Please no new Incarnate Salvage for next trials!
By
Amerikatt,
Posted on: 2011-04-06 11:59 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
You should at least prepare yourself for different merits for the next trials.
There are no words for what this community, and the friends I have made here mean to me. Please know that I care for all of you, yes, even you. If you Twitter, I'm MrThan. If you're Unleashed, I'm dumps. I'll try and get registered on the Titan Forums as well. Peace, and thanks for the best nine years anyone could ever ask for.
My expectation is that there will be a new tier of salvage and components like Shards or Threads that will be used to craft the next wave of Incarnate powers. Whether these will be introduced with the next wave of trials depends on whether those trials are related to the new powers or the ones we have now.
The reason I say there will be a new salvage for the new powers is the same reason we got threads instead of just using Shards again - the Devs will not want everyone to be able to stockpile enough components to just have everything on day one of the new powers going live. They will want you to do the content.
@Quasadu
"We must prepare for DOOM and hope for FREEM." - SirFrederick
There'll be new rewards of some kind for the new Trials.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Just give us Reward Merits or Incarnate Shards/Threads.
Enough of the tons of currencies, the game is getting ridiculous with all of them
Pick one system, stick with the system all thew way through to make for ease of use to the playerbase at large. There isn't any reason for the Shards to be unused to process any time of Incarnate ability. It's a perfectly fine, painless system that rewards casual and hardcore alike.
Instead we have a relentlessly grindy system that will take some months, if not longer, to get their new slot open and buffed out. Conversely, an ITF could get your Nictus Shard and if you were lucky you got 8 shards along the way and were off to the races.
Just stop it Devs.
Stop creating new currencies every issue.
Stop muddling the mixture with sub-currencies.
It isn't necessary. Just pick one route and go with it.
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Read my post that's up a couple above yours. There's a reason.
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Originally Posted by Neuronia
There isn't any reason ...
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@Quasadu
"We must prepare for DOOM and hope for FREEM." - SirFrederick
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And yet there are already some people stating they got their tier 3 in some of the new slots the day the issue went live.
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Originally Posted by Quasadu
My expectation is that there will be a new tier of salvage and components like Shards or Threads that will be used to craft the next wave of Incarnate powers. Whether these will be introduced with the next wave of trials depends on whether those trials are related to the new powers or the ones we have now.
The reason I say there will be a new salvage for the new powers is the same reason we got threads instead of just using Shards again - the Devs will not want everyone to be able to stockpile enough components to just have everything on day one of the new powers going live. They will want you to do the content. |
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
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Notice that in my post I was very deliberate in saying everyone and not anyone. Yes there's always going to be some outliers who push like mad to get it as fast as possible. Some folks are willing to spend tons of Inf and pay 2-1 shards for threads, just so they can get it right now. That's going to happen and there's not much point in crippling everyone to stop it. |
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
And yet there are already some people stating they got their tier 3 in some of the new slots the day the issue went live.
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But there is a value in limiting that to those handful of hardcore folks. If they had made these new powers use just Shards, straight up, I'm willing to bet that a MUCH larger number of people would have been unlocking and slotting the new powers without ever setting foot in an Incarnate Trial.
We can argue about whether that is good or bad, but the Devs have expressed that they think it's bad, and I happen to agree with them. So that is the reason. Even if some folks don't like that reason, that's the reason.
@Quasadu
"We must prepare for DOOM and hope for FREEM." - SirFrederick
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Aura,|
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
And yet there are already some people stating they got their tier 3 in some of the new slots the day the issue went live.
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That happens with every issue in this game and with other games as well.
There will always be 'some people' who will get to the max within an obscenely short time period of new content.
The Dev team can not and should not put together content/salvage/whatever based on the minority of people. They should base it on the whole of the game, the leveling/accomplishment speed of the 'average' based on the raw data they have. This way the minority can only skew that data to a small relative degree.
As for the OP, I agree that we have enough salvage types in the game already.
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Oh, you mean the utterly pointless reason that is completely circumvented by the farmers six hours after an Issue goes live but is a complete PITA for everyone else? Know what? That reason isn't a good one.
