My only real irk are the intermediate steps [common and uncommon] salvage points. They're kind of annoying. They made sense with the Alpha/Shards due to them being derived from the content that produced them, but with Threads, it's just 'annoying'.
Let's Dance!
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This is a great topic. I have wondered about the intermediates too. But here's what's so funny. The intermediates go nowhere but the top ones are needed and consumed for the next tier. So the most powerful ones will later be used at the next level.
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Originally Posted by reiella
My only real irk are the intermediate steps [common and uncommon] salvage points. They're kind of annoying. They made sense with the Alpha/Shards due to them being derived from the content that produced them, but with Threads, it's just 'annoying'.
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Why cant people just play the content and not worry about the rewards?
Don't use a spread sheet. If you're having fun playing, just play, worry about the rewards later. It's okay to make poor reward choices, you will have a lot of chances to make new ones.
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This leads me to believe that they will get rid of shards at some point. What will more than likely happen is everything will start to drop threads instead of shards and any shards you have left you can convert them to threads. Seeing as how there are so many gates to use the new components we may not see a third set of currency when the next slots come out.
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Originally Posted by EvilGeko
Every 20 hours, 10 shards can convert to 10 threads. You can take a 50% penalty to do it more often.
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~ Infinity Heroes ~
Dark Voltage - 50 NRG/NRG/EM Blaster
Shure Shot - 50 Arch/NRG/MM Blaster
Silent Shadow Blade - 50 Katana/SR/BM Scrapper
Uphir - 50 Fire/Fire/Fire Blaster
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their purpose is the same. it's just an icon change. |
Originally Posted by CodeJunkie
This leads me to believe that they will get rid of shards at some point.
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Shards are for the alpha tier, Threads are for the mid tiers. I bet we'll get another name for the Omega Tier.
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At this level, you have to consider seriously your choices. They is why people will wait. We have no option for respecing Slots. It's not about "fun" now.
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Originally Posted by Chuckles07
Why cant people just play the content and not worry about the rewards?
Don't use a spread sheet. If you're having fun playing, just play, worry about the rewards later. It's okay to make poor reward choices, you will have a lot of chances to make new ones. |
I'm surprised by some of the complexity- or the perceived complexity. It really isn't anything too different than what we already have:
-Incarnate XP could have just been a "progress meter" on a badge. Get enough to earn the badge and you unlock an incarnate slot. People are used to badges... they're even used to progress meters on them, so this would have been rather transparent.
Why didn't they do this? Possibly out of a desire to give people MORE information. Questions of "how much progress do I get for X" are bound to pop up. Plus, all Incarnate info appears in the Incarnate UI... and there are no badges there. Using the badge system would thus separate it from the Incarnate UI. If it helps, just treat it as that badge progress meter... and keep doing whatever causes you to getting closer to unlocking that badge.
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Astral, Empyrian, threads, shards, etc. Call them "stuff." All through the game, we get stuff. Some stuff is very general-purpose and appears all over the place. Other stuff is specialized to special content.
- We get architect stuff from architect content
- We get vanguard stuff from Rikti content (after becoming a member)
- We get hero/villain stuff from remaining a hero/villain in tip missions.
- We get Halloween stuff from Halloween events
- Some of that stuff is used to make other stuff
- Some of that stuff can be traded for other stuff
- Some of that stuff can be converted to other stuff.
But its all just stuff.
We see the generic stuff very early in the game, but the specific stuff is introduced to us gradually, so there shouldn't be too much information overload to the non-powerleveling-newbie. (no hero/villain stuff till tips at 20, no Vanguard stuff until 30, etc). We don't even have to track all this special stuff at once. You won't earn "halloween stuff" while going after "vanguard stuff" much. All that stuff (more or less) has a place.
... and you won't even encounter the incarnate "stuff" until you've reached level 50, so by then, all this stuff should be old news:
Each event has stages in it
- you get stuff for completing a stage
- you get other stuff for completing an event
- you get a chance for rare stuff when its all over, too.
And as the devs add new content, you can bet they'll add more stuff too.
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No you don't. If you debuff tohit instead of recharge your character will not explode (unless you bought that pack)|
Originally Posted by Residentx_EU
At this level, you have to consider seriously your choices.
