Why is Atlas Park always the target?
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2011-04-18 24:47 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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No she doesn't, she gets chained to that big rock in her office.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
That'd be hard - whenever there's trouble in the zone, she goes missing.
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I don't know why she keeps that thing around.
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Devs hate Galaxy City.
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It looks like a bit of a stone circle of some kind - although I'm not sure where the chains come from.
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Originally Posted by Silver Gale
No she doesn't, she gets chained to that big rock in her office.
I don't know why she keeps that thing around. |
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Where's that?|
Originally Posted by Blue Rabbit
Devs hate Galaxy City.
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I Dunno. Atlas Shrugged.
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Kings Row and Galaxy City are my normal patrol areas, and you *know* how territorial we kitties are! Even Uncle Stefan knows better than to attack Galaxy City, especially with my faithful sidekick, BABsy "minding the store" while I am out teaching Naughty Spawns the error of their ways by applying the Paw of Justice to their bummies!|
Originally Posted by Impervious Fist
Still, Galaxy City is pretty important too, it has Freedom Corps in it, yet while they are not striking Atlas, they strike
Kings Row - Apex Talos - Sutter Skyway - Sutter IP - Tip Missions PI - Patron (I can understand that one though) Croatoa - Tip Missions etc. Pretty much every part of the city BUT Galaxy City, a pretty important part of it, has been struck. |
Emperor Cole, on the other paw, not being from around here, made the mistake of attacking Kings Row, where I was born. Let us just say that the fur *really* flew then!
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It's symbolic.|
Originally Posted by Impervious Fist
Let me start off by saying I am not in any way talking about why players are always there. I'm talking about why are villains always trying to strike there. Recluse's map on his meeting table has crosshairs on it, Neuron's portal shows it, it's the first mayhem mission, why?
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Al Quaeda didn't attack the World Trade Center in New York because it was important; they attacked it because it was symbolic, an icon of American economic hegemony. Bin Laden talked about having visions of the towers falling, and they tried to take them down on multiple occasions. If they had given up and attacked a different target it wouldn't have been as satisfying -- the symbol of their enemies' power would have remained intact.
In war, you want to not only attack your enemies' base of power, you also want to destroy their morale by levelling important landmarks and symbols. On medieval battlefields they fought to capture the opposing King's banner. The barbarians attacked the symbols of Rome, like the coloseum, although they had no tactical value. In World War One it was symbolically important but strategically useless little towns like Verdun. In World War Two it was hamlets like Hamburg and Dresden. Now we're in the age of terrorism and asymmetric warfare, and we attack public monuments and important civic buildings.
Symbols are also important in the superhero millieu. A superhero's symbol is his sense of self-identity, and you can gain a psychological advantage over him if you destroy his symbol. The flag on City Hall and the statue of Atlas are important symbols in Paragon city, and attacking them is an attack on the moral basis of the heroes that live there.
It's all symbolic. We're not fighting with fists; we're fighting with our dreams. That's what superheroes do.
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Wait. Wait. Okay.|
Originally Posted by TheDeepBlue
In the first novel, the Furies explain to Marcus Cole that Paragon City as well as the other civilizations that inhabited the land previously did so because it's one of several places in the world where the threads of fate and destiny are woven (or something to that effect) and any force that controls the land may exert considerable influence over the rest of the planet. Right now, heroes control Paragon City. There's another such locus at the Rogue Isles. Guess who controls that.
Most citizens of Paragon City aren't consciously aware of this situation, but they seem to feel it somehow nonetheless: the city motto is "The Birthplace of Tomorrow"; there's a statue of Atlas holding the world up on his shoulders at the heart of the city; and, of course, villains repeatedly try to take the city for themselves. |
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I have to wonder if the statue of Galaxy Girl would be more iconic if it were placed in front of Freedom Corps rather than behind it. Then again, it might be better with a different pose. It is a little interesting that Galaxy City does seem to be 100% ignored in-game at times. I started my first character there and I'd argue that the slightly longer musical key for the starting area sounds better than the one in Atlas. Then there's all the other things noted here like Freedom Corps and a much bigger longevity to the city's lore that would make it seem like a prime target.
