my 2 cents:
alkaloid. shorter animation, less endurance. AoE or +regen.
it need to be on the level of radiant aura in therms of useablity.
envenom. kinda funny that a debuff supposed to lower defense need to overcome that defense in first place. either i don't need it or i can't hit stuff with it. it is pointless right now. make it like tar patch, always hit AoE area.
weaken. again it is as strong as darkest night, but need to hit and single target. clone it like the darkest night.
neurotoxic breath. speed and recharge are not helpful at all. make it long time sleep with puke effects or short time stun/confuse. skill set need an alpha strike canceler.
elixir of life. make it buff-rezz. if some one is alive - he will be buffed, if dead - he will be resurrected and buffed. and not only player, but also a pet. really, thermal has its forge and it can be used on any target. dark has an AoE control that also a rezz, why not a buff with rezz option?
antidote. well, all such skills, imho, suck badly. traps/bubbles/sonics have AoE anti-mezzes, all other are forced to do heavy clicking.
but, oh well.....
paralytic poison. longer duration, longer cooldown, less clicky.
poison trap. clone from traps is good beginning. but i would prefer that it will unleash a long lasting gas cloud, which mobs would like to escape. say magnitude 50 fear area. good squishy defense like caltrops or like lightning storm.
the other possibility is to make it like steam cloud, that cover from ranged fire. all friendlies within get +def on ranged, all enemies within big area get -perception. like stationary stealth field.
noxious gas. make it toggle like from sonic. make it NOT scalable with tier of pet. not every set has tier 3 melee to get its full potential.
Alkaloid is getting more potent in Issue 21.
No, there is several powers in the game designed to lower defense that require accuracy - why should Envenom be any different?
Both Envenom and Weaken are getting splash effects added to it in Issue 21, where it does half debuff to surrounding enemies.
Your breath changes would make it a 3rd hold for the set if you want people to puke. Poison Trap is getting changed into a hold in Issue 21.
Elixer already is a buff rez - no rezzes in the game work on pets so this will never happen. It buffs similar to the rez in Radiation, where you get weakened after a time of being buffed.
Yeah Antidote is not that useful IMO. I would have taken it if it got the aoe treatment that bubbles got, but clear mind type of powers have limited use, I agree.
Paralytic - seems most people are ok with this power.
Poison Trap is now fixed to go off properly and will now be a hold instead of sleep in Issue 21.
Not sure what is being done to Noxious - I am not sure if it is staying the same for MMs but for Corruptors and Controllers it is a different power.
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Poison Trap (oh, can they please just rename it?) is only going to be useful if they get rid of the 4s interrupt. /Poison does not have invisible and it doesn't have anchor pull like Darknest Night or FFG that can help you "avoid hits" in the crowd or Seekers that can help you take alpha. If they keep 4s interrupt, it won't be as useful.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
As happy as I am with the Poison changes that have been mentioned, I do wish they'd remove the 'trap' component of poison trap.
Quote:
i've already wrote it. if the target has no def u don't need it, if it has - u can't hit with it.|
Originally Posted by JayboH
No, there is several powers in the game designed to lower defense that require accuracy - why should Envenom be any different?
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mm isnt't a brute or blaster that have build-ups, so you can't compare those skills to that of mm. /dark skills are auto-hit, traps are mostly auto-hit, storm skills are either auto-hit or have fast ticks. the hell, even trick arrow has oil slick that is an area -def.
those skillsets require aggressive play style, as well as /poison. so you see, there are no reason for those powers for not to be an auto-hit. all others are, why poison should be exception?
the only exception are thermal and pain because they are mostly support/buffers, so their debuffs both crippled by recharge and hit. which can be understood as balancing mean.
but the poison is all about debuffs, which are useless if you can't hit. thats why all other skill sets have auto-hit -def debuffs.
that's why i've got deleted my thug/poison mm.
I'm really really hoping we've got Poison-interested folks heavily testing the changes in closed Beta. The devs need feedback on changes they're making. I fear by the time open Beta opens up and the rest of us get in that things will be pretty much decided. 
Quote:
Yes you can. The ability to slot acc in Envenom was not an accident.
