In Which I Immediately Regret My Hubris

Introduction

So for a while I was wondering what to do for my next guide project. Perhaps something on pet grooming, or Internet Sugar Daddies: the Art of Prostitution Without Getting Screwed. Maybe audiobook versions of all my guides, for the illiterate or merely lazy.

For anyone who has read uh, basically any of my other guides, I can imagine a certain amount of skepticism at me writing a melee guide.

BUT

I did a great deal of soul-searching, long walks on the beach as the sun set and generally thinking about melee.

I came to a conclusion and it is as follows:

It wasn't melee making me mad, just the people that play them!

Isn’t that great? I thought so too.

I then thought well, why do I hate them?. That answer took me a lot less time to come up with, namely “their stupid horseshit on teams”. Being a loving, tolerant sort of fellow I couldn’t care less about melee horseshit when they’re solo :3

No, in all seriousness this is actually a guide for teamy stuff for melee types. Like, for real and also for serious. If you only ever solo with your Scrapper/Stalker/Brute/Tanker, you’re free to go. Everyone else, please remain seated. Contained herein will be advicings, tips and various melee animal facts.

In my mind, playing melee effectively on a team no matter the AT boils down to two factors. One: damage and two: aggro control. Since there’s a great deal of overlap in how these factors are relevant to the 4 melee ATs (5-6 if you count Banes/NWs which I do not because COUNTING IS DIFFICULT) I’ll be talking about them in terms of general considerations rather than specifically Stalker/Brute/Scrapper/Tanker sections.

Why Damage and Aggro Control?

Before I continue into the actual substance of this guide, I should clarify the above terms.

Damage: This one is simple, basically hitting things and/or killing stuff. If you’re only controlling aggro but not contributing any damage (yes, even Tanker damage) you suck at melee. Secondly, the damage you contribute has to be maximised and it has to be relevant to the team. If you’re off fighting stuff halfway across the map, well, we’re all just super duper impressed but your damage would be much better utilised where all the buffs/debuffs are and killing stuff the team is fighting.

Aggro control: This one requires a little more explanation. I’m not suggesting all Tankers/Brutes be tauntbots, (quite the opposite, in fact), but that when playing melee, aggro control should be a consideration. You don’t need Taunt/Challenge/Provoke/a taunt aura to control aggro. Aggro control is also about controlling the flow of a fight, prioritizing targets and mob positioning, not just getting punched in the head so the other guys don’t. As a melee player, you’re by and large much better equipped to deal with aggro than squishies, so you should try to control aggro.
So, without further ado:

How to Not Be Bad at Melee:

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Stick with the team: While Scrappers are generally the main offenders here, I see it from all ATs. If you’re a Scrapper/Brute/Stalker, you’ve got good ST and/or AoE damage. It’ll be much better leveraged if you’re with the team so you can get all the awesome buffs and smash the debuffed mobs into bits. If the team goes one way and you go another, finish up and go catch up with them. If you want to decide the pacing and path you take, either solo or lead the team. Don’t run off and insist on doing your own thing just because you can. It’s frustrating for people with buffs and you’re not contributing anywhere near the damage you could be. Now, I’m not saying you should stick with the team always no matter what no exceptions because there are always exceptions. Think of it this way: imagine a bungee cord tied around your waist. You can zip off to other spawns, piss them off and then snap back to your team, dragging more mobs to the slaughter with you. You can run off ahead of the team to get to a room first to gather up the mobs so when the team arrives they’re in a neat little pile to be shredded. You can run off to quickly kill some objective mobs before bouncing back. What I’m saying is, exercise judgement. Never straying from the team is equally idiotic as insisting on running off and doing your own thing, if less detrimental