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Originally Posted by Quasadu
Read my post that's up a couple above yours. There's a reason.
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The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
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Read my post a couple above yours for my response to that.
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Originally Posted by Ironik
Oh, you mean the utterly pointless reason that is completely circumvented by the farmers six hours after an Issue goes live but is a complete PITA for everyone else? Know what? That reason isn't a good one.
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@Quasadu
"We must prepare for DOOM and hope for FREEM." - SirFrederick
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I know, it's insane. I keep saying that the Devs need to ignore the farmers because no matter what they do, the farmers will out-think them or at least out-play them. I mean, some people say they've earned a billion Influence in a week. I haven't earned a billion Influence in seven years. And now new items are tens of millions of Influence to craft? WTH?
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Originally Posted by Cosmic_Herald
Aura,
That happens with every issue in this game and with other games as well. There will always be 'some people' who will get to the max within an obscenely short time period of new content. The Dev team can not and should not put together content/salvage/whatever based on the minority of people. They should base it on the whole of the game, the leveling/accomplishment speed of the 'average' based on the raw data they have. This way the minority can only skew that data to a small relative degree. |
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
Quote:
I wasn't talking about folks being stockpiled or rushing. Doing one lambda I got 54% into unlocking Interface.|
Originally Posted by Quasadu
Notice that in my post I was very deliberate in saying everyone and not anyone. Yes there's always going to be some outliers who push like mad to get it as fast as possible. Some folks are willing to spend tons of Inf and pay 2-1 shards for threads, just so they can get it right now. That's going to happen and there's not much point in crippling everyone to stop it.
But there is a value in limiting that to those handful of hardcore folks. If they had made these new powers use just Shards, straight up, I'm willing to bet that a MUCH larger number of people would have been unlocking and slotting the new powers without ever setting foot in an Incarnate Trial. We can argue about whether that is good or bad, but the Devs have expressed that they think it's bad, and I happen to agree with them. So that is the reason. Even if some folks don't like that reason, that's the reason. |
This system isn't that grindy.
/shrug.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
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But the problem is that the Devs are programming for those few people, not the rest of us. Players who hit the Influence cap and earn all their shards in a fortnight burn out and disappear. Those of us who play casually stay for years and we keep spending money. So stop being retarded and designing for the ridiculous outliers who are outperforming regular players by orders of magnitude.
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Originally Posted by Quasadu
Read my post a couple above yours for my response to that.
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The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Quasadu
My expectation is that there will be a new tier of salvage and components like Shards or Threads that will be used to craft the next wave of Incarnate powers. Whether these will be introduced with the next wave of trials depends on whether those trials are related to the new powers or the ones we have now.
The reason I say there will be a new salvage for the new powers is the same reason we got threads instead of just using Shards again - the Devs will not want everyone to be able to stockpile enough components to just have everything on day one of the new powers going live. They will want you to do the content. |
They want you to do the .....CONTENT???
Two trials...repeated dozens of times......is content??
lol content Issue 20.
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You said they got their tier three in some slots on day one. That's not one or two trials, that's rushing. |
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
I wasn't talking about folks being stockpiled or rushing. Doing one lambda I got 54% into unlocking Interface.
This system isn't that grindy. /shrug. |
I don't think it's all that grindy either, especially just to unlock with ixp, but the rares require a considerable amount of threads being spent.
@Quasadu
"We must prepare for DOOM and hope for FREEM." - SirFrederick
Quote:
More Trials will be added, starting in I21 - and the Coming Storm will also be Trial based |
Originally Posted by Tally
They want you to do the .....CONTENT???
Two trials...repeated dozens of times......is content?? lol content Issue 20. |
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Quote:
Whether it's content you like or not, it's content. lol or not.
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Originally Posted by Tally
They want you to do the .....CONTENT???
Two trials...repeated dozens of times......is content?? lol content Issue 20. |
@Quasadu
"We must prepare for DOOM and hope for FREEM." - SirFrederick
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Your comment about the inf costs on conversions does support that a little bit, I'll concede that. But I don't think that just having the new salvage for crafting new powers is doing that. I think that's aimed at preventing the average player from having it all on day one, not the outliers.|
Originally Posted by Ironik
But the problem is that the Devs are programming for those few people, not the rest of us. Players who hit the Influence cap and earn all their shards in a fortnight burn out and disappear. Those of us who play casually stay for years and we keep spending money. So stop being retarded and designing for the ridiculous outliers who are outperforming regular players by orders of magnitude.
