Poison Set Revamp thread

Actually, I could easily picture an Ice Controller going into melee and probably Fire Control as well. It would seem to make more sense as an ally targeted power though I wonder if it was made PBAOE due to thoughts of Mind (no pet), Gravity (built in repel field...though that might actually be good surprisingly), or Corruptors as a whole due to soloing. Plus, the devs may WANT some risk involved due to the controls Controllers offer and Phantom Army's invincibility.

Noxious Gas should gain ally targeted status, though. That would still allow it to be used on pets yet it could be applied to melee ATs. Even if the melee AT is a Stalker since I was pleasantly surprised to see that when a teammate hit me with Sonic Dispersion it still debuffed yet didn't aggro and didn't break Hide.

My Arcs
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Mission Architect Handyman

YES, YES, YES AND YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now I need to make a new /poison. I think it's going to be ported to other ATs. I don't think it fits MM that well. I think I am going with a Corr.

Sounds like they were working on it before someone made the thread. This set did need a look over for sure.

And Rad is just as good at that same thing while simultaneously being good at neutering entire groups. Not having group abilities is a huge detriment in this game and needs to be balanced by some large advantage. Poison doesn't have that. At best, it does just as well as the other sets.

I should have addressed this more directly: I don't see area effect sets to have that much more marginal utility when that extra effect is wasted on minions and Lts.



If you're going to mention the minor bonus that O2 Boost gets you should also mention Alkaloid's minor bonus: toxic dmg resist. Neither are worth much, which is why I neglected to mention either of them.


No, I compared to Dark Miasma in particular. It's a darling of the forum, and someone had mentioned it in comparison earlier. I've no interest in comparing Poison to dissimilar sets.



You're right, this was my mistake. That extra 75% debuffs tohit buffs, not tohit directly. You're off base on the end cost, but that's relatively unimportant.

Poison's advantage here is that the debuffs last the full 20 or 30sec. Rad's awesome debuffness is toggled, so if your rad were to do something uncool like faceplant -- or even get herself mezzed -- the debuffs go away.

Upon review and testing, everything you said here is accurate. And nao I haz a sad. :<

Though I can content myself with the new changes making Poison moar awesome. It does make me wonder if O2 Boost will get a similar upgrade as Alkaloid...

I did mention the minor toxic resistance. However, I would not call O2 boost's secondary effects minor and I don't believe it will be improved. I could end up being suprised, but no O2 boost is nice, meshes well with the set, and beats Alkaloid soundly.


So dark, a control heavy set with no defense debuff is gets compared to poison because people (rightly) love the set, but the other debuff sets with the same debuffs in equal or greater ammount are too dissimilar to compare?

It doesn't matter if you don't want to compare them to poison, because when it comes to powerset balance you must. If the other sets do what poison does only better, then poison is underpowered.

The other set's do what poison does but better. Poison is underpowered. If you look and compare poison to the other sets you'll discover two things.

1. They're not all that dissimilar
2. Poison is not as good



Hitting these two at once.

Darkest night and weaken both have a 22.5% damage debuff and 11.3 tohit debuff. Weaken also has a secondary debuff.

Darkest night cost .65end/sec

weaken has and end cost of 13 and lasts 30s for an endurance cost of .43end/sec Adding a second enemy means you have to wait 16s for the power to recharge then pay another 13 end. To maintain that on both enemies means it would cost more endurance than it would to maintain Darks power. Remembering that Dark can debuff up to either 10 or 16, I'm not sure off the top of my head, enemies at the same time, without a gap between any of them.

Envenom and Freezing rain both have a 30% resistance debuff. Envenom debuffs defense by 22.5% and Freezing rain debuffs by 30% Envenom has a 50% regen debuff and a 15% heal resist. Freezing rain has Minor damage and speed/recharge debuffs

Freezing rain costs 22.8 endurance to debuff for 30s for .76end/sec

Envenom has the same 13 endurance cost.

The point is, that I wasn't making stuff up. When there's a single enemy poison gets a minor endurance advantage (assuming perfect timing) but the moment you add a second enemy, it loses that advantage. Whether you believe the ability to affect more than one enemy at a time is important or not doesn't remove the fact that ther -is- a large advantage to the AoE debuffs. And it applies the moment there's more than one enemy to fight.


It's true, poison is awesome. But being awesome does not mean it isn't an underperformer.

Will do. Ninja/Poison was my very first lvl 50 villain so I will definately be checking out any changes to this to see if its viable for teaming which is where this set falls apart on the huge spawns. I was hoping though for some changes to ninja survivability.

Oh.. excellent.

Can you please PM him back and ask him NICELY to get rid of the 4s interrupt in Poison "Bomb"? And please re-name the power too?

/Poison doesn't have stealth, so it will be hard to set it off with 4s long interrupt. If it has no interrupt, then I'll definitely take it just for the aoe hold. I can care less about the -endurance part (although controller/corr may find some use of it).


My biggest problem with Alkaloid is actually its activation time and the projectile's traveling speed. It is not uncommon when I throw the "green ball" and my pet is already dead. H2 Boost is an almost immediate healing. If you need to heal, you gotta heal "fast".


I would suggest Alkaloid an initial heal, follow by a decent +regeneration for 10s. This way you cut down some need to keep throwing it. (although +regeneration sucks on pets since they have such low health to back it up...)

Yeah that's the first thing I thought of too.

If you could stack like that envenom/weaken might actually end up better then freezing rain or tar patch, at the cost of extra clicks and end.

Heh, find a TF where somebody has one of the shield powers that are now AoEs. The newfound ninja survivability will make you a happy MM.
Even better, upright ninjas are damaging ninjas, you'll feel like a fully contributing member of the team.

No problem bud.

Oh and please test troller/corr version too. I am curious to find out what their debuff values and endurance costs are like.

Thanks.

I am more excited about making a non-MM /Poison. I just don't think this set has enough aoe protection for 6 pets but it may be good on troller/corr.

I have always said pvp would hurt this game alot due to them not being able to divorce the two when it first came out. The change in distance on psi blast really hurt the set to me in pve. Yeah true enough you have boost range and such but in instance missions how would this be over powered? To even be able to leverage this in pve you would have to have a map where it was outdoors with nothing blocking line of sight. Thats only a handful of maps. If using it from the air its not like mobs do not already out range us even with boost range.

I have a ninja/thermal mastermind too. While shields do help some its not enough. Instead of the pets being outright 1 shotted they can survive 2 to 3 hits with shields. Still not enough compared to what the ranged bots get. To me ninja need inherrent resists and and almost double defense since they have the most risk out of all the pets since they do not get a heal or buff.

...and yet, here I sit with a 50 psy/mental blaster who was a fun trip. Bots are a pain of course but boosting my range wouldn't have made it better.

"directing" is a harsh word. "asking" is more like it. :P

I am just very curious about /poison values on corr.