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Leading the Team: Another side to sticking with the team is leading them, if/where applicable. As a melee character, you’ve got a primary or secondary set dedicated almost entirely to keeping you alive. This is a luxury other ATs don’t have. This makes you one of the best people to start a fight and soak the alpha. This applies most if you’re a Tanker, but also for the other ATs. There is almost nothing worse than a cowardly Tanker. Chances are you’re the toughest person on the team by a not insignificant margin. You should be first into the spawns. Don’t be afraid to set the pace. You can still lead the team if you’re a Stalker, with all the eccentricities that entails. AS the nastiest thing in the spawn, scrap it out. Since the Stalker changes Stalkers are scrappier than ever before and since you know, you’re on a team, you’ll have other people there to help. This also has a use in smart application of damage for AS. If you AS something tough like a boss, the AS debuff will debuff the spawn and really reduce the alpha damage. Weigh up whether the best way to leverage the AS would be to take a chunk out of the boss and debuff the spawn or instantly drop a nasty minion/lt.

Which brings us nicely to…

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Target Prioritization: Knowing which mobs can do what and their respective threats is important. Maybe not to you, as a softcapped mez-protected beast with upwards of two thousand hitpoints, but it may be a concern to the squishier team members. This is about smart application of damage. Choosing what to attack is as important as attacking in the first place. Choosing what to attack is both important for damage, in dropping the biggest threat first and for aggro control, because my experience is that that things I try to gut ARE NONE TOO PLEASED ABOUT IT. Imagine a large-sized Malta spawn. Sappers are a threat, the Tac Ops dudes are a threat to squishies because of their AoE long duration stuns, Gunslinger bosses are a threat because they can do a lot of damage quickly and TP around so you want them locked down. Learn what to focus on given the makeup of your team and the situation. If you’re a Tanker, Gauntlet gives you the luxury of being able to juggle several of these tasks more easily than other melee ATs. By punching the biggest thing in the head, you’ll also get aggro on the stuff around it and have Taunt to use on stuff out of reach.

Hell, speaking of which…

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Taunt (and Taunting powers): Now, Taunt has always gotten a lot of flack. First of all because it sucked compared to Provoke, then when it got buffed because a lot of people objected to the idea of being a Tauntbot. GOOD NEWS EVERYONE! Being a Tauntbot means you’re bad at Tanking. Every time I see a Tanker using Taunt from range before they enter a spawn, I facepalm. Every time I see a Tanker running into a spawn and using Taunt on the stuff right-fracking-next to them, I facepalm. Every time I see a Tanker use Taunt on stuff that is already well pissed off at them, I facepalm. My face, you guys, my poor face. I need it to eat and breathe and stuff, have mercy. Taunt, (and to a lesser degree Challenge and Provoke), are aggro-I-Win buttons. So…rather than spamming them like an idiot, use them on stuff you want to (here’s the tricky part) win aggro on. Stuff that’s not within range of your BRUTAL FACE PUNCHINGS, taunt/damage aura or PBAoE attacks. Stuff that’s off to the side about to bifurcate a squishy. There is also the neat trick of messing with -range on Taunt, but more on that later. Not Taunting at all is bad. Taunting too much is also bad. Taunt has a 5 target cap, ranged AoEs are 16 and PBAoEs are 10. So you can aggro 2-3 times as many mans using them rather than Taunt. Please use Taunt like…smart. Here’s how I break it down: If you hop into a spawn, anything that got nicked by your aura on your way to the middle is going to be mad at you, as is anything hit by your PBAoE attack if you open with it. That leaves Taunt for anything particularly nasty/multiple dudes out of your range. Time spamming Taunt is time better spent attacking and contributing damage. Technical Aside: the way threat works is a combination of damage/debuffs applied to the mob and Taunt. Taunt acts like a multiplier for whatever threat you already have on the mob. That means if you’re Taunting stuff you’ve already Taunted instead of attacking, WHOOPS, YOU’RE AN IDIOT. The less offensive way to put this would be: using Taunt in conjunction with attacking is the best way to get and keep aggro. Edit: Aggro can be screwy sometimes, so using Taunt more often to make sure the AV is taunted to you isn't a bad idea. Still don't spam it, but you know, use it occasionally. Doesn't have to be that often at all, since even at base it has a stupidly long duration. Also try and get a feel for whether something is aggroed on you or not. It sounds dumb, but yeah. Moving round to the side of the AV has a dual purpose. It aims all the cones and AoEs at you so the team doesn't get caught by splash and you can clearly tell when the AV is swinging at you.