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Originally Posted by Residentx_EU
They is why people will wait. We have no option for respecing Slots.
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Originally Posted by Residentx_EU
It's not about "fun" now.
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I think you're playing the wrong game then |
Originally Posted by Residentx_EU
It's not about "fun" now.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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There actually is a progress meter for the badge, which isn't any more different than the exp bar as you said.
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Originally Posted by Chase_Arcanum
-Incarnate XP could have just been a "progress meter" on a badge. Get enough to earn the badge and you unlock an incarnate slot. People are used to badges... they're even used to progress meters on them, so this would have been rather transparent.
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Heh... I knew I shoulda kept my commentary limited till I had a chance to play I20 and poke around a bit
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Originally Posted by Kailure
There actually is a progress meter for the badge, which isn't any more different than the exp bar as you said.
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I'm just wondering why the devs thought it necessary to make threads needed for crafting the Alpha slot stuff now. I was looking to see how many more shards I needed to get to make the the necessary components when I noticed that the next teir now needed components crafted from threads instead of shards.
"God, please protect us from your followers. Amen." -Serge Storms
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They didn't. You can craft Alpha with EITHER Alpha components OR non-Alpha components.
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Originally Posted by Battledog
I'm just wondering why the devs thought it necessary to make threads needed for crafting the Alpha slot stuff now. I was looking to see how many more shards I needed to get to make the the necessary components when I noticed that the next teir now needed components crafted from threads instead of shards.
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This version is hard work, Golden Girl, the college student. It requires literally billions of inf/infamy to actualize the slots(threads, shards, and salvage are not enough)...and we only have two trials right now to do it with. I don't look forward to this. I opened the four slots yesterday but I'm going back the WSTs and the low content until they build a few more trials. There's a lot to explore here until then.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
I think you're playing the wrong game then
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That's a .sig-worthy quote if ever I saw one!|
Originally Posted by Fomsie
Coming Soon!
Issue 21: Great Incarnations "Rise of the Doohickies!" *Added new Incarnate materials! 50 Doohickies will make 1 Whatsit! 10 Whatsits will make 1 Thingamabob! 5 Thingamabobs will combine into a Whatchamacallit! Whatchamacallits can be converted into Greater Doohickies... |
Don't get me wrong: I'm enjoying the heck out of the new Trials. And figuring out how all the new currencies and Incarnate enhancements work wasn't really all that much work.
But it was work, which is not why most people play video games. Obviously you will always have to put some time into figuring out how any game more complicated than Slapjack works, but for most players, there's a line beyond which they start thinking "why am I doing this...it isn't fun, and I'm not getting paid for it." For me, this new system hasn't crossed that line...but I can see it from here.
"And in this moment, I will not run.
It is my place to stand.
We few shall carry hope
Within our bloodied hands."
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After a certain point in this game, you'll have billions of Inf and tons of threads and shards. What are we going to do then? I can't trade/sell any of this stuff now. This stuff is so valuable but I can't make any money on it. I just wonder....so I take a break.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
I think you're playing the wrong game then
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It doesn't require any inf at all. There is an inf option but it's mostly for people who can't/won't do the trials or who run a lot of trials each day (so their thread earnings exceed their E Merit earnings). If you only run a trial when you will get an E Merit then your earning rate for common/uncommon components (both drops and thread crafting) should be about right for the rate you get rare/very rare components through E Merits.|
Originally Posted by Residentx_EU
This version is hard work, Golden Girl, the college student. It requires literally billions of inf/infamy to actualize...and we only have two trials right now to do it with. I don't look forward to this. I opened the four slots yesterday but I'm going back the WSTs and the low content until they build a few more trials. There's a lot to explore here until then.
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Personally that's the route I'm taking. Running the trials a bunch of times every day seems like a good way to burn myself out. Running a few trials a day and swapping characters so I always get an E Merit is much more enjoyable. Sure, it'll take me longer than someone who grinds them out as fast as possible (I haven't even unlocked the new slots yet, let alone filled them) but it's not a race.
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I'll look closer at this. Thanks for your comments. Over the past few days, I've played a few trials but everyone they drop or quit. It's frustrating. The LFG is a good idea but it doesn't seem to work right, right now. I get on teams where they aren't full. How do I join trials with full teams? Also, the All Tanker/Brute Archetypes(because of their high DPS and hit points) seem to be the only ones able to successfully complete these trials. This is not a model for group play. I don't like that at all.
