Incarnates for non-elementalists?
I have basically the same issue as the OP; my main character is a natural AR/dev blaster who is meant to be a highly trained human with some gadgets, so can't exactly throw lightning bolts or anything. This makes me reluctant to take any of the Judgement powers since they are a little too obviously super. I have a lot of other weapon-based characters (with pistols, swords or bows) that are in the same boat.
If the pyronic animation showed my character doing the "throw a grenade" emote, then the explosion, I think I'd be perfectly happy taking it though. So, I guess I'm hoping they will add some alternate animations someday. ![]() |
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
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The BrandX Collection
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Does it help that your highly trained human with some gadgets, is still basically superhuman?
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What's missing here is the ability to be super human without flashing lights, essentially. Yes, exploding into a shower of rainbow fire is exciting, I make no contest, but so is punching the ground hard enough to send enemies into space. Granted, that power already exists in Super Strength, but this doesn't seem to have stopped the developers from making Pyronic Judgement into essentially a souped-up version of Fireball (toss fire at enemy, kill in AoE around).
What of those characters who prefer to use their hands... Or their fists?
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Ah, that's another problem, that's still mostly under the hood. I rarely pay attention to how much relative damage my attacks are doing from mob to mob. I know my heavy hitting attacks vs my lighter attacks, but exactly *how* much damage it's doing from enemy group to different enemy group....eh.
Obviously, after 7 yrs here, (and a lifetime of gaming in general) I'm aware of who's got what resistances to what attacks, but that's so way in the back of my head during normal gameplay as to not even matter.
Furio--Lvl 50+3 Fire/Fire/Fire Blaster, Virtue
Megadeth--Lvl 50+3 Necro/DM/Soul MM, Virtue
Veriandros--Lvl 50+3 Crab Soldier, Virtue
"So come and get me! I'll be waiting for ye, with a whiff of the old brimstone. I'm a grim bloody fable, with an unhappy bloody end!" Demoman, TF2
Furio--Lvl 50+3 Fire/Fire/Fire Blaster, Virtue
Megadeth--Lvl 50+3 Necro/DM/Soul MM, Virtue
Veriandros--Lvl 50+3 Crab Soldier, Virtue
"So come and get me! I'll be waiting for ye, with a whiff of the old brimstone. I'm a grim bloody fable, with an unhappy bloody end!" Demoman, TF2
I have basically the same issue as the OP; my main character is a natural AR/dev blaster who is meant to be a highly trained human with some gadgets, so can't exactly throw lightning bolts or anything. This makes me reluctant to take any of the Judgement powers since they are a little too obviously super. I have a lot of other weapon-based characters (with pistols, swords or bows) that are in the same boat.
If the pyronic animation showed my character doing the "throw a grenade" emote, then the explosion, I think I'd be perfectly happy taking it though. So, I guess I'm hoping they will add some alternate animations someday. ![]() |
Ion Judgement: Nanites embedded into your gloves connect with a Weaponized Ion Based Satellite. When Activated the Satellite shoots the Ion charge and you "reflect" the charge to the target for devastating effect.
Barrier Destiny: A magnetic charge generating device embedded into your armor emits a field of magnetic energy capable of slowing and sometimes outright stopping incoming fire.
IDF Lore: Holographic Techonlogy enables you to summon an IDF Clone capable of enflicting Energy Damage to your Enemies. They take the form of IDF soldiers as it creates confusion and breaks the moral of Marcus Cole's legion.
Reactive Interface: Upgraded Ammunition that is networked to provide real time data on target weak spots, Ammunition is also coated in superheated jelly that increases bullet speed and when comes in contact with metal or shreds through soft targets, will ignite to cause extra damage.
My Main Character is AR/Dev and that's how I explain his powers. Wasn't too difficult. Just look for the power that use the Tech Based thread salvage.
Cpt. Shwan.
Virtue, AR/Dev Blaster, lvl 50+3, 3300+ Hours logged.
Created 8/20/2004 - Proud Captain of Hero Dawn!
Ah, that's another problem, that's still mostly under the hood. I rarely pay attention to how much relative damage my attacks are doing from mob to mob. I know my heavy hitting attacks vs my lighter attacks, but exactly *how* much damage it's doing from enemy group to different enemy group....eh.