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Cooperative, not Competitive Aggro: If there are other melee dudes on the team, you want to be cooperating with them for aggro, not competing with them. Yes, it is hilarious and rad to wrench aggro off a Tanker by dint of kicking orders of magnitude more anus, but most of the time its not gonna help the team any more. If you guys are gathering mobs up, don't gather up the same stuff the other guy is. Work together and grab separate spawns and bring them together for massive AoEing. Often on teams melee dudes will each go off their own way, assuming leadership but not communicating well. So you've got people herding and fighting on entirely different areas of the map, because neither of them is a big enough man to go back and fight with the rest of the team. This is bad, and people who do this should feel bad. A friend raised an excellent point, namely that the deciding of who is 'leading' and who is the assist is tricky. Usually unspoken, too. But it also doesn't have to strictly be that way. Be flexible. If you see the other melee dude is doing some crazy awesome stuff, go join him in it. Don't refuse to be a team player because of ego nonsense. In the beginning of a team, try and gauge how the other melee dudes (not just the rest of the team) is playing. If they're really timid, you might want to be more aggressive in leading the charges.

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Positioning: Where you stand while you kick heads in is important for several reasons. A lot of stuff aggroed on you will try to close to melee range, so clever positioning helps you get as many mobs as possible into your and your teammates AoEs. Bunched mobs = bigger Fulcrum Shifts, bigger Heat Losses, maximised AoE attacks, all kinds of delicious stuff. At least until some shitwizard who never turns off Hurricane hops in the middle of things but I guess THAT'S LIFE. Learn how to mess with Line of Sight. It’s really straightfoward. If the mobs can’t see you, they can’t attack you. If they’re aggroed on you, they will try to see you so they can attack you. So if you’ve got stuff aggroed on you, hop round a corner. Duck behind a crate/pillar/whatever. Stuff will bunch up around the corner to take a shot at you. They’ll bunch up delightfully to be mass debuffed and butchered. Mess with LoS to bunch mobs up. If you can just hop right in the middle of a spawn and they’ll all clump up on you, great. But sometimes mobs aren’t that cooperative, sometimes the terrain isn’t suited for it, whatever. The somewhat new –range debuff on Taunt also allows Line of Sight-esque shenanigans without actually blocking LoS. Hitting stuff with Taunt will cripple their range, forcing them to come closer to take a shot at you. If you’ve got a lot of stuff shooting at you from afar but can’t really block LoS or whatever, using Taunt even if they’re already aggroed can help bunch them up. Bear in mind there is a difference between this and full-on herding. Herding doesn’t really exist anymore, since you can only have 17 mobs aggroed on you. Anything new aggroed over that limit will bump something else off the list. This means gathering mobs up is more important than trundling off to try and grab entire rooms. Really good mob gathering comes down to two things. Speed and efficacy. If gathering up the mobs would take more time than would be saved by nuking them all down together, don’t bother. Hell, with their fondness for melee most mobs gather themselves. If trying to herd results in more stray mobs and loose aggro than otherwise, don’t do it. Clumping spawns > herding. This gives a sizeable advantage to non-damage Taunt auras because they tick more quickly and tend to have an autohit component. With something like AAO, Invincibility and to a lesser extent, RttC you can literally run past something and it’ll be taunted on you.