The Galaxy Girl statue and its little park should be placed behind City Hall, and the Freedom Corps building should be located under City Hall
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Official Background
(Copied from the City of Heroes Official Web site [1])
Atlas Park is the City Zone at the heart of Paragon City. No landmark exemplifies the heroic nature of the City of Heroes more than the statue of the fallen hero, Atlas, that stands in front of City Hall. Atlas was one of the first heroes to respond to the Nazi sneak attack against Paragon City on December 7th, 1941. Almost single-handedly, Atlas kept the German attackers from gaining a foothold past Independence Port. It cost him his life, but he held his ground until the Freedom Phalanx arrived.
The statue of Atlas was dedicated by Statesman himself in a ceremony christening the heart of Atlas Park. Many heroes were inspired enough by Atlas' sacrifice to volunteer for the Freedom Phalanx's trek across the Atlantic to help reinforce the Dawn Patrol in England. To this day, Atlas Park is the safest area in Paragon City and many new heroes dedicate themselves to making sure it stays that way. Throughout Atlas Park and the rest of Paragon City are even more statues of heroes that fell in battle while defending their beliefs. Newcomers to the City are always encouraged to look for the information plaques by these monuments to learn more about those who sacrificed themselves for the greater good.
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There's no room for the Freedom Corps under City Hall. There's already the Freedom Phalanx secret headquarters, the MAGI vault, and a tunnel leading from the MAGI vault straight to the Zig under there. |
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
The Galaxy Girl statue and its little park should be placed behind City Hall, and the Freedom Corps building should be located under City Hall
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Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
Because they're hoping to strike in the middle of a costume contest and catch all the heroes with their toggles down.
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This.
Seriously, the statue of Atlas is the most recognized part of the city. Show a disaster movie buff the Chrysler building and he'll tell you how many times its been blown up.
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From a game design standpoint, Atlas Park is simply the better map. Blueside players are also more familiar with it since there are more reasons to return once they've graduated to levelling in other zones. As for the villains, they go where the heroes are.
Although I often use Galaxy City to start out alts when I don't want to deal with the hustle and bustle of Atlas Park, I have to admit that the latter's layout flows better. The location of City Hall plaza makes for a better hub, whether for starting missions or services*, and its immediate surroundings aren't so tightly packed or built up. Flying overhead (or viewing it through a portal scanner or on a holographic table map) reveals an impressive vista taking in much of the zone.
Freedom Court, boxed in by skyscrapers, is shunted off to the side. Its sightlines don't take in nearly as much of the zone. The main attractions - Galaxy Girl's statue, the arena, the monorail, and AE - are detached from each other in the wider neighborhood and can't form a cohensive sense of space. Since no particular geographic element dominates the rest of the map, the zone's that much less attractive for a villain's domination.
Galaxy City basically is in need of urban renewal. Whichever dev designed Imperial City and Nova Praetoria should be assigned the task of rennovating this neglected zone. If not, then War Witch should seriously ask herself the reason for its continued existence in the game.
* Edit: Atlas Park, with Vanguard, Fort Trident, Wentworth's, and Vault Reserve located in it, has many more service locations than Galaxy City, which has only an arena to distinguish itself. Atlas also boasts the Abandoned Sewers Trial NPC and connects to more zones.
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Not all of us are AP snobs. The reason for Galaxy City's existence is simple: some of us prefer it this way. Seriously, if AP got any cleanier, I'd expect doves and singing choirs in the air.|
Originally Posted by TrueGentleman
Galaxy City basically is in need of urban renewal. Whichever dev designed Imperial City and Nova Praetoria should be assigned the task of rennovating this neglected zone. If not, then War Witch should seriously ask herself the reason for its continued existence in the game.[/SIZE]
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That would make me grumpy. Very grumpy.
Galaxy City's fine. The only people who want to change it, do not notice they can have an AP2 with just a little effort (without forcing another zone to become a clone of AP).
