Favorite Crashless Nuke


Another_Fan

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Shadow View Post


Nowhere in my post did I state that Hail of Bullets is particularly superior to any other nuke in terms of numbers.

I love it because of the aesthetics and just how badass it makes me feel!
Eh, for me its always a question of form AND function. I'm not fan of gunfu so HoB gets 2 thumbs down one for looking ridiculous and one for being imbalanced.

I had to borrow my wife's and daughter's thumbs for Time Bomb as it gets 1 thumb up for form but 5 thumbs down for function. That said I can't think of any situations where I would actually want use HoB with the possible exception of wanting to trigger RotP right after.

Time Bomb I actually use while soloing but it's teeth grindingly slow.


-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson

 

Posted

Blizzard + Blue Inspiration.


 

Posted

Rain of Arrows, definitely. Hail of Bullets is fantastic looking but it takes too long to recharge to ever be able to use it every spawn unless you are fighting purples, while Rain can be up every 20-25 seconds. Going only by awesomeness of animation it's HoB > FA > Rain, but adding in actual ability to "arrest" things (with extreme prejudice ) Rain comes out on top.

LRM rocket is also awesome, but it just takes too long to recharge and requires taking the epic pool with the worst armor. I have it on one character and it's a lot of fun, but he also has Rain of Arrows and there's no question which I like more.


Cascade, level 50 Blaster (NRG/NRG since before it was cool)
Mechmeister, level 50 Bots / Traps MM
FAR too many non-50 alts to name

[u]Arcs[u]
The Scavenger Hunt: 187076
The Instant Lair Delivery Service: 206636

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miladys_Knight View Post
That said I can't think of any situations where I would actually want use HoB with the possible exception of wanting to trigger RotP right after.
I think you're either under-estimating HoB's power, or are exaggerating. It's not "the best" T9 attack. But it's definitely not something you'd SKIP if you rolled a Dual Pistols Blaster/Corrupter because you "can't think of any situation where I would actually want to use HoB"...

Base Damage/Recharge for some comparable T9 Blaster attacks from Mid's:

Rain of Arrows: 225 Base Damage, 60s Recharge
Full Auto: 178 Base Damage, 60s Recharge
Thunderous Blast: 265 Base Damage, 360s Recharge
Inferno: 472 Base Damage, 360s Recharge
Blizzard: 500 Base Damage, 360s Recharge
Time Bomb (technically not a T9): 278 Base Damage, 360s Recharge

Hail of Bullets (Lethal Rounds): 204 Base Damage, 120s Recharge
Hail of Bullets (Incendiary Rounds): 254 Base Damage, 120s Recharge

If you consider just the quantitative attributes, Hail of Bullets really isn't as bad as some people keep moaning about. If you don't count Incendiary Rounds, it's the second last in terms of raw damage output.

The other non-quantitative attributes are the whole "It's a PBAoE" and the "It has long root rime" claims. Honestly, if your character can't survive 4-5 seconds in the middle of a spawn to cast this, then you really need to revise your battle strategy.

Hail of Bullets isn't an "I Win" button like Rain of Arrows. It's not MEANT to used as a team's opening move. You have to wait a little for the team to soften the enemies and the aggro before rushing in to cast Hail of Bullets.

And if you solo a lot, then what do you expect to do? Kill +4/x8 enemy spawns in a single swoop?

Honestly, I personally don't like Rain of Arrow. And not because it's a bad power or anything. But because of two reasons:

1. It pretty much defines the Archery set. In ideal conditions, it makes all your 8 other powers (maybe except Aim) obsolete.
2. It has spoiled people: "Rain of Arrows is better!" Of course Rain of Arrows is better, it's the most overpowered ranged T9 in the entire game. Doesn't mean every other ranged T9 should be as powerful.

The only "flaw" I see with Hail of Bullets is that its Recharge needs to be re-balanced. It needs to be at the very most 90 seconds in recharge.

/rant


 

Posted

Miladys earlier post is also disingenuous when talking about timing. Using HoB is not really slower than firing up RoA or Full Auto. RoA actually takes a good amount of time to activate, and Full Auto does fire for a long time. HoB does technically have a longer animation than the other two, but running in is not going to add much to the animation. If you're taking more than half a second to get into range for HoB to get the job done, you are doing it wrong. Either Sprint in or use Hurdle with CJ and get in there fast: that takes very little time.

Another thing to consider is that for RoA or Full Auto to drop minions and maybe/probably Lieutenants is that another attack is needed. HoB can do that with just itself and Fiery Rounds. And if you don't have Swap Ammo on a Dual Pistols Blaster, you're not playing the set smart, either. All that means is that HoB's longer animation allows for more damage to be done to most of its targets most of the time.

