Kinetic Melee questions
By
Boomie,
Posted on: 2011-03-18 12:53 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
Quote:
Yes, the -Dam only applies when PS is running.|
Originally Posted by Roderick
Just a couple quick questions that I can't figure out from the in-game numbers.
1> It looks like the +Acc and +Dam bonuses only apply while Power Siphon is active. Is the -Dam on foes only during Power Siphon, or at all times? |
Quote:
|
2> What is the crit chance for Concentrated Strike? Is it the same for both Stalkers and Scrappers? On a Stalker, does CS have a higher crit chance when allies are nearby, like their regular attacks do, and does it auto-crit from Hide? Thanks in advance! |
RaikenX is currently seeking new quotes to add to his signature.
Someone say something funny.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
::looks at RaikenX's signature::
Something funny. |
Quote:
I may be wrong, as I still haven't made a KM character, but AFAIK, all of that was wrong. Again, this is just from what I remember, but I thought the -Dam was always active, like DM's -to-hit is always active. And I thought that CS had a constant crit rate above the norm, like a flat 15 or 20 percent no matter what.
|
Originally Posted by RaikenX
Yes, the -Dam only applies when PS is running.
Standard Crit Rules apply. For Scrappers, 5% chance for minion and under, 10% for LT and above. Stalkers get their normal crit rate of 10% +3% for every ally in range. And no...no auto-crit from hide. That said, I've seen CS critical 2-3 times in a row and kept PS going solid for 40-60 seconds in my Kinelec scrapper. |
I believe the -Dam always applies, even if you haven't taken Power Siphon. It's not strong enough to really notice except on things you can stack it on but it's there.
As far as Concentrated Strike goes, I've heard it's a flat 20% crit chance or so but I'm not sure.
Cascade, level 50 Blaster (NRG/NRG since before it was cool)
Mechmeister, level 50 Bots / Traps MM
FAR too many non-50 alts to name
[u]Arcs[u]
The Scavenger Hunt: 187076
The Instant Lair Delivery Service: 206636
There is a zero chance for critical with Concentrated Strike. It instead is front loaded with damage and has a 20% chance to recharge power siphon(scrap) build up(stalk).
Elec/Cold Troller AV/Pylon/GM/TF/SF Soloing Antics
everytime...he gets me everytime.... DAMN U BOOMIE
-- _Ilr_
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Pyro_Master_NA
I may be wrong, as I still haven't made a KM character, but AFAIK, all of that was wrong. Again, this is just from what I remember, but I thought the -Dam was always active, like DM's -to-hit is always active. And I thought that CS had a constant crit rate above the norm, like a flat 15 or 20 percent no matter what.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by StrykerX
I believe the -Dam always applies, even if you haven't taken Power Siphon. It's not strong enough to really notice except on things you can stack it on but it's there.
As far as Concentrated Strike goes, I've heard it's a flat 20% crit chance or so but I'm not sure. |
Example:
Quick Strike for level 50 Scrapper
39.41 smashing damage on target
13.14 energy damage on target
25.00%% chance for 0.70 magnitude knockback on target
5.00%% chance for 52.55 energy damage on target
Only against minions and underlings
10.00%% chance for 52.55 energy damage on target
Only against targets tougher than minion class
+Grants power Power Siphon to kSiphonMode
-5.63% strength to smashing damage for 4.00s on target
Ignores buffs and enhancements unresistable
-5.63% strength to lethal damage for 4.00s on target
Ignores buffs and enhancements unresistable
-5.63% strength to fire damage for 4.00s on target
Ignores buffs and enhancements unresistable
-5.63% strength to cold damage for 4.00s on target
Ignores buffs and enhancements unresistable
-5.63% strength to energy damage for 4.00s on target
Ignores buffs and enhancements unresistable
-5.63% strength to negative energy damage for 4.00s on target
Ignores buffs and enhancements unresistable
Now...i could be wrong on the "Crit Rate" for CS. I know it doesn't do extra damage, and never did, but instead it's "crits" recharged PS/BU instantly. However, since the details never listed an exact number, and the power description never states that it has a higher than normal chance, i admit...i guessed.
EDIT:
My Apologies, folkz. It seems that I was mistaken. Pyro and Stryker are right in that the -Dam does indeed always apply. I just hopped in game, crafted a power analyzer mkIII and started hitting people, and the -Dam applied even without PS running. Which means...the power details LIIIIEEEEED. I was going by what i read and how i understood it, but thanks to Pyro and Stry...i have seen the light.