GC isn't messed with because those of us who prefer it, well. Tough bunch
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Well, that and the devs' reluctance to rennovate established content. I'm not suggesting wholesale gentrification in order to attract a better class of supervillain, though. Giving Freedom Court more prominence in its immediate surroundings, the way Freedom Plaza does in Kings Row, or explanding the arena's neighborhood to make it feel more like a sports center would open up the map without detracting from its character. Right now, its streets are too cramped and tangled for a good rampage, its buildings too much of an architectural melange for a would-be world conqueror to imagine as impressive ruins. Galaxy City needs the equivalent of a special economic zone program, except for super-powered mayhem.
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Originally Posted by Myrdinn
The reason for Galaxy City's existence is simple: some of us prefer it this way.
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Same could be said of Gotham ;-)|
Originally Posted by TrueGentleman
Well, that and the devs' reluctance to rennovate established content. I'm not suggesting wholesale gentrification in order to attract a better class of supervillain, though. Giving Freedom Court more prominence in its immediate surroundings, the way Freedom Plaza does in Kings Row, or explanding the arena's neighborhood to make it feel more like a sports center would open up the map without detracting from its character. Right now, its streets are too cramped and tangled for a good rampage, its buildings too much of an architectural melange for a would-be world conqueror to imagine as impressive ruins. Galaxy City needs the equivalent of a special economic zone program, except for super-powered mayhem.
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Too each his or her own, I'd say.
Explorer: 93%. Achiever: 40%. Socializer: 40%. Killer 33%.
Current Heroes and Villains (altitis holding at 50 currents)
To all the devs, past, present, (and may there be) future: /salute
To NCSoft: Understand that you reap what you plant, and you cannot gain what you throw away.
A single blue side starter zone would make more sense, and bring it into line with the Rogue Isles and Praetoria - Galaxy City could easily be removed, and the entrances from it to Kings Row and Perez Park could be joined up instead.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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The difference is that Gotham takes place in a comic book and Galaxy Park in an MMORPG. There's nothing wrong with Galaxy Park's atmosphere, only that its layout could be improved for the flow of play.|
Originally Posted by Myrdinn
Same could be said of Gotham ;-)
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
A single blue side starter zone would make more sense, and bring it into line with the Rogue Isles and Praetoria - Galaxy City could easily be removed, and the entrances from it to Kings Row and Perez Park could be joined up instead.
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One of the things I like about Galaxy is the fact that there's breathing room between its main attractions. I will say that knocking down a few of the non-descript buildings and perhaps either raising or tweaking others would help.
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Originally Posted by TrueGentleman
Freedom Court, boxed in by skyscrapers, is shunted off to the side. Its sightlines don't take in nearly as much of the zone. The main attractions - Galaxy Girl's statue, the arena, the monorail, and AE - are detached from each other in the wider neighborhood and can't form a cohensive sense of space. Since no particular geographic element dominates the rest of the map, the zone's that much less attractive for a villain's domination.
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Oh hell no. I've started every hero of mine for the last 6 years in Galaxy City because it's quieter. And I generally try to avoid Atlas Park whenever possible. Just too much useless chatter in there.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
A single blue side starter zone would make more sense, and bring it into line with the Rogue Isles and Praetoria - Galaxy City could easily be removed, and the entrances from it to Kings Row and Perez Park could be joined up instead.
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It's probably game lore related. The citizens or Paragon City would probably be pretty demoralized if Atlas Park was taken over or destroyed. | Why is Atlas Park always the target? |
In movies, New York City and Washington DC are typically targeted for the exact same reason. They are symbols of what the country stands for, and people get upset when their symbols are attacked.
In the game world, Atlas Park serves the same function, it is a symbol of what Paragon City stands for.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Just out of morbid curiosity, what would happen if LA got targeted?
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Much rejoicing at the relief of not being bombarded with horrible movies and crappy pop music all the time.
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Originally Posted by Blue Rabbit
Just out of morbid curiosity, what would happen if LA got targeted?
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
It's the costume contests. Recluse is stuck with that ugly outfit he got drunk and picked out. Now that he has a statue of himself in it he is stuck. And he hates that everyone else gets to pick cool new stuff. Yep, I'm saying it, it's a crime against fashion.