Do we really have to grind these same 2 zones over and over?
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2011-04-05 17:26 in Player Questions
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Come to liberty. We ran lambdas all the time, in under 25 mins. (if i can convince people to not clear the turrets, we could lower that time even more)
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Originally Posted by Torrynt
No, you don't have to grind these two trials... because, the only one that you can easily find is the BAF. So you will be grinding the BAF over and over. At least when I've been on, that's what I've been able to find. Expect to do it a lot, expect to waste a lot of time waiting to do it a lot.
Unless they release a lot of content quickly they've done two things with this release: (1) Added a singular path for advancement that while entertaining once, is dreadful after the 10th or 20th time you run it. (2) Made all the other lvl 50 content that was decent very easy, removing it from really being much content at all. So for me, they've reduced the game to a single raid for any character that's already 50. I really really can not understand why this system was released like this. |
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So your "solution" to "Why do I have to run these trials?" is "No really, run the trials."|
Originally Posted by Arbegla
Thats a good excuse, assuming you flat out refuse to run the trial, the time shortens a lot when you just add 1 or 2 trials a day to your rotation (instead of grinding out 15+ trials a day)
Now, don't get me wrong, i want more options too, but the current 'grind' really isnt that bad right now, as everyone and thier uncle is running these trials, and most have it down to a science (baf in under 20 mins, lambda in under 25) |
People who didn't want to run a Barracuda for Alpha had an alternative. If they didn't want to run that week's WST for a Notice, they wait a week for a different one. Alpha had alternatives. To suggest that the shard method for Judgement et al is any kind of alternative is laughable. Your answer to people who don't want to run a Barracuda is "Just run the Barracuda."
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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Look, i know its not the best solution, but most of the arguments for not running the trials atlest casually is that they are too long, too hard to organize, and are too hard.|
Originally Posted by Dispari
So your "solution" to "Why do I have to run these trials?" is "No really, run the trials."
People who didn't want to run a Barracuda for Alpha had an alternative. If they didn't want to run that week's WST for a Notice, they wait a week for a different one. Alpha had alternatives. To suggest that the shard method for Judgement et al is any kind of alternative is laughable. Your answer to people who don't want to run a Barracuda is "Just run the Barracuda." |
Since day 1 I've been running lambdas in 25 mins or less, organizing them off of tells i got (remember the globals were down the first 4 hours of i20 hitting live) and managed to win the very first run i did.
That pretty much negates the basic arguements. I'm not saying grind them out as much as possible, but a trial run every other day, or even just once a week shouldn't be too hard to do, just treat it like a multi team TF and go from there.
So really, just run the trials. We all want more options, but it just isn't going to happen right now, and repeating the same arguements we had on the beta forums isn't going to make it happen any faster.
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Ouch. Sorry to hear that.|
Originally Posted by Gearsinger
There are several graphical and a few sounds effects in the game that give me migraines. Previously, I dealt with it by not teaming and not playing those sets. Now that I can't earn all the powers in game in a reasonable time frame on my own, I'm dealing with it by unsubscribing.
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Personally i got a bit tired of the assorted Incarnate runs and have been playing lowbies most of the time for the last couple weeks.
Personally i don't care if i have every power. Only one of my Incarnates bothered with the Tier 4 Alpha. The rest get enough use out of the Tier 3.
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
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I'm with you on that. I have 2 Incarnates out of 8 50's. I am in absolutely no hurry to get any of the new shineys. If they can be gotten within a week or so, then what is the point? Where is the challenge? I look to this game as a long term entertainment investment and not simply for short term gratification. |
Originally Posted by Schismatrix
Ouch. Sorry to hear that.
Personally i got a bit tired of the assorted Incarnate runs and have been playing lowbies most of the time for the last couple weeks. Personally i don't care if i have every power. Only one of my Incarnates bothered with the Tier 4 Alpha. The rest get enough use out of the Tier 3. |
The Incarnate systerm is so shallowly developed right now, I see no point in getting involved any more than I am already.
The non-Incarnate worlds are fully developed game environments that offer almost unlimited possibilites for playing. By contrast, the Incarnate world consists only of the 2 TF's and 2 Trials run over and over and over and over and over. Whoop de doo. Hardly unlimited possibilites for playing and certainly not world class, impressive game development.
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I figure once more people have the slots unlocked the standard format will be to clear one or two groups on the path and then jump over the wall and clear the courtyard to get to 60.|
Originally Posted by Arbegla
Come to liberty. We ran lambdas all the time, in under 25 mins. (if i can convince people to not clear the turrets, we could lower that time even more)
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At the moment people like to do a full clear for the IXP but as the need for that diminishes it'll be less of an issue.
