I Hate the Market: a Random Roll Log


Aliana Blue

 

Posted

Do you hate the market? Sure, we all do! So let's roll some Alignment Merits in the level 35-39 range and sell all the recipes for 1.

To be "worth it" I need to get 67-68 million inf per roll on average. No set time frame, just until I don't feel like it anymore or get bored, or both. One roll a day unless I feel like doing more. Given prices are net. "V" indicates a vendored recipe.

ROLL THE FIRST:
Devastation: Dam/Rech (50 Recipe). V9,995
Numina's Convalescence: Heal/Rech (50 Recipe). 36,000,005
Glimpse of the Abyss: Chance for Psionic Damage (50 Recipe). V9,995
Decimation: Acc/End/Rech (40 Recipe). 522,995
Obliteration: Acc/Dam/Rech/End (50 Recipe). 49,576,505


THIS ROLL: 86,119,495
AVERAGE OF 1 ROLL: 86,119,495

COMMENTARY: 2 pieces of junk, a marginal recipe and two good ones. Above the target by 20ish million. Pretty good!


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Posted

I've got my last 20 rolls documented. I crafted nearly everything, the rolls are at level 33 and I listed at what I felt was fair pricing, sometimes a bit higher depending upon Goat Rule.

My current average net (after crafting and salvage costs and the market take) profit per roll is 92,781,725 infl. with 5 IOs still unsold, probably overpriced.

If anyone is interested, I can post the whole list, but you might consider that outside the scope of this project.


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Posted

I wish I had the guts to vender those off at 1inf. I just know, with my luck, they'd sell for 100.

You, sir, are a stud. I'm looking forward to seeing how this works out.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by StarGeek View Post
I've got my last 20 rolls documented. I crafted nearly everything... My current average net (after crafting and salvage costs and the market take) profit per roll is 92,781,725 infl.... If anyone is interested, I can post the whole list...
It's funny. I was a hardcore crafter in a previously-played-Star-Wars-themed MMO, but I find the crafting in this game so tedious I'm more than happy to pay people like you to do it for me. I'd never have the patience you have for crafting this stuff, but I'm glad you do!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BackFire View Post
I wish I had the guts to vender those off at 1inf. I just know, with my luck, they'd sell for 100.

You, sir, are a stud. I'm looking forward to seeing how this works out.
I have every expectation of getting the occasional burn by low-ballers, but even though I do have a burning hatred of the market, I trust in the Goat and know that truly valuable stuff will go for what it's worth.

And now, on to today's roll!

ROLL THE SECOND:
Luck of the Gambler: +7.5% Recharge Speed (50 Recipe). 90,000,005
Numina's Convalescence: End/Heal/Rech (50 Recipe). 4,950,906
Dark Watcher's Despair: Recharge/Endurance Reduction (Recipe). V9,995
Devastation: Acc/Dam/Rech (50 Recipe). 2,300,414
Expedient Reinforcement: End/Dam/Rech (50 Recipe). 900,007


THIS ROLL: 98,161,327
2 ROLL TOTAL: 184,280,822
2 ROLL AVERAGE: 92,140,411

COMMENTARY: Oh, what a lucky boy am I! Only one piece of junk, 3 marginals and a good recipe. The Expedient Reinforcement had me worried as there were no bids out for it, but I trusted in the Goat and put it up for 1 and it sold while I did the math for this post for about a million. Listed for 1, got 1 million, with zero competition. Think about that.

SIDE NOTE: Today I also sold 4 Resurgence (large Heal) Inspirations for a gross total of 2.3 million. Done purely for entertainment purposes. Large Inspirations are the equivalent of a decent recipe drop. I think I'll sell rather than use for the most part from now on.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daemodand View Post
To be "worth it" I need to get 67-68 million inf per roll on average.
So I take it the highest recipes (non purp, non PvP) are going for around 150M on the markets ((75M for 1 AM - 10% transaction fee) x 2)?

Edit: Does that mean there should be a new ceiling for PvP recipes as well at 2.625B? So off market transactions should never go over 2.362B, right?


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by dave_p View Post
So I take it the highest recipes (non purp, non PvP) are going for around 150M on the markets ((75M for 1 AM - 10% transaction fee) x 2)?