Obviously, after 7 yrs here, (and a lifetime of gaming in general) I'm aware of who's got what resistances to what attacks, but that's so way in the back of my head during normal gameplay as to not even matter. |
As for knowing who has what resistances - a lot of the time it's obvious. If someone is on fire or uses fire powers, he'll usually be resistant to fire and weak to cold. Ghosts of all varieties tend to resist the brand of negative energy that they wield, but are weak to "positive energy." The Freakshow are weak to energy attacks because it says so in their bios, but the Tanks are strong against cutting and stabbing attacks because they're made of metal. Walking trees and mushrooms are weak to cutting and burning attacks, but strong against blunt trauma, because they're plants with no internal organs. By contrast, rock monsters are resistant to cutting because they're made of rock, but are weak to blunt attacks because rock shatters.
None of these conclusions required me to do more than look at an enemy, or at most read said enemy's text description. And when I've actually fought an enemy for some time, I get a good sense of what works and what doesn't. For instance, I've fought enough Malta Auto Turrets to know that swords and bullets take ages to kill them, but fire works very, very well. I've also fought enough Mek Men to know that swords and bullets are not effective, but punches kill them fast.
I have a feel for how combat works, and I have a good sense for patterns and cause-effect relationships. That's why I've gone on the record as saying that I'll eventually grow to "like" my stronger powers, for the simple fact that my brain associates what works with pleasant memories and what doesn't work with unpleasant memories. Attacking ghosts with swords, fists, guns, cold and darkness powers brings back VERY unpleasant memories, indeed, as does attacking fire demons with fire attacks. It's not hard to tell that isn't working very well.
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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IDF Lore: Holographic Techonlogy enables you to summon an IDF Clone capable of enflicting Energy Damage to your Enemies. They take the form of IDF soldiers as it creates confusion and breaks the moral of Marcus Cole's legion.
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As for the OP. Have you considered just unlocking Judgement but not slotting it until they, hopefully, add to the system? I understand not wanting the slot to go to waste, but if you don't feel comfortable with it, there's no reason not to simply hold off on that one slot. With the size of the trials, nobody's going to notice one less person throwing their Judgement power around.
As for the OP. Have you considered just unlocking Judgement but not slotting it until they, hopefully, add to the system? I understand not wanting the slot to go to waste, but if you don't feel comfortable with it, there's no reason not to simply hold off on that one slot. With the size of the trials, nobody's going to notice one less person throwing their Judgement power around.
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Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Yeah, that's more or less I intend to do. I have too many problems with the whole system right now, so instead of embittering myself for nothing, I'll let the system develop and see what comes of it. Maybe sooner or later something will pop in that will blow my mind. Everything is possible.
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I don't understand why you'd go that direction when there's two robot groups that you could just as easily reprogram the fallen ones from the Praetoria storyarcs or related TFs.
As for the OP. Have you considered just unlocking Judgement but not slotting it until they, hopefully, add to the system? I understand not wanting the slot to go to waste, but if you don't feel comfortable with it, there's no reason not to simply hold off on that one slot. With the size of the trials, nobody's going to notice one less person throwing their Judgement power around. |
I'm tempted to craft all four flavors of "Interface" just so I can pretend I have the "Swap Ammo" power on my AR blaster, though. Probably would end up being better than the real Swap Ammo power, thinking about it....
![Smile](images/smilies/smile.gif)
@PW - Police Woman (50 AR/dev blaster on Liberty)
TALOS - PW war journal - alternate contact tree using MA story arcs
=VICE= "Give me Liberty, or give me debt!"
For what its worth, I'm also in the same boat as Sam for a few alts. My Mind/Energy (red blasts) dominator and Empathy/Rad (light blue) can be made to work with recolored Pyronic if I ignore the damage type (easily, since that's only on the combat nav).
But my Kat/SR scrapper has nothing that works for him. I already stretched concept with Energy Torrent as ki blast, but not even Pyronic satisfy that concept (at least for him), and even recolored Void is too darkity dark.
I think the one worse off is my Elec/elec blaster. The Incarnate will fit him nicely, but the epics can't be recolored, so he's trapped in his 40s.
That being said, I'm not bitter about anything. I just make work what I can and ignore the rest.
![](http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g104/Portorro/headerbanner.jpg)
I went with the seers and claimed that they are "projecting" themselves to explain the aura. No, I have no clue how that is supposed to work, it's techno-babble.
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![Stick Out Tongue](images/smilies/tongue.gif)
I think the one worse off is my Elec/elec blaster. The Incarnate will fit him nicely, but the epics can't be recolored, so he's trapped in his 40s.
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Though, to be fair, having discovered that Dark Mastery for Scrappers sucks strawberries through a drinking straw, I've decided to do the sensible thing and get him Body Mastery, instead. It should help with his end AND it won't ruin the visual aspect if I keep off the energy blasts.