No only if you want the new shinnies before anyone else,not so long ago all the moans were about farmers and now we have the moans about grinding the 2 trials please give it a rest .No one is forcing you to do the same thing over and over so why do you keep on moaning about it.I have done the Lambada 3 times I don,t find it fun as I,m still finding my way round but once I have I will then try the BAF at the rate I go I will possibly have 1 alt with the first lvl by the time the next issue come,s out.As someone posted once before its not the end result its the journey that counts 
so slow down and enjoy it .
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Fixed that for you. Since there is no viable way to get the new powers aside from running the same 2 trials over and over and over and over and over again, yes you really do have to.|
Originally Posted by Prof_Radburn
No only if you want the new shinnies.
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| No one is forcing you to do the same thing over and over so why do you keep on moaning about it? |
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As someone posted once before its not the end result its the journey that counts so slow down and enjoy it .
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It is a grind in that its repetitive and gets kinda boring quickly, but they are pretty short.|
Originally Posted by Bossa_Nova
It doesn't matter how much you do in between the runs, it's still doing the same thing over and over again. Still a grind.
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Now if the trials get longer in the future...
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Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
I figure once more people have the slots unlocked the standard format will be to clear one or two groups on the path and then jump over the wall and clear the courtyard to get to 60.
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I like watching movies a few times over; my husband can't sit still for them more than once. Some people can watch one movie a few times in a row; others, like me, would prefer to only re-watch movies we haven't seen in a while.
It's a continuum of preference; I don't know where most people fall on it. This game, due to the variety of powersets and archetypes, made it possible to change-up the library of movies enough on your own, that a lot of people could rewatch them more.
Now we have a new library of content, but it's only two movies; and calling them movies is abit of a stretch -- they're 30-minute shorts. Very fast-paced and exciting shorts to be sure, but still just shorts. We have a lot of time on our hands, and a fantastic new big-screen and home theater to watch them on, but for some people, it's still just far too few movies.
The game had a strategy to gain and retain customers; it was, loosely speaking, based on variety. So many powers and archetypes, so many different ways to fight, and a lot of different stuff to do with them -- astronomical numbers of combinations. For variety driven players, who flocked to this game on account of that existing design, the new incarnate content with its current drive for repetition, whether done in rapid succession or over many weeks, it's sure to be a disappointment. Worse for them that the developer staff hyped the new content quite a bit. Alternative to the often-requested level cap increase, approachable, casual friendly, all that. I don't think they really understood this part of their player-base very well.
I ran the BAF and Lambda trials about fifty times each this last week, with a lot of successes in with a good share of failures. I got tier-3 boosts in all four new slots, and had a lot of fun. However, I can see where a lot of other people would consider this an intolerable grind, and feel the game has changed in a very bad way. They're not playing wrong; they're not maladjusted; they're motivated to enjoy this pastime differently and are speaking from their hearts over real concerns.
I hope the developers have more incarnate oriented trials and TFs in the works, and even more incarnate storylines aimed at smaller groups. In my opnion, variety built and sustained this game, and departing from that path entirely would be a problem.
Arbegla,
Do you play your level 50s? Yes as i do when i get a chance. "Well, obviously you do, cuz you want to advance them into the incarnate system."
Do you get inf from killing mobs? Well, yes, yes you do. Not 2.5 mill needed to get the IXP this still takes time, again for the casual player who is still trying to get IO sets like i said earlier. Your missing the point, im not in a hurry to unlock the new sets I just want more choices than 2 trials. They have taken a game that was said to be for solo and teams if we wanted and made it team only for new content.
Do you get shards from also killing mobs? "Again yes." Maybe, not very often though like last night i played +2 lvls +6 mob with bosses and only got 1 shard drop out of 4 missions.
Do you get more inf then shards from killing mobs? "Yes. Shards drop at a much lower rate then most recipes drop at." Yes they drop at a really low rate compared to recipes, i can max out my recepies almost every 2 missions.
So im trying to get your point from these questions on how its not a grind on the same 2 trials for IXP and the new content? I dont see why we are forced to play just those 2 trials for the new content with a new salvage system again. Also if someone can explain how people are unlocking the Judgement, Lore....etc so fast on a couple runs when i ran Baf failed 5 and won 1 and im still only 28% into my Judgement slot?