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Positional Awareness: Being able to maximise your damage and aggro control on a team requires that you keep your head on a swivel. When I’m playing my Scrapper I keep my camera just as zoomed out as when I’m playing any of my Corruptors so that I can keep an eye on as much of the fight as I can and react accordingly. Emphasis on being able to react accordingly. Scrapperlock is the worst absolute worst thing on a team. I’m sorry, but it is. God knows I empathize, I often feel myself slipping into it playing my Scrapper. But that singlemindedness, that tunnel vision totally, totally sucks for contributing as much as you can to a team. Going off and doing your own thing just because you can? Congratulations, you suck at teaming. If you’re good at melee you should be able to deliver just as much butchery and dead mobs as someone in the throes of Scrapperlock. If anything, you should be able to deliver much more because you’ll be attacking where you can maximise your damage. Unless you’re fighting dentists, whose extensive knowledge of topical anaesthesia means that fighting a dentist is like hitting a bag of angry meat. Moral of the Story: DO NOT FIGHT A DENTIST, YOU WILL ONLY LOSE

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How Silas Be Doin It: Tadaa! So I’ve got 2 main melee dudes. My SS/Fire Brute, who is largely an agricultural tool and my KM/SD Scrapper. Since the Brute is pretty much just for farming, we move swiftly onto the Scrapper. He was actually made from the ground-up to be my default melee dude for teams and Task Forces, for those one in a million times where we don’t already have melee and b) there is no b, stop right there, criminal scum! Going from playing support almost exclusively to playing melee on teams was a lot like walking through a mirror. Everything is familiar, but different. Many things are reversed and also I was covered in shards of glass and bleeding all over my body. I had to be right next to things to hit them, what was the deal with that? The reason I chose to make my main melee dude KM/SD is for several reasons though. I mean, I thought it was cool but I also thought the combo had a lot of potential and powerset synergy, both important things to consider for melee characters. This is the main point here, more on this in like, a minute. I swear. God, what a nag you are. Using my KM/SD as an example, the powersets complement one another in a few ways. Both sets have –damage to stack, KM is a bit lacking in AoE which Shield Charge makes up for and the sets together have a lot of +damage for you. All the damage debuffs in KM/SD also help for aggro generation because the –damage isn’t actually one debuff, its 6-8 debuffs (one for each damage type. Fun Fact: the KM attacks debuff all damage types but tox/psy, AAO debuffs all 8 kinds).

So:

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Powerset Choice: In the terrifying halls of my mind, I see powerset choice coming down to three factors. First of all, as mentioned above, if you like the character idea/sets. Don’t roll something you don’t enjoy. But then comes the delicious crunchy powergaming considerations, namely synergy and potential. The realm of brutal, crushing efficiency and power. Be aware what your powersets can do and how to achieve it. Bear in mind what their given strengths and weaknesses are. For example, DM has great utility and ST damage but is a little weak on AoE. ElM has great AoE, but yo’ mommas MRP build got mo’ ST DPS. If you’re building with IOs, which you really have no reason not to*, try and work out how to make the most of your character. Even if it’s just frankenslotting to get the most out of each power. Quote: *Being poor ain’t no excuse. Dumping your stuff on the market as you level gets you plenty of inf and if you play something at level 50, hot burning inf is pumped directly into your rectum. Also, market forums. Go there, read the guides, learn how to make stupid amounts of money then troll by saying that manipulation is ruining everything for the casual player. Or complain about inflation, bonus points if you don’t understand how it works. Everyone wins.

So uh, I guess that about wraps it up. I’ll probably be adding more stuff to this guide as I think of it. Hope this was of some use

mmm melee guide <3

"With great moustache comes great responsibility" - Zee Captain

Wuts Melee?

Hmph well it is a good guide but putting I hate you at the start of it probably means it won't be read by the people who need to read it.

Agreed on many points.

One thing I'd add-know your limits. If you are playing Mr. toughguy to your friend's squishiness, it's easy to think of oneself as being stronger. But every armor set has a weakness, so when you see something that can kill you, think of what your team can do to cover it for you. You pretending there's no problem, then faceplanting can slow the team down, all the more silly if your team could've had your back. If a certain foe does psychic damage to my invulnerability tanker, I ask the control/damage department of my team to take them first. If my brute has endurance problems, I give the dominator time to hold/confuse/etc. the sapper before jumping in.