Edit: Does that mean there should be a new ceiling for PvP recipes as well at 2.625B? So off market transactions should never go over 2.362B, right?
Um, Ima let a math person field this one.

I will say this: I think Alignment Merits will continue to suppress prices on the most expensive items, ultimately bringing them all down to 2B or less. It's already happened to the 3% Resist PvP IO. 3% Def PvP IO is the next one to watch. Will my prediction come true? Um, I hope so?


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daemodand View Post
Um, Ima let a math person field this one.
I'm a math person and I'm not sure what that post is saying.

Edit: Never mind I got it. It was just worded strangely to my brain.


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Posted

if you craft and sell most of the things you've listed you'd net a good bit more influence.

Alternately you can buy Rectified Recticle recipes to craft/sell at 1 AM, or save up for a lotg.

The rolls will eventually even out to worse gains than specific buys.


I am an ebil markeeter and will steal your moneiz ...correction stole your moneiz. I support keeping the poor down because it is impossible to make moneiz in this game.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lohenien View Post
The rolls will eventually even out to worse gains than specific buys.
I'm going to have to disagree with that statement. There's a lot of overstock on things like the LotG recharges and the prices have gotten pretty low. Current prices for crafted LotG at level 25 is 150-160 million (135-144 million after taxes, assuming you get good deals on salvage, subtract 5-6 million more). That's maybe 65-70 million per alignment merit. Quite a bit less than my average of 92,781,725 on rolls so far. And like I said, I've got 5 unsold IOs that are pulling that average down, including a Miracle: +Recovery that I've obviously overpriced a bit, though it's only been 4 days.

While twenty rolls isn't a huge enough sample to work with, even my worse rolls never brought the average down below 80 mill/roll and it's often been much higher.


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Posted

You've said that you've been crafting. That alone is probably the reason you're seeing a higher profit margin. For someone who wants to do the bare minimum and just make the roll and take the recipes to the market, I'd put money on that being a loss in the long run over specific purchases. Also, the OP is listing for 1, so everything's going for the highest lowball bid, which is likely bringing profits down somewhat.

Recipes are where the frugal, patient types bid. Crafted IOs are where the impatient spendaholics bid. The difference in profit margin is quite noticeable.


@Roderick

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roderick View Post
You've said that you've been crafting. That alone is probably the reason you're seeing a higher profit margin. For someone who wants to do the bare minimum and just make the roll and take the recipes to the market, I'd put money on that being a loss in the long run over specific purchases. Also, the OP is listing for 1, so everything's going for the highest lowball bid, which is likely bringing profits down somewhat.

Recipes are where the frugal, patient types bid. Crafted IOs are where the impatient spendaholics bid. The difference in profit margin is quite noticeable.
I pretty much agree with everything you say. But I was responding to Lohenien, who was also talking about crafting, not Daemodand.

I am interested in how Daemodand's rolls go and waiting for the next one.


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Posted

I'd missed that Lohenien was also talking about crafted goods. Carry on then.


@Roderick

 

Posted

Random rolls have nothing to do with the market though.


Enjoy your day please.

 

Posted

They provide a way to get stuff without using the market (and more stuff in less time than direct A/R Merit purchases, though less likely to be what you want).

They also give a means to help stock the market, though I doubt that's a priority for a market hater.

I'm not entirely sure what the OP's goal or motivation is in this thread though, nor do I agree with the premise that "we all hate the market". But it spawned some interesting side-discussions, so who cares if the OP phrased something oddly?


@Roderick

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roderick View Post
You've said that you've been crafting. That alone is probably the reason you're seeing a higher profit margin. For someone who wants to do the bare minimum and just make the roll and take the recipes to the market, I'd put money on that being a loss in the long run over specific purchases. Also, the OP is listing for 1, so everything's going for the highest lowball bid, which is likely bringing profits down somewhat.

