Pinnacle Server Lag - BAF Trial
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2011-04-26 16:44 in ALL ACCESS Gameplay Technical Issues Bugs
Quote:
What killed me (not literally - quite) on Virtue tonight wasn't the powers activating like I was in OG Hami or MSR environments, it was that when I hit my F-key to follow either Seige or Nightstar during that final battle, it took 3-4 seconds for my character to start moving.|
Originally Posted by GATE-keeper
We were in the "Fight Seige and Nightstar together" stage. We were fighting them at the add spawn point. Normal lag, powers executing 5 seconds after clicking them, standing around looking like statues, etc.
|
Failed raid. Really un-fun experience. Somebody put the server gerbils out of their misery.
My postings to this forum are not to be used as data in any research study without my express written consent.
its not just Pinncle its every server I am sure... they went down for extended maintenance and broke BAF, it used to just lag during the prison escape now it lags through the whole thing! Atop that they made is so nin run regularly doesn't work in either one.
Ok... just for my own edification: has anyone else been experiencing this sort of performance since I20 launch, not just after the patch this week?
This has been happening to me in the BAF since day one, and also occured to me during a Hami raid.
The patch actually made my general issues somewhat better, but did not alleviate the <1 FPS during large battles with many many PCs on the field at once.
Proud Member of Jagged Legion
you see me now a veteran of a thousand psychic wars
behind the clock back there you know at the 4 winds bar
a drug by the name of world without end
I only live to be reborn again
Yes its been happening since issue 20 launch and not just on the trials. We've always had lag like this on msrs, hamiraids, zone events with many players. But that lag we got as a whole has increased most likely due to all the new incarnate powers and the diminishing buffs from destiny powers. Ship raids are laggier than ever even when the zone isn't full. Bafs and lambdas got laggier as people unlocked more incarnate powers and since the recent patch the lag has increased. Either due to some unknown bug or the rest of the people that didn't have incarnate powers now have them.
I can't understand why this is allowed to continue in this current state. They need to put a halt on making additional trials and content until this is fixed or its just gonna be the same way on future incarnate trials. It's not fun to have to deal with this much client/network lag everytime you do a raid, zone event, or trial. 7+ seconds of power/animation lag is unacceptable.
Friends don't let friends buy an ncsoft controlled project.
Quote:
Just wanted to add that this was on Champion. |
Originally Posted by Celestial_Lord
When I logged on this evening, my SG leader invited me to join a BAF. It was a full BAF, three teams of eight each, including a few Masterminds. Just about everyone had Lore pets. My God, the lag was atrocious. It was worse than many Rikti mothership raids.
So, out of curiosity, I immediately formed up another BAF. Two teams, eight players each. That's one less team and eight less players than the BAF before. I told everyone not to summon nor use any pets whatsoever. Guess what? No lag. None whatsoever. This was with leaving the client open between the two BAFs, no rebooting, etc. So, apparently, to have a lag free BAF, you now have to limit it to a maximum of 16 players (two teams), and no pets. |
I lead the BAFs just prior to Celestial Lord's petless, smaller league size BAF experiment. The lag was so terrible in the first two runs that we experienced sudden jumps in the AVs HP. For example, one run both AVs were around 60% HP then dropped to 15%. When the health bars aren't being displayed accurately it is extremely difficult to complete a task based on coordinating teams to damage certain targets. A large number of people voiced their frustration and many quit the league, saying they did not wish to run any more BAFs until the lag improved.
Afterward, I joined Celestial Lord's BAF. While I don't think a single run proves anything one way or the other, from a subjective point of view the lag went from an unplayable level to nonexistent. I likely won't be excluding Masterminds from runs, but I will try to keep the league size down to two teams until the lag issue is resolved.
Leader of Renaissance de la Veritas
Moderator of ChampioNexus
Amygdala's Guide to the Cathedral of Pain Trial
Quote:
I missed a whole hospital cycle on one because my character couldn't move after getting up.
|
Originally Posted by EarthWyrm
What killed me (not literally - quite) on Virtue tonight wasn't the powers activating like I was in OG Hami or MSR environments, it was that when I hit my F-key to follow either Seige or Nightstar during that final battle, it took 3-4 seconds for my character to start moving.