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This. I don't know how many ppl are thinking ahead for when IXP becomes meaningless (very, very soon), but I cringe when I see ppl actually buying IXP w/threads. Even the thread drops are of diminished importance, since the bulk of your threads will come from A-merit (and prolly excess uncommon salvage) breakups.|
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
At the moment people like to do a full clear for the IXP but as the need for that diminishes it'll be less of an issue.
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I'm thinking about a minute to clear enough of the circuit to open the base (it currently takes under 2 min to clear the whole thing, using my Judgment nuke as a 90s lap timer
), another minute or 2 to clear some of the courtyard, 5 min inside, 10 min to watch the damn cut scene (is that long? That's what it feels like), and another 2-3 min to off Marauder. I totally can see a < 15 min Lamda run in the near future.
An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
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If your filling up your recipes every 2 missions, and NOT making 2.5 million inf from selling them, then its your own problem. Common recipes sell for about 50k to 100k inf to a vendor, so if you fill up your recipes as quickly as you do, then making 2.5 million inf is a walk in the park.|
Originally Posted by Zercon
Arbegla,
Do you play your level 50s? Yes as i do when i get a chance. "Well, obviously you do, cuz you want to advance them into the incarnate system." Do you get inf from killing mobs? Well, yes, yes you do. Not 2.5 mill needed to get the IXP this still takes time, again for the casual player who is still trying to get IO sets like i said earlier. Your missing the point, im not in a hurry to unlock the new sets I just want more choices than 2 trials. They have taken a game that was said to be for solo and teams if we wanted and made it team only for new content. Do you get shards from also killing mobs? "Again yes." Maybe, not very often though like last night i played +2 lvls +6 mob with bosses and only got 1 shard drop out of 4 missions. Do you get more inf then shards from killing mobs? "Yes. Shards drop at a much lower rate then most recipes drop at." Yes they drop at a really low rate compared to recipes, i can max out my recepies almost every 2 missions. So im trying to get your point from these questions on how its not a grind on the same 2 trials for IXP and the new content? I dont see why we are forced to play just those 2 trials for the new content with a new salvage system again. Also if someone can explain how people are unlocking the Judgement, Lore....etc so fast on a couple runs when i ran Baf failed 5 and won 1 and im still only 28% into my Judgement slot? |
The reason why its taking your longer to unlock your judgement slot is because your failing the BAFs. when you succeed you get more iXP (as the AVs are worth a TON of iXP, the escapees are basically free iXP, and the bosses that ambush with the AVs give a ton of iXP, but if you fail, then your not going to earn as much iXP)
Also, you want to make sure your on a full team. If its just you trying to kill things then your league mates are going to be stealing your iXP. Threads, recipes and such are league wide drops, but iXP are team wide drops, so you want to make sure your teams are balanced as best as you can get them.
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Just as a general point you can open the outer door and enter the courtyard without clearing the 60 mobs, you just can't enter the inner door. I figure if you run the circuit CCW from the spawn point to the door and then clear the courtyard that should give you the best efficiency.
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Originally Posted by dave_p
I'm thinking about a minute to clear enough of the circuit to open the base (it currently takes under 2 min to clear the whole thing, using my Judgment nuke as a 90s lap timer
), another minute or 2 to clear some of the courtyard, 5 min inside, 10 min to watch the damn cut scene (is that long? That's what it feels like), and another 2-3 min to off Marauder. I totally can see a < 15 min Lamda run in the near future. |
Mmm...
As a general rule, you don't want to skip content. This is one of those occassions that ghosting is not a good thing, with the exception of LAMBDA where you have a very limited time to get 10 weapon caches and 10 Personnel Holding Containers. Sadly because in a timer, you have to spike and run. It would be nice from a thread earning eprspective if this part was not timed, so many mobs to defeat, oh my, the lost opportunity to earn goodies.
The reason you may not want to skip content at all, is that for each kill you do get a chance to get a thread, and a random complexity component drop. Thus far I received common and rare component drops during the execution of either trial. Admittedly those drops are a rare event, but I usually get a component drop once every eight trials, which is pretty good in my book.
I expect in the future, there will be other alternate ways to unlock incarnate slots, and to earn threads as well.
Sue
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Your understanding of how numbers work is horribly flawed. This chain of reasoning you have here is only valid for certain values of "more inf then shards" (also, the word is "than").
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Originally Posted by Arbegla
Do you get more inf then shards from killing mobs? Yes. Shards drop at a much lower rate then most recipes drop at.