Miladys, I get that you don't like the Dual Pistols animations, but at least be honest about how it plays out by the numbers, and in game performance. You really are more down on the set than you need to be, and believe me, I can be down on what doesn't work for a set, so I'm not getting on you for nothing. HoB is not at all a part of any problems Dual Pistols has (and any it does have are not that major).


Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc:
Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory

 

Posted

FA is pure, unadulterated awesome. Especially when I lead with Flamethrower and follow up with M30 grenade... and rejoice in the sea of great big orange numbers.

Of course, the only issue is that half the time I end up pulling aggro off the tank and have to go dashing THROUGH the angry mob just to make them notice the big stone/flaming/whatever dude smacking the crap out of their buddies again. But hey... any blaster who can take aggro away from a competent tank is just doing their job TOO well.

LRM is wonderful in the situations that present themselves, but I find myself using it sparingly, mostly due to the long activation and hellishly long recharge.

HoB is not bad with incredible visual effect, but after 4 years of AR, I found DP to be kind of lacking.

RoA is an awesome nuke, and a wonderful sister power to FA. But I gotta stand by my baby here.

I never really had the patience to develop my TB skills so I can't really say too much about it. A stack of trip mines, OTOH, is pure love. Nothing can be more fun than starting a fight with an EB at 3/4 health.


Global- @SailorET, Justice Server
Sheryl Fiero, 50 AR/Devices Blaster
Louise Fiero, 50 Merc/Traps MM
Various assorted alts
Proudly serving in our military so you don't have to.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Shadow View Post


I think you're either under-estimating HoB's power, or are exaggerating. It's not "the best" T9 attack. But it's definitely not something you'd SKIP if you rolled a Dual Pistols Blaster/Corrupter because you "can't think of any situation where I would actually want to use HoB"...


Neither actually, and it's still the same problem as in Beta, animations not with standing.

Quote:
Base Damage/Recharge for some comparable T9 Blaster attacks from Mid's:

Rain of Arrows: 225 Base Damage, 60s Recharge
Full Auto: 178 Base Damage, 60s Recharge
Thunderous Blast: 265 Base Damage, 360s Recharge
Inferno: 472 Base Damage, 360s Recharge
Blizzard: 500 Base Damage, 360s Recharge
Time Bomb (technically not a T9): 278 Base Damage, 360s Recharge

Hail of Bullets (Lethal Rounds): 204 Base Damage, 120s Recharge
Hail of Bullets (Incendiary Rounds): 254 Base Damage, 120s Recharge

If you consider just the quantitative attributes, Hail of Bullets really isn't as bad as some people keep moaning about. If you don't count Incendiary Rounds, it's the second last in terms of raw damage output.
I am considering the quantitative aspects. You've neglected to mention that that damage output is an average of the 12 ticks. Average is not what you are going to get every time. Most of the time you will be on either the low or high side of the damage. Slotted to the ED cap for damage (3 level 50 common damage IOs in this case) the average is going to be 407.12, adding in Aim..... oh that's right the set lacks aim that means no damage boost to this crashless nuke.

If you have paired this power with a secondary that lacks build up your damage on average will be 407.12, 93 damage short of defeating minions that have no resistances to lethal damage. Even if you roll (consistantly) on the high side (you need to get 3 ticks over the average each and every time to do this) you won't be defeating minions as a DP/Dev and if you roll on the low side (not even a lot on the low side just one tick less) it will take more damage than a single application of ED capped Bullet Rain (124.42) can provide to finish off minions.

Pairing with a set that has build up mitigates this to some extent. The average damage provided with build up is 611.62 at the ED cap and you can miss 2 ticks (but not 3) and still dispatch minions.

This pales in comparison to RoA (589.13 with Aim, 814.35 with Aim and Build up), LRM (407.48 with Aim, 563.26 with Aim and Build up) and even FA (355.46 [10% of the time it will crit for 480.1], with build up 534.01 [721.12 with a crit]. All 3 of these WILL wipe out minions with build up each and every time and from a nice safe range of 102.5 (90 + 1/2 of radius 25), 160 (150 + 1/2 of radius 20), and 80 feet respectively. This can be further increased by adding range enhancements, pairing with /Energy, and slotting Alpha Cardiac.

Slotting for range, pairing with /energy, slotting Alpha cardiac only helps increase HoB's radius..... oh that's right HoB is a PBAoE. There is absolutely no increased benefit to doing any of these things.

Quote:
The other non-quantitative attributes are the whole "It's a PBAoE" and the "It has long root rime" claims. Honestly, if your character can't survive 4-5 seconds in the middle of a spawn to cast this, then you really need to revise your battle strategy.
I would call these quantitative and quite accurate. 6 minions can defeat a blaster in 5 seconds with their Alpha and follow up especially since they can use their ranged and melee attacks. The other crashless nukes can be used from outside of mob perception range and only the ranged alpha has a chance to hit you before you can respond with something else.