Failed raid. Really un-fun experience. Somebody put the server gerbils out of their misery. |
Suggestions:
Super Packs Done Right
Influence Sink: IO Level Mod/Recrafting
Random Merit Rolls: Scale cost by Toon Level
Don't know if anyone else feels this way, but, with the lag as it is...
... For information I have all buffs turned off, I have deleted my combat tab, and I do trials with graphics set at the absolute minimum. I'm still seeing a 3 to 10 second lag between power activations and I am stuck in place unable to move for the same 3 to 5 seconds...
... back to what I was saying. The only real point for me to continue playing is for the new stuff, and with the lag as it is, I have absolutely no interest in playing the new stuff, which sadly means, that I'm finding myself not interested in playing at all.
This really, really, really, (how many times should I say really for someone to get the point?) needs to be fixed, the root of the problem needs to found and stamped out before they add a single new thing to the game. I personally would prefer that they take every developer off of whatever they are doing and make them all hunt it down, read and test every line of code, make the next issue the "We finally fixed the abysmal lag" issue, because, as it stands, it is just not acceptable.
I play on Virtue. Lag in the BAF, while always present, seems to have gotten much worse since the latest patch.
My characters at Virtueverse
Faces of the City
Quote:
QFE|
Originally Posted by Hube02
Don't know if anyone else feels this way, but, with the lag as it is...
... For information I have all buffs turned off, I have deleted my combat tab, and I do trials with graphics set at the absolute minimum. I'm still seeing a 3 to 10 second lag between power activations and I am stuck in place unable to move for the same 3 to 5 seconds... ... back to what I was saying. The only real point for me to continue playing is for the new stuff, and with the lag as it is, I have absolutely no interest in playing the new stuff, which sadly means, that I'm finding myself not interested in playing at all. This really, really, really, (how many times should I say really for someone to get the point?) needs to be fixed, the root of the problem needs to found and stamped out before they add a single new thing to the game. I personally would prefer that they take every developer off of whatever they are doing and make them all hunt it down, read and test every line of code, make the next issue the "We finally fixed the abysmal lag" issue, because, as it stands, it is just not acceptable. |
But it wont happen, 81+ months and as much as I seriously love this game I'm finding less and less reasons to stay.
The content is great, but it's running subpar. And the fact that most archtypes seem to be getting screwed on the drop scales just makes it worse. No wonder I havent ran up any MM's they are less then useless at this point.
'If Champions Online is what "CoH was supposed to be", I'm glad that I have what I have rather than "what it was supposed to be".' - The Alt oholic
"I solo'd Hamidon...but I also totally cheated." - Back Alley Brawler
"It is still early. Someone is going to get stabbed tonight I can feel it." - Ishmael (said in Jello Shooters chat)
Quote:
Before the patch, I'd put the lag at - 1-10 scale - 1-2 during the initial phase (not bad, barely noticable,) 6-7 during the escape phase, and maybe 4 at worst during the dual-AV phase. |
Originally Posted by OnyxPaladin
Ok... just for my own edification: has anyone else been experiencing this sort of performance since I20 launch, not just after the patch this week?
|
Now, it's pretty much all 8-9. At least after the initial nightstar fight (where I *think* it was OK, or not at an unexpected/surprising level.) 10 would be old-hami slideshow (3SPF - seconds per frame), but that would also need to have severe graphics lag added in. So this is a close second at this point.
It's worse if playing as a tank (which I was) - since there were long stretches where not only powers weren't recharging, but I couldn't MOVE, which could lead to everyone around me being sequestered.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Protonic_Flux
QFE
But it wont happen, 81+ months and as much as I seriously love this game I'm finding less and less reasons to stay. The content is great, but it's running subpar. And the fact that most archtypes seem to be getting screwed on the drop scales just makes it worse. No wonder I havent ran up any MM's they are less then useless at this point. |
I hear this. I appreciate the developers want to push the envelope and provide us with better content but its all for naught if its unplayable. Even when the BAF is playable there are parts that are pure frustration. During the prisoner escape its almost impossible to tell what powers are recharged. The same thing goes for the new warehouse maps that have so much clutter that even high end systems choke when panning.