If you answered Yes to all of the above questions, then you can afford to convert shards into threads. |
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#1 it's still a grind even if you can do it quickly - even more of a grind given the effect of sitting through that cut scene for the 10th time.|
Originally Posted by Arbegla
Now, don't get me wrong, i want more options too, but the current 'grind' really isnt that bad right now, as everyone and thier uncle is running these trials, and most have it down to a science (baf in under 20 mins, lambda in under 25)
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#2 your times don't include the 40-60 minute waits on getting a team ready.
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Good, then pay my subscription.
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Originally Posted by Schismatrix
i'd accept it.
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Thread drops pale in comparison to Astral Merits. You get an A-Merit for certain fixed tasks as well as badges, so those bonus A-Merits are one time only. I suspect the bonus component drops are for those badges also, but I haven't confirmed this. Even if they are completely random drops, they're rare enough that you're better off generating the random table at the end more often, i.e. faster trial times. Once you get all the badges out of the way, the absolute fastest way to earn your T4s will be to speed through each trial as fast as you can to earn the fixed # of A-Merits plus the random table at the end.|
Originally Posted by Stormfront_NA
The reason you may not want to skip content at all, is that for each kill you do get a chance to get a thread, and a random complexity component drop. Thus far I received common and rare component drops during the execution of either trial. Admittedly those drops are a rare event, but I usually get a component drop once every eight trials, which is pretty good in my book.
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Just as an example, factoring out badge drops, a BAF should earn you 4 A-merits and likely around 4-5 thread drops, assuming you kill most things you face and you don't farm the N & S fight at the end for IXP. Those 4 A-Merits are now worth 16 threads. How many more mobs are you going to have to kill to get that many thread drops? Trust me, going forward, the hard core grinders will be doing the absolute minimum to get through each trial and rinsing & repeating often.
An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
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The only time I saw a component drop was for stopping all the escapees.
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Originally Posted by dave_p
I suspect the bonus component drops are for those badges also, but I haven't confirmed this.
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Was that the first time for that toon, i.e. tied to a badge? I wasn't paying too much attention to when those random drops were happening, but the only time I observed one was on a badge. I also noticed that I stopped getting those random drops after I'd collected most of the badges (along w/the extra Astral drops).
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Originally Posted by rsclark
The only time I saw a component drop was for stopping all the escapees.
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An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
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Earning one of the badges within the trials grants a 1 time component drop.
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Originally Posted by dave_p
Was that the first time for that toon, i.e. tied to a badge? I wasn't paying too much attention to when those random drops were happening, but the only time I observed one was on a badge. I also noticed that I stopped getting those random drops after I'd collected most of the badges (along w/the extra Astral drops).
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I never spend more then 10 mins forming, or reforming a team. I lead my own teams, and can clear lambda in about 20 mins, Baf in about 15. Just because you can't, doesn't mean others can't as well.|
Originally Posted by rsclark
#1 it's still a grind even if you can do it quickly - even more of a grind given the effect of sitting through that cut scene for the 10th time.
#2 your times don't include the 40-60 minute waits on getting a team ready. |
The cut scenes are about 1 minute long in length, which means you have a forced bio break in the middle, which actually cuts down on the grind. You know at the start of Baf as your loading in, you can go bio, or refill your drink, or heck, even stretch a little bit. Same for the near ending of Lambda. I'd love a way to skip the cut scenes, but instead of complain about them, i just find a way to use them to my advantage.
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Originally Posted by rsclark
Your understanding of how numbers work is horribly flawed. This chain of reasoning you have here is only valid for certain values of "more inf then shards" (also, the word is "than").
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Heck, just running the trials, crafting the drops i get from that, and vendoring the level 53 IOs i've made about 200 million inf. And that is from just playing the game normally, not marketeering at all.
Inf isn't your crutch, and trying to say it is the crutch is just idiotic in nature. Threads and shards are you crutch, as inf drops like rain in this game, even if you avoid the market completely.
No, you don't have to grind these two trials... because, the only one that you can easily find is the BAF. So you will be grinding the BAF over and over. At least when I've been on, that's what I've been able to find. Expect to do it a lot, expect to waste a lot of time waiting to do it a lot.
Unless they release a lot of content quickly they've done two things with this release:
(1) Added a singular path for advancement that while entertaining once, is dreadful after the 10th or 20th time you run it.
(2) Made all the other lvl 50 content that was decent very easy, removing it from really being much content at all.
So for me, they've reduced the game to a single raid for any character that's already 50. I really really can not understand why this system was released like this.