*edit*
And I listed my 50s in another thread, but I'm shocked to discover that over half of them are weapon users with no "projectable" powers. Sword, sword and shield, axe and shield, that sort of thing.
I did log into my Axe/Shield/Energy Brute, who is currently my highest along in Incarnate progression, and I had the sudden urge to put her through the Incarnate game. But then I realised there wasn't anything to get that would fit her and that killed my enthusiasm dead right then and there. That's kind of why I've been arguing for alternate visuals.
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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here is a thought. would it be too much of a difference for some of the alter tier judgment powers use a lightning rod-esque teleport effect for their attacks. while i cant see a way for a martial arts/sword based ranged aoe that doesnt break theme, i could see a blurring in of the character (they dont have to play it as a teleport, maybe they are just that fast) and then they throw a very fast multi-directon combo with their weapons, fists or feet. seems like the most plausible solution, but would it mechanically be too different from the current ranged judgments? i'm good with rian throwing ice, it fits his name and he is a dragon, but another martial arts strike would cause me to seriously craft both.
here is a thought. would it be too much of a difference for some of the alter tier judgment powers use a lightning rod-esque teleport effect for their attacks. while i cant see a way for a martial arts/sword based ranged aoe that doesnt break theme, i could see a blurring in of the character (they dont have to play it as a teleport, maybe they are just that fast) and then they throw a very fast multi-directon combo with their weapons, fists or feet. seems like the most plausible solution, but would it mechanically be too different from the current ranged judgments? i'm good with rian throwing ice, it fits his name and he is a dragon, but another martial arts strike would cause me to seriously craft both.
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![Smile](images/smilies/smile.gif)
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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A few ideas for more judgement trees, some based on things already suggested. Thinking of these as "signature powers"--so trying to hit a wider variety of "signatures" Obviously, balancing would be in order where one or two might be heavy on debuffs, the numbers somewhere would need to be lower:
- Orbital Canon - AoE power with targeting recticle. Uses an animation similar to either surveillance or one of the merc animations of talking into a military radio. One side of the tree is damage based as per other judgement trees. Not sure what the secondary effects should be.
- Critical Mass - (no not bike commuters :P) PBAoE energy based judgement. Character drops into the energy morph cce pose. Same circle of white light at the core followed by a shockwave of judgement. Energy damage. Secondary effects perhaps mimic some of what is seen in radiation as this power could double for both energy and rad themed characters?
- Divine Incantation - AoE with targeting recticle. Character's head tips back in an animation similar to the oracle in the ITF. A large runic pattern appears on the ground where targeted (or perhaps the ground pattern from the banners on the banner event?). Runic particles swirl about about the area and each affected victim. An even split of cold, fire, psi and dark damage. Someone wanna help me on what the ideal secondary effects could be or would be?
- Utter Chaos - The psionic meets cosmic prankster judgement power. Not sure on the animation for this one, but feels like it should be PBAoE. Left side is all psionic damage. The secondary side is special as it features a wildcard system (new tech I guess)--at top tier there is a chance that any affected victim will have any of the following 2 effects applied to them: -recharge, confuse, fear, sleep, hold (petrified with fear) or stun.
- Nanite Army - Targeted AoE. Uses a simple powder toss animation, like seeds of confusion. Then particles, similar to the bots set repair nanites squirm away from the caster towards the targets. Does a split of energy and cold damage. Potential secondary effects: -def, -dmg, -res, -recharge, slow.
- Ideas for a might based judgement:
- 2 Ton Hammer - PBAoE. Requires the character be grounded like footstomp. Character drops to the ground punching left right over and over WHAM!WHAM!WHAM!WHAM! triggering a massive brief earthquake. Smashing damage with chance to override resistance on the left side of the tree. (Concerned about how common high smashing and lethal resists are in late game for the next several powres). Smashing damage with the following secondaries on the right side of the tree: chances for -res, knockup, & stun.
- Hail Mary Hurl - Targeted AoE or AoE with targeting recticle. Character pulls a random vehicle model out of their dimensional pocket (where all our rifles and battle axes are kept!) and hurls it. The bus/truck/tank explodes on impact into physics appropriate physics particles doing an even split of fire and smashing damage. Secondary effects include knockback and stun.
- 2 Ton Hammer - PBAoE. Requires the character be grounded like footstomp. Character drops to the ground punching left right over and over WHAM!WHAM!WHAM!WHAM! triggering a massive brief earthquake. Smashing damage with chance to override resistance on the left side of the tree. (Concerned about how common high smashing and lethal resists are in late game for the next several powres). Smashing damage with the following secondaries on the right side of the tree: chances for -res, knockup, & stun.