Recipes are where the frugal, patient types bid. Crafted IOs are where the impatient spendaholics bid. The difference in profit margin is quite noticeable.
Ya, random rolls, and listing for 1 inf is not the best way to make money with the alignment merits. So, I'm not really sure what the point of this exercise is, other than to show how much less money the OP makes vs selling crafted enhancements for a decent listing amount. Alternatively, this experiment could actually be how much money you can make VENDORING alignment merit recipe rolls to stores because the OP hates the market so much, but I wouldn't see the point of that either. :-s

I always say "go big, or go home". If you are going to take the time to do all the tips, and use your alignment merit rolls, you may as well go all the way. Spend a few minutes crafting and bidding on salvage and make some "real money". At the very most, if you had none of the salvage...you would have to bid and collect 15-20 items of salvage, and craft 5 enhancements at a time. Even a non market savvy person could accomplish this in a few minutes.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Karate View Post
Ya, random rolls, and listing for 1 inf is not the best way to make money with the alignment merits. So, I'm not really sure what the point of this exercise is, other than to show how much less money the OP makes vs selling crafted enhancements for a decent listing amount.
Actually, I think it's a pretty cool experiment. It's fairly often said in this forum that it's possible for people who dislike the market minigame to make plenty of inf by simply putting all their drops on the market for 1 inf, and it's always good to see a theory tested. I think that making A-Merit random rolls and listing the results for 1 is a fair test of max return for minimal market interaction, given a decent sample size; getting the A-merits is a fixed amount of effort.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grouchybeast View Post
I think that making A-Merit random rolls and listing the results for 1 is a fair test of max return for minimal market interaction, given a decent sample size; getting the A-merits is a fixed amount of effort.
I have to question the motivation to get the a-merits in the first place then? If it is to make money, and it's 11 missions worth of time invested, what's the problem with another 5-10 minutes to get an even greater monetary reward?

Personally - this to me is like making your own SG that you never intend to use, and saying you want to make lots of money, and farm with SG mode on to deliberately lessen your rewards.

I'm not saying the experiment for listing at 1 isn't interesting. If anything, it shows just how easy it is to make money in this game. I just don't see why someone would purposely not want to make even more money, for what could be considered trivial more time investment.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lohenien View Post
if you craft and sell most of the things you've listed you'd net a good bit more influence.

Alternately you can buy Rectified Recticle recipes to craft/sell at 1 AM, or save up for a lotg.

The rolls will eventually even out to worse gains than specific buys.
The crafting in this game is boring. I don't do things that bore me in this game.

Rectified Reticle? At 1 AM, it'd have to sell for about 34 million to "be worth it". Ima check, but I don't recall RR being anywhere near that expensive. Plus, crafting is yucky, Ima not do it except if Ima use the Enhancement myself.

Will random rolls be worse than direct buys in the long run? My guess is they are actually superior in the long run. The advantage of direct buys is they "aim for the middle" so you avoid the situation where a random roll craps out on you and gives nothing but junk. But while you're avoiding those lows, you're also missing out on the highs. Look at what 2 AMs bought me due to two high-payout random rolls. There's nothing you can buy with 2 AMs that will give you 189 million, and if there is I want to know about it (I really do!)

So I respectfully disagree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roderick View Post
They also give a means to help stock the market, though I doubt that's a priority for a market hater.
Well, I'm trying to show the value of random rolls. My hypothesis is that, even sans crafting, random rolls are worthwhile compared to direct-buy-sell. I might be right, I might be wrong, I'm making the rolls to try to falsify my hypothesis.

Right now I'll agree with the idea random-roll-craft-sell is most likely the optimal path, though I wouldn't be 100% surprised if random-roll-sell came very, very close, given the lower overhead. But yes, random-roll-craft-sell is most likely optimal. I just don't like the craft part so if I can make my stated acceptable minimum, the method would be worth it, for me.

Someone above said selling something for 1 inf goes to the lowball bidder, but this is not really accurate. Selling for 1 inf gets you the highest bidder among currently active bids. If a recipe sells for that 1 inf, the recipe is most likely of marginal value (ie, semi-junk) anyway, most likely with very little demand. Truly valuable recipes will always sell for what they are worth. That's why I always put purples up for 1 inf, too.

And some of the older posters here will probably recognize the "Sure, we all do!" phrase from those Sally Struthers hosted ads for a starving-African-children charity from the 1980's, so try not to take that too seriously.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daemodand View Post
The crafting in this game is boring.
Replace "boring" with "easy" and I agree.