RaikenX is currently seeking new quotes to add to his signature.
Someone say something funny.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
::looks at RaikenX's signature::
Something funny. |
Quote:
I know that this is basically a matter of semantics and pedantery, but the in-game description says that Critical hits from Concentrated Strike do no additional damage and instead instantly recharges (whichever build up-type power you get). That's why I referred to it as a Crit, and still feel justified in doing so: the power description itself uses that terminology.|
Originally Posted by Boomie
There is a zero chance for critical with Concentrated Strike. It instead is front loaded with damage and has a 20% chance to recharge power siphon(scrap) build up(stalk).
|
Thanks to everyone who provided information and/or tested the conflicting answers!
@Roderick
Quote:
I see no harm in referring to it as a crit. The only reason I personally don't refer to it as such because it doesn't do the extra damage. I'd LOVE for it to do crit dmg though.|
Originally Posted by Roderick
I know that this is basically a matter of semantics and pedantery, but the in-game description says that Critical hits from Concentrated Strike do no additional damage and instead instantly recharges (whichever build up-type power you get). That's why I referred to it as a Crit, and still feel justified in doing so: the power description itself uses that terminology.
Thanks to everyone who provided information and/or tested the conflicting answers! |
Elec/Cold Troller AV/Pylon/GM/TF/SF Soloing Antics
everytime...he gets me everytime.... DAMN U BOOMIE
-- _Ilr_Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
Quote:
Well, it doesn't *really* lie...You must have read it as:|
Originally Posted by RaikenX
My Apologies, folkz. It seems that I was mistaken. Pyro and Stryker are right in that the -Dam does indeed always apply. I just hopped in game, crafted a power analyzer mkIII and started hitting people, and the -Dam applied even without PS running. Which means...the power details LIIIIEEEEED. I was going by what i read and how i understood it, but thanks to Pyro and Stry...i have seen the light.
|
Quote:
+Grants power Power Siphon to kSiphonMode-5.63% strength to smashing damage for 4.00s on target |
Quote:
|
+Grants power Power Siphon to kSiphonMode -5.63% strength to smashing damage for 4.00s on target Ignores buffs and enhancements unresistable -5.63% strength to lethal damage for 4.00s on target Ignores buffs and enhancements unresistable ect. |
Quote:
1) The -Dam works all the time(which is why it's low compared to the +Dam that comes with Power Siphon)|
Originally Posted by Roderick
Just a couple quick questions that I can't figure out from the in-game numbers.
1> It looks like the +Acc and +Dam bonuses only apply while Power Siphon is active. Is the -Dam on foes only during Power Siphon, or at all times? 2> What is the crit chance for Concentrated Strike? Is it the same for both Stalkers and Scrappers? On a Stalker, does CS have a higher crit chance when allies are nearby, like their regular attacks do, and does it auto-crit from Hide? Thanks in advance! |
2) I *think* 15%. It will never deal double damage from Criticals, it will only recharge Power Siphon/Build Up.
The plastic tips at the end of shoelaces are called aglets. Their true purpose is sinister.
--The Question, JLU
I use a Kinetic/Energy stalker...
and about concentrated strike...
It is different depending if you are a stalker or scrapper.
I dont know much of the details as i have only used it on a stalker.
And it does critical out of hide.
However if you are hit while the animation is happening because hide drops as soon as you initiate the attack.....then you wont get the critical hit. This is what happens on long animation attacks. However if you are not hit and your animation completes and you successfuly hit the target you will do a critical strike every time.
Sort of like how if you die before your attack animation completes....even though your power will still make the sound of going off it wont effect the enemy at all....becasue you died before the attack completed.
The percentage of critical that a stalker gets is only when they are on a team....they get 3% per team member who is with 5 feet of them. In game terms thats right next to them.
So in essence the best place to be is always right next to the tank or brute as they will take the aggro and you can safely dish out damage most of the time. The next best places are going and helping everyone else who are getting hit by stray enemies.
Concentrated strike has a chance on a stalker of causing build up to refresh.
I dont know if this helps or not....seams like people are mostly just telling the numbers and statistics the game tells them or the sites list...