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Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
It doesn't require any inf at all. There is an inf option but it's mostly for people who can't/won't do the trials or who run a lot of trials each day (so their thread earnings exceed their E Merit earnings). If you only run a trial when you will get an E Merit then your earning rate for common/uncommon components (both drops and thread crafting) should be about right for the rate you get rare/very rare components through E Merits.
Personally that's the route I'm taking. Running the trials a bunch of times every day seems like a good way to burn myself out. Running a few trials a day and swapping characters so I always get an E Merit is much more enjoyable. Sure, it'll take me longer than someone who grinds them out as fast as possible (I haven't even unlocked the new slots yet, let alone filled them) but it's not a race. |
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Honestly the LFG feature is not working at all from a social point of view. The problem is that it takes a long time to get in and you're likely to end up with a bad team. Consequently people tend to form their groups beforehand which of course makes the situation in the queue even worse. Also since the people who are willing to actually lead leagues are in all likelihood forming their own pre-formed leagues the queue formed leagues are less likely to have someone coordinating them (although as more people learn the trials this will start to change).|
Originally Posted by Residentx_EU
The LFG is a good idea but it doesn't seem to work right, right now. I get on teams where they aren't full. How do I join trials with full teams?
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The best way to do the trials at the moment is to ignore the LFG feature and form a full trial team ahead of time. Global Channels are good for this but you can also try broadcast in a co-op zone (RWZ and Pocket D are popular for this on Virtue)
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| Also, the All Tanker/Brute Archetypes(because of their high DPS and hit points) seem to be the only ones able to successfully complete these trials. This is not a model for group play. I don't like that at all. |
The thing is for this to work the different ATs need to support each other. Again this comes down to part of the social failing of the LFG tool. A pre-formed league will naturally exhibit better coordination since even if the players don't know each other before they have unconsciously entered into a defacto agreement to work together. Plus you have at least one person who is willing to take charge.
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I agree with your comments. Over the past few days, I had LFG start and then quit. I must of spent 20 minutes. I have not been on a team with 24 yet. I just wish people would just play with each other. I hate thepartiality that is arising. The Lambda has a max of 8, right. The Behavioral is the 24 one, right? Also, where is the contacts for those 20-40 trials? I would like to run those tonight. |
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
Honestly the LFG feature is not working at all from a social point of view. The problem is that it takes a long time to get in and you're likely to end up with a bad team. Consequently people tend to form their groups beforehand which of course makes the situation in the queue even worse. Also since the people who are willing to actually lead leagues are in all likelihood forming their own pre-formed leagues the queue formed leagues are less likely to have someone coordinating them (although as more people learn the trials this will start to change).
The best way to do the trials at the moment is to ignore the LFG feature and form a full trial team ahead of time. Global Channels are good for this but you can also try broadcast in a co-op zone (RWZ and Pocket D are popular for this on Virtue) Again it comes down to teamwork and coordination. If the entire league runs off in 24 different directions then yes the Tankers, Brutes and Scrappers will take the longest to fail since they are the most self-contained ATs. However a coordinated league works together and for that all ATs are useful. A pure melee league can succeed but having other ATs along makes things a whole lot easier. The support ATs make everyone tougher and stronger so enemies die faster. The ranged/AoE ATs (Blasters, Khelds and Crabs) help keep the adds on the AV under control and provide more damage against the general spawns. Control ATs can mitigate damage from all non-AVs and stop escaping minions in the BAF. Stalkers and Banes can help a lot with the equipment hunt in Lambda and their spike damage is useful against bosses and AVs. The thing is for this to work the different ATs need to support each other. Again this comes down to part of the social failing of the LFG tool. A pre-formed league will naturally exhibit better coordination since even if the players don't know each other before they have unconsciously entered into a defacto agreement to work together. Plus you have at least one person who is willing to take charge. |
Finally, I20 had a good beta with lots of involvement why didn't they catch this "social" issue then?