- Ideas for non-tech weapons based characters:
- Storm of Steel: Targeted cone based. Character does a dervish dance, launching a cone of shurikens, throwing knives and perhaps one or two other models just for ridiculousness sake. Left side of the tree is lethal damage, again with a chance to circumvent resists. Right side has following secondary effects: -def, chance for +toxic dmg dot, slow.
- Whirlwind of Death: Think of this as Whirlwind++. You need to steer this one. Character draws their melee weapon (adds weapon customization if you have no blade) and then proceeds to become literally a whirlwind of death. Different pose, slightly more transparent tornado particle effects than normal whirlwind. Does massive DoT when touching baddies. Slight chance of knockup. Advancing up the tree increases how long the power lasts. Secondary effects: -def, increased chance of knockup, fear.
- Storm of Steel: Targeted cone based. Character does a dervish dance, launching a cone of shurikens, throwing knives and perhaps one or two other models just for ridiculousness sake. Left side of the tree is lethal damage, again with a chance to circumvent resists. Right side has following secondary effects: -def, chance for +toxic dmg dot, slow.
That's about all I got in me for now. Feel free to abuse and criticize the list to make it a more balanced set of suggestions in light of this discussion. I took the title of the topic quite literally, trying to come up with a number of signature powers that weren't elemental in terms of fire or electricity, etc.
Oh and though it's not on topic, must say here since we're talking alternative trees: I want me some Rularuu Lore pets!
![Mad](images/smilies/mad.gif)
[*]Critical Mass - PBAoE energy based judgement. Character drops into the energy morph cce pose. Same circle of white light at the core followed by a shockwave of judgement. Energy damage. Secondary effects perhaps mimic some of what is seen in radiation as this power could double for both energy and rad themed characters?
[*]2 Ton Hammer - PBAoE. Requires the character be grounded like footstomp. Character drops to the ground punching left right over and over WHAM!WHAM!WHAM!WHAM! triggering a massive brief earthquake. Smashing damage with chance to override resistance on the left side of the tree. (Concerned about how common high smashing and lethal resists are in late game for the next several powres). Smashing damage with the following secondaries on the right side of the tree: chances for -res, knockup, & stun. |
Love your description of the graphics and effects, by the way. They aren't always what I'd have pictured, but you do a very good job of describing events on-screen, in a way that's actually inspiring to read. Thank you.
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Are we still on for a "per weapon" based Incarnate power?
![Smile](images/smilies/smile.gif)
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I went with Ion Judgment for my SD/WM Tank and just call it some Thor-esque magical property of his hammer. It works well for me since he started with one of the stock spikey maces and later "upgraded" to the Rularuu eyeball-hammer. I figure: Snazzy new hammer, snazzy new unlocked powers over time as he learns to use it.
I dunno what I'll do for Lore once I get there.
Maybe that's unreasonable, maybe it's inflexible, but that's what it takes for me to care. I care that Grimwall will get a bigass fireball, because it makes sense for her. I care that Inna will get the power of the gods, because she was always supposed to have that. I care that Emillia will get Vanguard Swords when that pack comes out, because they're closer to what I'd originally wanted to give her. I don't care that Sam will have to pick from four elements, or pick nothing at all. And it's when I don't care about what's happening in the game that I start to complain.
When I say "physical" attack, I mean either direct contact from one body to another, or otherwise a shockwave created by direct contact from one body to its environment. Ground Punch, Foot Stomp, Hand Clap, a world-shattering elbow drop, an "I fell from low orbit" explosion of kinetic force, that sort of thing.
This is what we don't have - Incarnate abilities which let us use our bodies, rather than projecting things from them. I'm sure the City of Heroes mythos has plenty of gods of fire, gods of ice, gods of the netherworld and so forth, but surely we'll have at least a few gods of fisticuffs, and at least one god of guns and ammo. That's really what I'm trying to get across - even if it's possible to explain the current elemental powers away, the fact remains that non-elemental ones in addition to them would open up quite a few new doors.
Personally, I don't have too much against enemy resistance to smashing and lethal damage. I liked the fact that robots and other hard targets resisted cutting and shooting but caved when pummeled on. I knew I could punch and shatter stone creatures, but not do so well against trees. I could, instead, cut trees, but just chip pebbles off stone creatures. That's where damage types come into play - they determine more than what shows up in my combat tab. They determine what's a soft target and what's a hard target.
That's what I mean.