I dont ever see kinetic melee stalkers on any of the servers i play on...so i figured that maybe i should make sure people knew.
1. The -damage debuff portion is always on when you hit a target. You can test this by hitting a pylon. It makes a clear difference (but not enough during regular fights as things die too quick).
2. Concentrated Strike has 100% "critical chance" from hidden but instead of doing "critical damage", it gives Stalker a 20% chance to instantly recharge Build Up. Concentrated Strike can also critical outside of hidden and the team-member buff does apply to the critical chance. You just need to watch for your Build Up. It took me a while to get used to it because I normally don't use Build UP more than once in each mob.
3. I have a level shift Kin/Dark Stalker. Burst (the pbaoe attack) has 100% chance to critical from Hidden which is pretty decent. I think if you want to have a better experience with Kinetic, go with either Stalker or Scrapper because Stalker gets 100% critical Burst and Scrapper finally gets a true 20s Heavy Hitter.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
Quote:
Small nitpick but...stalkers get a base crit percentage...around 10% i think...and a +3% for every team member within 5ft of them. Stalkers can crit when they're by themselves. I don't know what the crit rate for CS on a stalker is, though. Could be a smidge higher as per a scrapper.
|
Originally Posted by PsychicKitty
The percentage of critical that a stalker gets is only when they are on a team....they get 3% per team member who is with 5 feet of them. In game terms thats right next to them.
|
RaikenX is currently seeking new quotes to add to his signature.
Someone say something funny.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
::looks at RaikenX's signature::
Something funny. |
Quote:
Within 30 feet.|
Originally Posted by RaikenX
... within 5ft of them.
|
Kinetic Melee is a good Brute set, too. Compares very favorably with every other Brute primary.
The best comics are still 10�!
My City of Heroes Blog Freedom Feature Article: "Going Rageless?"
If you only read one guide this year, make it this one.
Super Reflexes: the Golden Fox of power sets!
WARNING: I bold names.
Quote:
oops yep...you're right...my bad. Was in a hurry and just typed in the distance that PsyKitty mentioned so i could get out the door for work.
|
Originally Posted by Daemodand
Within 30 feet.
Kinetic Melee is a good Brute set, too. Compares very favorably with every other Brute primary. |
RaikenX is currently seeking new quotes to add to his signature.
Someone say something funny.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
::looks at RaikenX's signature::
Something funny. |
Thank goodness it's not 5 feet. Here I was wishing the 30 feet range was a little farther! 
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
But 30' feet radius is still not that large considering many squishies stand on the back or Stalker may go up front to eliminate something.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
Quote:
? Hence my wishing the 30' was a little farther? |
Originally Posted by Jibikao
But 30' feet radius is still not that large considering many squishies stand on the back or Stalker may go up front to eliminate something.
|
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
Quote:
They just need to bite the bullet and make it detect teammates in the same way Defender Vigilance does. That way no matter where your teammates are, you'd get the bonus, and I don't believe that would be overpowered for Stalkers at all.
|
Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
Thank goodness it's not 5 feet. Here I was wishing the 30 feet range was a little farther!
|
The best comics are still 10�!
My City of Heroes Blog Freedom Feature Article: "Going Rageless?"
If you only read one guide this year, make it this one.
Super Reflexes: the Golden Fox of power sets!
WARNING: I bold names.
Quote:
Amen, brother Daemodand!
|
Originally Posted by Daemodand
They just need to bite the bullet and make it detect teammates in the same way Defender Vigilance does. That way no matter where your teammates are, you'd get the bonus, and I don't believe that would be overpowered for Stalkers at all.
|
The Inspiration Maker's Guide [i12] UPDATED with POPMENUS and Movement Binds!
A Flash in the Dark: The Electric/Ninjitsu Stalker [i23]
Kheldian Inspiration Macros UPDATED with POPMENUS and Movement Binds!
Guide to the Katana~Ninja Blade/Electric [i23]
Just a couple quick questions that I can't figure out from the in-game numbers.
1> It looks like the +Acc and +Dam bonuses only apply while Power Siphon is active. Is the -Dam on foes only during Power Siphon, or at all times?
2> What is the crit chance for Concentrated Strike? Is it the same for both Stalkers and Scrappers? On a Stalker, does CS have a higher crit chance when allies are nearby, like their regular attacks do, and does it auto-crit from Hide?
Thanks in advance!
@Roderick