Quote:
Something else that happens on the Lambda maps...|
Originally Posted by B_L_Angel
I hear this. I appreciate the developers want to push the envelope and provide us with better content but its all for naught if its unplayable. Even when the BAF is playable there are parts that are pure frustration. During the prisoner escape its almost impossible to tell what powers are recharged. The same thing goes for the new warehouse maps that have so much clutter that even high end systems choke when panning. |
When you actually open up your minimap to find your way around those godawful confusing messes, framerate drops immediately and stays even more horrible than it was with the map closed. Once the map is closed, it goes back a little towards being playable, but still pretty horrendous.
Ties in the with the clutter seen on 'em.
Quote:
It isn't "better" if it's unplayable. Good design takes the limitations of the system into account, and works within them. Giving us "more challenging" content but filling it up with so many lag-causing elements that it devolves into the mindless button-mashing we're supposed to be moving away from is counter-productive.
|
Originally Posted by B_L_Angel
I hear this. I appreciate the developers want to push the envelope and provide us with better content but its all for naught if its unplayable. |
Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
Quote:
/this. |
Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
It isn't "better" if it's unplayable. Good design takes the limitations of the system into account, and works within them. Giving us "more challenging" content but filling it up with so many lag-causing elements that it devolves into the mindless button-mashing we're supposed to be moving away from is counter-productive.
|
I've mentioned before - lag when we start getting more than, oh, a team and a half of people in one place doing something (as opposed to standing for a costume contest) is not new. It's part of why they redid Hami (the old slideshow) and limited the number of people in at a time. It's been mentioned for the mothership raid. It's commented on in Zombie and Rikti invasions.
Whatever it is in the code that bogs down the server (as they can't do much about graphics, given how some peoples' cards can handle more than others) with any sort of gathering should have been looked at *very* hard and worked on before we were given more multi-team raids. Give me a new sports car but forget to put air in the tires and I won't be very happy with that car...
On Liberty we had a fail because of bad lag. The UI for everyone participating showed we dropped both within a few seconds but they both got back up. I contacted support to see if there was anyway we could salvage the situation and got the response that the problem isn't on their end.
So my team loses out on rewards and and support is convinced the lag is my problem and seems to have nothing to do with the servers. Amazing since a massive number of players that keep reporting the lag in the BAF. But no, it's my problem.
How, exactly, are we supposed to run the trials when no one can move? I guess for now I'm done unless these are fixed. It's too frustrating otherwise.
Quote:
One thing that would help immensely, IMO, is to give the players a graphics suppression option that actually works and prevents said data from being sent to an individual client. There's so many power effects going off on, say, Siege and Nightstar, that actually SEEING anything beyond the effects is effectively nil.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
/this.
I've mentioned before - lag when we start getting more than, oh, a team and a half of people in one place doing something (as opposed to standing for a costume contest) is not new. It's part of why they redid Hami (the old slideshow) and limited the number of people in at a time. It's been mentioned for the mothership raid. It's commented on in Zombie and Rikti invasions. Whatever it is in the code that bogs down the server (as they can't do much about graphics, given how some peoples' cards can handle more than others) with any sort of gathering should have been looked at *very* hard and worked on before we were given more multi-team raids. Give me a new sports car but forget to put air in the tires and I won't be very happy with that car... |
You'd still see the power activation animation, but wouldn't see say, the graphics of 10 Fire Armor users Plasma & Fire Shields or half a dozen Dark Miasma users Shadow Falls.
Or possibly have a selectable graphics suppression option that prevents certain powersets from displaying their graphics. Set it up such that for Basic Suppression, everything is suppressed. If one clicks it over to Advanced, they get a list of all powersets in the game (not distinguished by AT) and let the user select which ones to suppress.
Quote:
BAF had always been a little laggy for me during the prisoner phase... but nothing like it is now. Since the patch went live it's gone from something that was simply annoying to a situation that makes the trial darn near unplayable... Which is sad to me, since prior to the lag issues I actively *liked* running that trial. It was fun.|
Originally Posted by OnyxPaladin
Ok... just for my own edification: has anyone else been experiencing this sort of performance since I20 launch, not just after the patch this week?