I'm not sure how much excitement you want from crafting an enhancement in any case. Are flames supposed to shoot out from a magic cauldron as you add your deific weapon to your bubbling broth? :-s


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grouchybeast View Post
I think that making A-Merit random rolls and listing the results for 1 is a fair test of max return for minimal market interaction, given a decent sample size; getting the A-merits is a fixed amount of effort.
You are correct, sir. My hypothesis is that while random-roll-craft-sell is the optimal approach, random-roll-sell is "good enough" as an alternative, especially given the lower overhead and lesser time requirements, not to mention avoiding an in-game activity I don't enjoy, and minimizing contact with the market to boot.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Karate View Post
Replace "boring" with "easy" and I agree.
To the hard core MMO crafter, easy is synonymous with boring. Compare the crafting in this game to Droid Engineering in another nameless MMO. Droid Engineering, with all it's little complexities, all its craftable subcomponents, that was fun and it was pretty much all I did in my time there. Ah, memories!


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Posted

And now for today's roll!

ROLL THE THIRD:
Aegis: End/Rech (50 Recipe). 50,005
Devastation: Acc/Dam/Rech (50 Recipe). 1,802,735
Dark Watcher's Despair: Recharge/Endurance Reduction (50 Recipe). V9,995
Gift of the Ancients: +7.5% Run Speed (40 Recipe). -4
Positron's Blast: Chance for energy damage (50 Recipe). 23,005


THIS ROLL: 1,885,736
3 ROLL TOTAL: 186,166,558
3 ROLL AVERAGE: 62,055,519

COMMENTARY: Well, given my first two rolls were lucky, I was due for a correction and that's what happened. Most notable is the +7.5% Run Speed (+7.5% Recharge's evil twin!) which I paid someone to take. Still, I'm only a few million below my target, and the next roll is bound to be better according to the law of averages, right?

SIDE NOTE: I do appreciate all those who craft and sell. I buy crafted Enhancements all the time because I have no problem paying others to do what I am unwilling to do. I do craft on occasion, when I get a good recipe I want to slot. And when I do, I head to the Crafter's Cafe!


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Posted

UPDATED
Daemodand's butler: "A roll, sir?"
Daemodand: "Why yes, Jeeves! I'd ask you something but my other butler Google seems to give better answers. And does anyone still use you? Are you even still running?"
Daemodand's butler: "No."
Daemodand: "Awkward! On to today's roll!"

ROLL THE FOURTH:
Devastation: Chance to hold (50 Recipe). V9,995
Lockdown: Acc/End/Rech/Hold (50 Recipe). 45,005
Positron's Blast: Chance for energy damage (50 Recipe). 18,005
Obliteration: Acc/Dam/Rech/End (50 Recipe). 54,000,011
Scirocco's Dervish: Chance for lethal damage (50 Recipe). 4,506


THIS ROLL: 54,077,522
4 ROLL TOTAL: 240,244,080
4 ROLL AVERAGE: 60,061,020

COMMENTARY: Remind me to fire Jeeves. Pretty lousy roll! Obliteration pulled it out of the fire to some extent, but we have 3 pieces of junk (and probably a fourth when Lockdown sells...we'll see) and Obliteration was the only good one of the bunch. Scirocco's Dervish was a bit head-scratching as the bids outnumbered the recipes for sale and the last 5 were all 100,000, but mine went for 5K. Boo! Listing for 1 does come back to haunt you at times, though I'd argue this is one of those semi-junk recipes with only marginal value if it can go for so little.

I'm about 7 million off my stated goal at this point, and I have to admit, I'm feeling pretty nervous about continuing at this point. It's things like this that drive people to the direct buy-craft-sell method, owing to its comparative certainty.

Wish me luck on tomorrow's roll! I'll need it.
*DUN-DUN-DUUUUUUUN!*

P.S. Updated with the Lockdown that sold for 50K. Zero bids, they could have gotten it for 1, but paid 50,000. Thanks, I needed that. Statistically insignificant to the final results, though.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daemodand View Post
Rectified Reticle? At 1 AM, it'd have to sell for about 34 million to "be worth it". Ima check, but I don't recall RR being anywhere near that expensive.
It used to be the best kept secret for softcapping typed damage builds - 2 slots for the 1.875% S/L bonus is a very sweet deal, and it was doubly so when it was cheap as dirt.

Yes, the going rate is in the tens of millions these days. Very low supply as everyone runs their incarnate stuff doesn't help (and, looking at my ticket rolls, they seem to be surprisingly rare at the 10-14 range). Still a sweet deal when builds are tighter on slots than they are on influence.


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