown. More raiding is, I believe, confirmed. "Alternate paths," small team/solo content is, at best, alluded to. The value of that really depends on your attitude towards the devs and things they've "worked on" and "looked at" prior to this.
So I can definitely see where they feel the end game system is just a series of raids. No, we don't know all of it, but if they see that and see what's officially announced, I can certainly understand being dismayed if it's all a type of gameplay they don't like.
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Honestly, man, I've played other MMO's (regretfully). What we have now is NOT Raiding. It doesn't even compare. Raiding is spending hours a night fighting through hordes of enemies and facing 5-10 big bosses who have more HP than you care to think about and require tactics so absurd one SINGLE misstep by one SINGLE player will destroy the chances of victory in 10 seconds or less.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Actually, no.
End game right now: Raiding. Revealed end game (Keyes Island) : Raiding. After that: Unknown. More raiding is, I believe, confirmed. "Alternate paths," small team/solo content is, at best, alluded to. The value of that really depends on your attitude towards the devs and things they've "worked on" and "looked at" prior to this. So I can definitely see where they feel the end game system is just a series of raids. No, we don't know all of it, but if they see that and see what's officially announced, I can certainly understand being dismayed if it's all a type of gameplay they don't like. |
What we have now isn't raiding. The term should not be used as a generalization. It would be like calling a Mustang a Formula 1 car. Yeah, at their core they serve the same purpose but one is way higher on the scale.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
This post is here to boost my participation in the thread, so I don't end up with 10 Threads when the thread ends.
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My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
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When, *if* solo/small group Incarnate content gets here, then I'll be happy. Thrilled. Delighted even. Until then, well, if you hold what's "being considered for implementation" in one hand, and rummage in the litter box with the other, guess which one fills up first?|
Originally Posted by BrandX
Thing is, Je_saist has a point.
People are whining, when the devs have already stated there are plans to add what they're whining about. They just aren't implemented yet. However, this is of course not good enough for them. As of now, anything one needs the Incarnate Abilities for, is team required content, so the fact that it's slow to obtain, shouldn't really be that big of a problem. You don't need Tier 4 Destiny/Lore (or even Tier 1) for non incarnate level 50 game play. You don't even need Tier 1 Alpha! It's all obtainable however for the solo player, it's just slower. For those who don't want to raid, but are okay with teaming, then run level 50 content TFs (ITF, LGTF, Apex, Tin Mage, LRSF...ect) and you can obtain at least the level 1 Incarnate abilities easy enough. |
In the meantime, solo and small group players are graciously permitted to farm Moss Snakes or learn to change their playstyle to City of Farmville.
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The first hand, because I'm not sticking my hand in a litterbox.|
Originally Posted by paynesgrey
When, *if* solo/small group Incarnate content gets here, then I'll be happy. Thrilled. Delighted even. Until then, well, if you hold what's "being considered for implementation" in one hand, and rummage in the litter box with the other, guess which one fills up first?
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Originally Posted by paynesgrey
In the meantime, solo and small group players are graciously permitted to farm Moss Snakes or learn to change their playstyle to City of Farmville.
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My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
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The devs have previously stated that the changes to PVP were simply the first stage in a larger plan, and that more changes and improvements would be added at a later time. They also stated that the changes to base salvage were merely the first step of a larger plan, and that more changes and improvements would follow. At no point have they stated that they ARE working on a realistic solo path for Incarnate slots, nor given any timeframe for it beyond "we're looking into ways to implement this at a later time." (And no, shards to threads to iXP and components is not realistic. Claiming that it is, is a lot like claiming that it's "realistic" for an average person to get from Manhattan to Tokyo without using any form of motorized transport. "Not completely impossible" is not the same thing as "realistic.")|
Originally Posted by White Hot Flash
OP:
If you assume (without proof) that the Devs have decided that the entire Incarnate system is going to be nothing but large team raiding, I could see how you'd come to the conclusions you have. The Devs haven't, up to this point, stated any such thing, however. In fact, they've been telling us lately that they're working on alternatives to what they've already given us, for those with your sensibilities. It's up to you how patient you want to be, waiting for that new content, but please don't say that the end game is nothing but raiding, because that is just false. We haven't even seen half of what the entirety will be, to know one way or the other. |
At THIS time, the only viable method is via large-scale team-only content. The only additional content that they have actually confirmed to be working on is also large-scale, team only content. Trying to claim otherwise is, at best, not being entirely honest.
I returned to CoH a week ago after playing other MMOs for several months.
COH is still a breath of fresh air, the instancing of content to allow total customisation of the difficulty is still a stroke of genius compared to trudging through shared zones fighting others for named spawns.
It still allows many different levelling paths unlike most games (you can group or solo from 1-50 or anything in between, and there is a wide variety of content with TFs, Trials, story arcs, tips, radio/paper missions, Architect etc.
It now has given me a reason to play my favourite L50s which only ever got brought out for special occasions. I have really enjoyed the incarnate system.
I just want to ask when exactly CoX had a focus on endgame for solo players which some people seem to think the devs have moved away from? Prior to the Going Rogue System there was nothing for 50s to do solo except grind endless mobs/missions. GR introduced a system which can be used to develop your character solo. The first slot of the Incarnate system can be obtained solo.
The gnashing of teeth over the two trials is ridiculous. Some people will complain about anything. The raiding here is fast and fun, its nothing like WoW et al, absolutely as far as could be from raiding in those games.