An aside: not sure where you heard the AV taunt not being autohit. Source? From all documentation etc, all classes of PvE are autohit with taunt, it just sometimes affects them differently. I have had AV's get skittish and start target hopping even after being taunted, (Reichsman) but that seems an AI thing as it worked until he was low health. Also, you might being seeing something stealing aggro by having a higher threat level from some action.

awesome and entertaining guide as usual

Something else to consider is the level of mobs you are encountering. Nasty purples are not going to get dragged around solely from a lone tic of an aura. They need to marinate for a bit before they realize the taunt soup has them covered. This is especially true if you have some trigger happy teamers throwing the kitchen sink around.

Therefore a well placed taunt (which will not miss) can help corral the baddies early and keep them glued to the tanker. In my experience being proactive is the best solution (especially on a PUG) because players in general are very impatient and will not give most tankers time to establish aggro.

lol melee

Juzam_Djinn, A good point. I'll add something about it to the guide this afternoon. Thanks for the input

Oz, Now you know as well as I do that one or two well played melee characters can be a great help to a team. It's just that well played melee characters are rarer than rooster teeth

I mostly play my Corrs on teams (particularly on GOOD teams), but I've been known to PUG it up on my Broots (usually at someone's invitation ... I normally play my Broots when soloing).

I'll be honest, I hear where you're coming from in your commentary on melees running away, but thinking about it from the average melee perspective ... I solo on +3/x8 with my good melee toons, and I generally don't break a sweat while doing it. I always call point on my melee toons (because lets face it, if you're not spawn diving on a Brute, you're doing it wrong).

I guess what I'm getting at is this - your guide's great, but it needs some choice suggestions for how to respond to squishies on bad pug teams that choose not to follow you and then die (because they're not named Silas, amirite?). I'm partial to the classic Nelson voice "HA HA", but a little dry British humor never hurts.

thx!

I'm one of those weirdos that prefers playing Brutes. Even worse, I'm one of those weirdos that prefers Fly or Super Jump instead of Super Speed. Until Issue 19, none of my characters even had Super Speed or stealth. Now with inherent Fitness, I've managed to work them in to my builds at level 49. But that leaves my characters 44 levels without super speed and stealth.

When I'm exemplared below level 45 and on a stealth mission, I don't want to be dead weight and door sit while everyone else on the team is stealth rushing to the last room. If I'm on a Brute, I leave my taunt aura on, and Ninja Run to the last room of the mission to catch up with the rest of the team, while trying to aggro as many mobs on the way as possible, and see how many I manage to pull to the last room with me. I essentially make a minigame out of aggro.

Does that make me a bad melee teammate?

I wouldn't say so. You can still rush to the last room with Fly or SJ though, just slower than SS and in short hops respectively.

At least you're trying to make it to the end room and you'll be bringing mobs to slaughter with you

To be honest, the "team soloing" happens with more than melee characters- any really strong character from any archetype can handle a large spawn. Melee just have easier access (at times) due to the armor, but dominators, controllers, and masterminds can do it on SO's pretty easily as well, with little to no danger.

When your character CAN do this, it's a temptation to show off- but let's look at this from both the pragmatic and player perspectives. Pragmatically, if you can kill a mob and boss or two in 5-6 attacks, your team can attack while you do, so you are spared that last one or two hits. Also, you are limited to one power activation at a time, possibly with a toggle or two running. A full team can activate eight-numbers wise, there is no way even the best solo can outdo 8 players working concurrently.

Player wise, you can prove you are 'better' (stronger defensively/offensively) than your team members, but this can easily become a jerk move. Those members are other people, playing characters they like. If you have to have the spotlight, prove how much you don't need your allies, they don't get time to shine. Relying on a team is never a sign of weakness, it's a way to let everyone feel needed. This way, when the team achieves something they share in the sense of accomplishment, instead of feeling like they simply tagged along. Even if the win is 60% all you, you uber player you, that 40% makes the other players a lot happier than if you make it all about you.