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(I will, however, edit this to add that one thing I do think is somewhat silly is how many new salvage items there are. I don't think we need that many items when they are all earned in exactly the same way. I'd have cut it to, say 4 commons, 2 uncommon, 2 rare, and maybe just 1 rare. Or even just matching what Alpha has, 6 common, 4 uncommon, 1 rare, 1 very rare)
@Quasadu
"We must prepare for DOOM and hope for FREEM." - SirFrederick
Yeah, they should just get rid of threads and use shards for everything. I liked those components better anyway, as well as their method of obtainment. But seriously, it was a pain to code around the two alternate ways of crafting Alpha abilities, and I still have a bit more to do...
Though I understand the reason for adding another system of salvage for the next trials as stated above, I for one will /sign this as I do hope there is less salvage to keep track of.
Also, as a sugg, perhaps they can consolidate the salvage down after an introductory period, if the point is to limit the fast influx of people getting the new shinies too quickly upon release.
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I'm not quite sure I understand what's required to get some of the tier four powers. But some of them require the very rare components. And those very rare components require hundreds of threads and 30 Empyrean merits to construct.|
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
I wasn't talking about folks being stockpiled or rushing. Doing one lambda I got 54% into unlocking Interface.
This system isn't that grindy. /shrug. |
Which means to make the four T4 powers you need 120 Empyrean merits plus many hundreds of threads plus billions of influence, plus all the T1-T3 powers and all the things required to make them.
Maybe you can get these things in other ways. But on the face of it, it looks like you need to do these two trials hundreds of times to get the top level stuff.
That sounds pretty grindy to me.
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"Or", not "and". 30 Empyrean Merits = 1 Very Rare component, or hundreds of threads + millions of inf. = 1 Very Rare component.
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Originally Posted by Rodion
those very rare components require hundreds of threads and 30 Empyrean merits
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Back to my OP, my point is simply I would like the option to mix and match which of say 4 or 6 trials I am running as I strive to get enough threads on my five or so incarnates to craft the new enhancements. Even the tier 1's.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
More Trials will be added, starting in I21 - and the Coming Storm will also be Trial based
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Two days in and I am thoroughly enjoying the grind. A year from now if I get one or two more new incarnates, I don't want to be staring down the BAF and Lambda trials going "Oh... that's STILL the only way to get the native components for my Lore, Judgment, Destiny and Interface slots."
Who knows, maybe they'll make the next trials and slots backwards compatible with additional recipes as there are now for the alpha slots. But it seems that by that point the system is going to be quite cumbersome to navigate. And since you can't simply convert shards or threads to the right salvage directly from the recipe interface (A BAD DESIGN DECISION LONGTERM IMO), I'm sure a number of people will be blowing 20 or more threads, dingii or dohickies along the way converting then to the wrong piece of randomly named semi-genre relevant salvage bits.
Again to be clear about i20 though: I have had a great time thus far playing the new content. These trials feel more like self contained minigames. Which is an interesting change of pace.
Could someone please explain to me why it bothers them so much that we have different reward tokens/currencies? It really only takes a few minutes navigating the interface to understand what does what.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
Devs,
Please for the love of peter paul and mary, do not introduce a new form of salvage or xp for the next sets of trials (and slots if they are released as part of the incarnate content)!
Why? Because though I'm really enjoying doing run after run of the two current trials, eventually I'm going to want a little variety in my endgame play. If whenever I want to work on getting salvage for these four slots, I really do not want to be limited to doing ONLY these two trials (or using the very prohibitive conversion rates).
It may seem early to some other players to start lobbying for this design decision, but based on past design decisions I believe we can't start voicing our pragmatic opinions on this topic soon enough:
For the next several trials and ideally next four slots, no new salvage (or at least root salvage: i.e. shards vs. threads) elements please!