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Well the minimum size thing is actually an issue of the way the queue works. As soon as the queue contains the minimum number of players the trial starts. Consequently you're unlikely to get a max size trial through the queue unless a pre-formed trial joins with empty slots.|
Originally Posted by Residentx_EU
I agree with your comments. Over the past few days, I had LFG start and then quit. I must of spent 20 minutes. I have not been on a team with 24 yet. I just wish people would just play with each other. I hate thepartiality that is arising. The Lambda has a max of 8, right. The Behavioral is the 24 one, right?
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Lambda is 8-16 players, BAF is 12-24.
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| Also, where is the contacts for those 20-40 trials? I would like to run those tonight. |
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| Finally, I20 had a good beta with lots of involvement why didn't they catch this "social" issue then? |
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The coordination is another issue. I got to be the team leader on one. It's way different than the regular TF. I had to manage a lot. For example, I had to create a tab just to view the chat from all the league members. I had to switch back and forth between the team list and the chat tab and I had to scroll up and down the team list. Kind of a hassle during gameplay. In the old UI/system, I could talk to everyone by clicking the team("T") button....maybe my setup is configured wrong. I'll look at this later or maybe I'll try the trials with old UI.|
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
Honestly the LFG feature is not working at all from a social point of view. The problem is that it takes a long time to get in and you're likely to end up with a bad team. Consequently people tend to form their groups beforehand which of course makes the situation in the queue even worse. Also since the people who are willing to actually lead leagues are in all likelihood forming their own pre-formed leagues the queue formed leagues are less likely to have someone coordinating them (although as more people learn the trials this will start to change).
The best way to do the trials at the moment is to ignore the LFG feature and form a full trial team ahead of time. Global Channels are good for this but you can also try broadcast in a co-op zone (RWZ and Pocket D are popular for this on Virtue) Again it comes down to teamwork and coordination. If the entire league runs off in 24 different directions then yes the Tankers, Brutes and Scrappers will take the longest to fail since they are the most self-contained ATs. However a coordinated league works together and for that all ATs are useful. A pure melee league can succeed but having other ATs along makes things a whole lot easier. The support ATs make everyone tougher and stronger so enemies die faster. The ranged/AoE ATs (Blasters, Khelds and Crabs) help keep the adds on the AV under control and provide more damage against the general spawns. Control ATs can mitigate damage from all non-AVs and stop escaping minions in the BAF. Stalkers and Banes can help a lot with the equipment hunt in Lambda and their spike damage is useful against bosses and AVs. The thing is for this to work the different ATs need to support each other. Again this comes down to part of the social failing of the LFG tool. A pre-formed league will naturally exhibit better coordination since even if the players don't know each other before they have unconsciously entered into a defacto agreement to work together. Plus you have at least one person who is willing to take charge. |
Finally, is there a way to invite others to your trial in action? We could of salvaged a few if we just had a few more.
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There's some options here.|
Originally Posted by Residentx_EU
The coordination is another issue. I got to be the team leader on one. It's way different than the regular TF. I had to manage a lot. For example, I had to create a tab just to view the chat from all the league members. I had to switch back and forth between the team list and the chat tab and I had to scroll up and down the team list. Kind of a hassle during gameplay. In the old UI/system, I could talk to everyone by clicking the team button....maybe my setup is configured wrong. I'll look at this later or maybe I'll try the trials with old UI.
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First encourage everyone to use League Chat pretty much exclusively (it's somewhat useful to use Team chat for the weapon gathering phase of Lambda since the two teams are operating independently). That way you can talk to everyone at once.
For the Interface the league interface has a couple of arrows on the bottom right. These toggle it between three different arrangements:
1. 1 Column
2. 2 Rows
3. 1 Row
In general setting it to the 1 or 2 rows option will allow you to see all league members at once. You can also set a focus group if you're a buffer and want to focus on specific people. The only downside of the 1 row option is that if you have 4 teams the league interface detaches from the chat box.
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| Finally, is there a way to invite others to your trial in action? We could of salvaged a few if we just had a few more. |
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During one the sessions, another user said others could be invited but they had to click a special option. I don't believe the trials are fixed like TF/SFs.|
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
I don't think so, unfortunately.
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Edit: thanks for your comments Adeon. I'm heading online now.
--NT
I'll be right behind you NuclearToast. I want the powers but not right now.