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Originally Posted by kalashnikow
i've already wrote it. if the target has no def u don't need it, if it has - u can't hit with it.
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Quote:
i theory. i fact double acc slotted with io's of appropriate level is not enough to penetrate shield projection of sky riders. and that on middle 30. i even don't want to discuss how bad it will be on lvl 50 incarnate trial levels of mobs.
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Originally Posted by JayboH
Yes you can. The ability to slot acc in Envenom was not an accident.
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Yellow inspirations aren't rare for those instances.
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Issue 21 hits open beta today I think. My DSL is down, so I can't play right now (just hoping it'll be back for the weekend). I'm hoping some people will go up there and do some testing with Poison.
Poison
Alkaloid: Increased this power's healing moderately.
Envenom: This power now has an 8 foot radius. The targeted foe will suffer the full strength of the power's debuff effect while nearby foes will suffer half the effect's potency. Increased this power's endurance cost slightly.
Weaken: This power now has an 8 foot radius. The targeted foe will suffer the full strength of the power's debuff effect while nearby foes will suffer half the effect's potency. Increased this power's endurance cost slightly.
Poison Trap: Reduced this power's interrupt time from 4 to 2 seconds. This power now deals minor damage over time, will hold foes instead of put them to sleep and will reduce the affected targets' recovery while they're within the poison gas. This power now accepts Interrupt enhancements, Hold enhancements and IO Sets and Damage enhancements and Melee AoE IO Sets and can no longer accept sleep enhancements and IO sets.
During Closed Beta I asked Synapse about the possibility of altering the tier-9 power into an Any Ally power for Masterminds, the response was that there was no way to do it in the current development schedule due to the fact that it is coded as granting a power rather than granting an effect. The OTHER changes are nice though.
Quote:
I would add to what Lady of Ysgard has presented with a minor modification. Poison Trap also accepts End Mod enhancements; I will have to check again, didn't test for End Mod Sets.|
Originally Posted by Lady_of_Ysgard
Poison
Alkaloid: Increased this power's healing moderately. Envenom: This power now has an 8 foot radius. The targeted foe will suffer the full strength of the power's debuff effect while nearby foes will suffer half the effect's potency. Increased this power's endurance cost slightly. Weaken: This power now has an 8 foot radius. The targeted foe will suffer the full strength of the power's debuff effect while nearby foes will suffer half the effect's potency. Increased this power's endurance cost slightly. Poison Trap: Reduced this power's interrupt time from 4 to 2 seconds. This power now deals minor damage over time, will hold foes instead of put them to sleep and will reduce the affected targets' recovery while they're within the poison gas. This power now accepts Interrupt enhancements, Hold enhancements and IO Sets and Damage enhancements and Melee AoE IO Sets and can no longer accept sleep enhancements and IO sets. During Closed Beta I asked Synapse about the possibility of altering the tier-9 power into an Any Ally power for Masterminds, the response was that there was no way to do it in the current development schedule due to the fact that it is coded as granting a power rather than granting an effect. The OTHER changes are nice though. |
Attention!! Attention!!
The mastermind poison secondary power "poison trap" is not overpowered but let us lay to rest (in pieces I hope) the way it was. I experienced the two second interrupt, indeed the poison trap does do holds, not long hold base, but thank Positron you can enhance the hold. The power description in game in beta is still INCORRECT, it does do hold. You have to be on the ground, not hovering 4 inches over the ground. The 'triggering' also appears to be much, much better at snagging passersby, you don't have to toe-bomb, but toe-bombing really works well with pets. The kb from level 50 robots was not onerous and did not preclude toe-bombing.
On my Robots/Poison/Mace mastermind, this gives me three solid holds for boss and AV fights including paralytic poison, poison trap, and web cocoon. There's a whole lot of holding going on
Another ancillary observation, not just about masterminds. I notice that foes in CoH Freedom like to get more cozy when they are fighting, to the point where you are immobilized be a groups of minions. Fortunately my robots easily blast through such obstacles, but it's a word of warning.
Now, at this time Symon Sisyphus wishes to express his gratitude to all those that worked on the poison set for masterminds and the proliferation to make it better.
Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.
Quote:
This doesn't preclude improving Noxious. They can take away the varying effectiveness based on pet tier, that would open up Poison to more Primaries. They could lower the recharge, or even make Noxious a toggle. Both would be legit and non-overpowering changes. |
Originally Posted by Lady_of_Ysgard
During Closed Beta I asked Synapse about the possibility of altering the tier-9 power into an Any Ally power for Masterminds, the response was that there was no way to do it in the current development schedule due to the fact that it is coded as granting a power rather than granting an effect. The OTHER changes are nice though.
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I'm not a fan of the eight foot splash at 50%. Why is it OK for Dark to have Tar Patch and Darkest Night at full strength on large numbers of foes, but Envenom and Weaken can't be similar? It's not like Poison's numbers are that much more powerful than Dark's.
EDIT: Just asked Synapse about changing Noxious in any of the above ways and he said there's no changes coming for Noxious. Unfortunate. They can make all the changes they want to the earlier powers, until Noxious changes Poison will always be a sub-par selection for MM's.
I have been using the official feedback thread in the beta forums and have not been checking this thread.
My thoughts:
First, I am testing with a corruptor.
Venomous Gas DOES NOT WORK in its current form for corruptors. You basically have to run in, grab all the aggro, get stunned/held and get detoggled instantly.
Poison Trap shouldn't have any interruptability IMO.
I think I am fine with the AOE sizes, but I think that debuffing half strength to surrounding targets isn't necessary HOWEVER I think the reason he did that is because the debuffs come up SOO fast - it's easy to just keep layering it on diff targets.
The heal is fine - wish it had an 8 ft radius also of course but I can live with it.
Venomous Gas is simply not going to work. I was grabbing aggro away from brutes that just got me killed while running it. It really should require tech to use the same method as sonic resonance's distortion field and be an ally toggle.
I could live with the rest of the set as it is if they fix Venomous Gas even though I want other things for the set.
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Poison Trap's 2 second interruption isn't terrible on Masterminds as the pets grab aggro, but on a corruptor, I can see this as a huge problem.
Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.
Quote:
Yeah, it really is. It's completely broken and will never work. When you run in, it sounds like something is getting hit with quills from the spines set too, which is weird but I can shrug it off.|
Originally Posted by Psylenz
Poison Trap's 2 second interruption isn't terrible on Masterminds as the pets grab aggro, but on a corruptor, I can see this as a huge problem.
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I was messing with it in Atlas as a Beam Rifle/Poison corruptor at level 50 here.
EDIT: errr I meant while running Venomous Gas.
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I got the official answer from Synapse regarding Venomous Gas on corruptors:
"Hi Jayboh,
I'm pretty happy with the Poison Tier 9 power as is. It generates no more or less threat than any other debuff toggle. It's a pretty comprehensive debuff, so it needs to be risky to use. Making it ally targeted would really defeat one of my goals of this revamp, and that's to make the set more solo friendly. Right now 3 of the powers require allies. That's a bit much. As for renaming powers, we're in a localization lock at the moment. Any name changes or text adjustments will occur after launch of I21.
Synapse "
My new Youtube Channel with CoH info
You might know me as FlintEastwood now on Freedom
I am so not convinced with the poison set. So not convinced. It's alright in some aspects but really you're limited on personal survival. Being limited on that just means its pointless being alright in everything else. I think maybe some debuffs of secondary effects are too highly regarded that not enough -tohit is involved.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Got an update from Synapse:
"Hey guys,
I did want to pop in and let you know that the endurance cost you're seeing now is a bug. It should in fact be .52 endurance per second. As you've suggested, what you're seeing is DOUBLE what you'd expect for the Controller and slightly more than double on the Corruptor. This will be fixed in a future build. Thanks for your patience. Additionally, I will also be upping Venomous Gas' To Hit debuff from scale .5 to 1.
Thank you for your feedback!
Synapse "
My new Youtube Channel with CoH info
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I am just very curious about /poison values on corr.
My new Youtube Channel with CoH info
You might know me as FlintEastwood now on Freedom