This has been happening to me in the BAF since day one, and also occured to me during a Hami raid. The patch actually made my general issues somewhat better, but did not alleviate the <1 FPS during large battles with many many PCs on the field at once. |
Since it's become a worse lag-fest than our Liberty mothership raids, it's just not much fun anymore.
@Brightfires - @Talisander
That chick what plays the bird-things...
Quote:
I have wanted this since CoV was released.|
Originally Posted by Dark One
One thing that would help immensely, IMO, is to give the players a graphics suppression option that actually works and prevents said data from being sent to an individual client. There's so many power effects going off on, say, Siege and Nightstar, that actually SEEING anything beyond the effects is effectively nil.
|
Quote:
| Or possibly have a selectable graphics suppression option that prevents certain powersets from displaying their graphics. Set it up such that for Basic Suppression, everything is suppressed. If one clicks it over to Advanced, they get a list of all powersets in the game (not distinguished by AT) and let the user select which ones to suppress. |
Edit: It would also help if the new powers were less graphically intensive on lower settings.
Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
Freedom is bad while doing BAF and Mothership raids. Broken features ftw!
The lag is so bad that I summon my pets for the prisioner escape base(the lore ones, the ones that last.. 5 minutes,you know?), and they are still around by the team we manage to beat up siege and NS at the same time.
This is not some minor lag, not lag like on the ITF where it had parts that it would get ugly. This is lag that is affecting EVERYONE, they can type, they get normal typing time, but people cant move or use powers effectively. Making it longer and more frustrating.
Quote:
Ok if they really told you that then someone at customer service really is a moron.
|
Originally Posted by Bashere
On Liberty we had a fail because of bad lag. The UI for everyone participating showed we dropped both within a few seconds but they both got back up. I contacted support to see if there was anyway we could salvage the situation and got the response that the problem isn't on their end.
So my team loses out on rewards and and support is convinced the lag is my problem and seems to have nothing to do with the servers. Amazing since a massive number of players that keep reporting the lag in the BAF. But no, it's my problem. How, exactly, are we supposed to run the trials when no one can move? I guess for now I'm done unless these are fixed. It's too frustrating otherwise. |
Friends don't let friends buy an ncsoft controlled project.
Ok, I ran three BAFs on Virtue tonight.
12 man: No Lag
19 man: minimal lag
24 man: slideshow level lag
So it looks like forming BAFs in the 12-16 range should be reasonably lag free (I recommend not pushing much beyond 16 in case you pick up extras from the queue).
I attended a Hamidon raid on Champion today and the lag was beyond description. I opened the Resource Monitor and saw that CoH was receiving around 50,000 bytes per second at the height of the raid. Ordinarily, Champion does no-evac raids where everyone remains in the jello until Hamidon is defeated. Usually, we simply power through the last 25% health and ignore the last mito spawn, but due to the lag we got ripped apart by the yellows and had to fall back and regroup.
I can deal with a bit of lag every now and then, but the recent patch has made things unbearable, to the point where I am strongly considering whether or not I want to continue my subscription.
@Demobot
Also on Steam
Quote:
The petition I submitted was escalated twice. I then got an email stating that they are aware of issues with lag in the BAF and that a patch would be forthcoming soon that should help with it. They asked me to send them some information about my system just in case, which I did.|
Originally Posted by Noyjitat
Ok if they really told you that then someone at customer service really is a moron.
|
I will probably update my question, since tonight I was on a lambda team that decided to try for one of the badges needed for the Master badge, and the volume of adds created the exact same kind of lag for our team that I got on the BAF. My tier-2 sonic blast power, which is supposed to animate in 1.67 seconds, was taking between 6 and 7 seconds from the time I clicked it until it let the next power I queued up fire.
My postings to this forum are not to be used as data in any research study without my express written consent.
Ran a BaF today on Champion with two teams, because some people were refusing to run with more than that due to the lag. After that, we did another run where we had 18 people but one of the MMs from the first run left, so we only had one MM. The lag was better on the second run.
Also, lag owes me a MoLambda badge. Unless they "fixed" it to be stupid, then lag just owes me the badge for getting all the temps and using none. We had him down to 3 HP when it timed out, and the lag was atrocious once the reinforcements started piling up.
Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World