Revising your strategy I take it means something like slotting defense set bonuses (please remember that the game is still "supposedly" balanced around SO use) or perhaps shoring up your weaknesses by teaming with a buffer/debuffer/controller or 3. Things that if done by/for the other blaster sets, provide both more utility and/or more safety.

Quote:
Hail of Bullets isn't an "I Win" button like Rain of Arrows. It's not MEANT to used as a team's opening move. You have to wait a little for the team to soften the enemies and the aggro before rushing in to cast Hail of Bullets.
What exactly is the point then? If you are teamed with any other blaster they will have the spawn gone before you finish clicking build up if you wait for the rest of the team to soften the spawn up, making HoB next to useless. The rest of the team will be moving on to the next spawn while you still have a second or 2 of animation to finish up. The use for crashless nukes are as an opening move, designed to wipe out all the minions in the spawn, in relative safety, so that you can concentrate on the lieutenants and boss in the spawn without having to continually dodge the minions. A full crash nuke is meant to eliminate the spawn completely (except for those 5% of all mobs that are always missed) and the longest animation for any of the PBAoE crashing nukes is still 2 seconds less than HoB.

Quote:
And if you solo a lot, then what do you expect to do? Kill +4/x8 enemy spawns in a single swoop?
No, I expect to eliminate the minions each and every time (barring those 5% of all misses) with a setting of 0/x5.

Quote:
The only "flaw" I see with Hail of Bullets is that its Recharge needs to be re-balanced. It needs to be at the very most 90 seconds in recharge.

/rant
I hadn't yet gotten to the fact that HoB only gets to under perform half as often as RoA or FA because of the eggregious recharge it has. HoB should have a recharge of 60 seconds or better yet 45 seconds to make up for all of it's other short comings when compared to all other crashless and crashing nukes (save Time Bomb).

The only real advantage that I ever saw with HoB when playing DP was short duration mezzes applied as a response to me activating the power had worn off before I finished animating the power.


-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson

 

Posted

Quote:

This pales in comparison to RoA (589.13 with Aim, 814.35 with Aim and Build up), LRM (407.48 with Aim, 563.26 with Aim and Build up) and even FA (355.46 [10% of the time it will crit for 480.1], with build up 534.01 [721.12 with a crit]. All 3 of these WILL wipe out minions with build up each and every time and from a nice safe range of 102.5 (90 + 1/2 of radius 25), 160 (150 + 1/2 of radius 20), and 80 feet respectively. This can be further increased by adding range enhancements, pairing with /Energy, and slotting Alpha Cardiac.
This isn't entirely right.

Firstly, I agree, recharge should be reduced, and that RoA is a superior power. Esp with aim in the set.

However, FA's DPA Calculation is misleading, it can only do that damage to 10 enemies, not 16, and you have to have very precise placement (or long range+Boost Range) to manage that cap. It is also, like RoA purely lethal damage, however the reason for the lack of Aim in the set here is likely the ridiculous AoE potential in the AR set. As for LRM, It's good power, but it has a 260 second recharge which was not brought up.

I've now had a chance to use HoB in practice, and can say the +10(ish) defense is quite noticeable for allowing you to alpha with this, the double KD even with fire bullets is helpful (if unreliable) and the damage is respectable. I also believe this power is balanced lightly around the incredible power Bullet Rain, and the swap ammo ability (and having decent non-lethal damage IS noticeable).

Also, this can be used on indoor steam rolling teams reliably... I sometimes have trouble firing RoA off on time (before the team has killed the enemies or vice versa), due to simple obstruction of vision to the enemy before you're upon them. Not the problem with HoB or Full Auto for that matter, because the instant activation.

Farming though? RoA definitely. Fighting very high level enemies (+3/4) Again, RoA. Solo? RoA of course... but on your Average Steam Rolling +0-2x8 team, I prefer the quickness of HoB and Bullet Rain to RoA and Explosive Arrow.

One note though, RoA + Explosive has one thing going for it that totally overshadows any semblance of parity in damage with the other sets. From 100ft, if you queue up explosive to fire after RoA they hit simultaneously. Effectively giving you the power of both as your nuke damage (the damage the enemy receives before it can retaliate).


"Fascinating. I'm not bored at all, I swear." -Kikuchiyo

 

Posted

Details, details, and minor ones at that.

Bottom line for me is that I don't care for the aesthetics of the set so there is no "cool shiney" factor for me to make up for the lower performance.

Even if they get around to creating non-gunfu animations I won't play the set unless it's brought up to my personal minimum standards for blasters.

Since blasters live (and die) by their secondary effects the secondary effects of DP need to be brought up to standard. I don't buy that being able to change to the different types makes up for the reduction in effect for 2 reasons. Losing Aim for this power and not being able to effectively boost the secondary effects "properly" by slotting the power for secondary effects. I "might" marginally buy swap ammo as is if the split was 30/70 on damage type rather than the current 70/30 that it is.

If, for example, you slot a power for Slow, that slot only provides benefit when you are using cryo rounds and is wasted any other time. This lack removes much of the benefit of being able to swap ammo. If you want to increase your secondary effects you limit yourself to 1 or 2 types of ammo, defeating the entire purpose of the swap ammo power.

How would I fix DP?

First off would be a set of Malta-ish animations as an alternate.

Second, I would make Swap Ammo slottable. Swap Ammo would provide a global damage increase of 5% when selected (this would be ED slottable up to 10%ish which is (using SOs as a standard) roughly equal to the damage boost provided by Aim but spread out over 45ish seconds instead of a 62.5% boost for 10 seconds every 45 seconds.

Further more Swap Ammo would accept KB, slow, and def debuff enhancements and would apply their enhancement to the secondary affects of the various Ammo types as they were swapped, KB for lethal rounds, Slow for cryo, def debuff for toxic. So that multiple slots aren't wasted in the damage powers by trying to bolster secondary effects for only one aspect.

Finally HoB would get the 60 second recharge that it should have and it would animate in 3 seconds, 6 damage ticks (one per .5 second) having a 100% chance per tick of dealing 36 damage per tick split 9/9/9/9 Lethal, Fire, Cold, and Toxic and applying the secondary effect of each possible ammo type (though dropping the chance of KD to 80%)

If it is going to be the ALL out damage power of DP then it should have ALL the flavor of DP rolled into it.

That would bring it up to average for me. I'd probably play it then instead of passing it by like I do with elec, and Psi.


-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson

 

Posted

Rain of Arrows. I've got the recharge of that down so that I can pretty much use it on nearly every mob on the map.


 

Posted

RoA.


Arc #6015 - Coming Unglued

"A good n00b-sauce is based on a good n00b-roux." - The Masque

 

Posted

RoA...no question about it. With the Alpha slot and set bonuses, its recharge is down in the 15s area. Beautiful.

BU + Aim + RoA + PSW all hitting at once. Huge damage, no crash, repeat a few seconds later. Now that's a nuke I think we can all appreciate.


 

Posted

After careful and deliberate thought, Hail of Bullets has to be my favorite (unless Fireball + FSC + 3 ticks of Hot Feet + 3 ticks of BA (the last to a small number of foes) counts as a crashless nuke).

Hail of Bullets meshes much better with my preferred playstyle and it works better with my 2 favorite secondaries, /Fire and /MM.


Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.

 

Posted

Rain of arrows. I have mine six slotted, with 3 Damage/range HO's, a javelin A/E/R & A/D/E/R, and a +rech Io. This gives around 40% accuracy/endurance, 80% recharge, Full damage, and full range. Tack on boost range and you have a 200 foot ranged rain of pointy death every thirty seconds or so.

Runner up is LRM,same slotting, which has a two minute recharge but a 330 foot range.


 

Posted

Hail of Bullets is my favorite for several reasons:

1) it has a fantastic name
2) its like a nuke should be: all or nothing
3) it looks quite awesome
4) it gives you 11,25% def for being in middle of the mob
5) it has the most tohitchecks of all mentioned powers


Helge corr lvl 50 rad/cold
Helge2 corr lvl 50 ice/rad
Techbothelge MM lvl 50 robo/dark
Helge Mauz def lvl 50 emp/ele
illuhelge troller lvl 50 illu/rad
Wiederbelebter helge nk lvl 50 bs/reg
Maennerschreack nightwidow lvl 44
Quantenjaeger ws lvl 3

 

Posted

Having characters with well slotted versions of each, I select Full Auto, ONLY with Build-up. I like how fast it starts spewing out streams of orange numbers, especially since with RoA there is a big desire to use both Aim and BU, which frustratingly often leaves Arrows perforating already body-strewn (enemies defeated by teammates already) ground. I really don't run into that with FA.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miladys_Knight View Post
Not to burst your enthusiastic bubble but, if you've waited that long the Archer has all ready destroyed the spawn from range with RoA, AR player is just finishing up full auto, and the munitions user launched LRM from snipe range a long time ago.

You could potentially cause a problem for the devices player who is in the middle of setting up time bomb but that's about it.
I follow the tanker. If tanker runs in just ahead of me, chances are his taunt aura will take effect a split second before I hit Hail. While that Archer is busy pulling his six arrows back and the Munitionist is lining up his rocket, I'm busy pulling the triggers and spawning hordes of orange numbers.

DP/Kin/Mace, 35% defense to S/L.

Besides, 1.40x Accuracy in HoB. Free IO.


My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."