Yadda, yadda, yadda. Time Bomb's fine as it is. You trade speed for an extreme amount of damage, with lots of KB, at a safe range that you can immediately follow up with another attack while it's in the process of blowing up, which means excellent safety.
Quote:
Good suggestions.|
Originally Posted by Frozen_Burn
Time Bomb seems to be one of the most skipped powers in the /Devices set. And understandably so with 9s of casting (8s interruptable) and 12s of a delay in its detonation (21s from button click to explosion). It is very hard (and sometimes impossible) to time it for an effective detonation in a team setting and when solo, it just adds more to the already slow moving set.
In a team setting, I typically have to stealth ahead of the team 2-3 mobs in front of them in order to have enough time to drop the Time Bomb before the team shows up. Otherwise, the team will either: 1) scatter the mob making the explosion useless; 2) causes AoEs that interrupt me; or 3) completely eliminate the mob before the Time Bomb explodes. Solo, sure you can stealth in, drop it, and wait the 21s for the "nuke" level damage to devastate the mob... but other blasters can stealth in and "nuke" a mob with Inferno, Nova, Blizzard, Thunderous Blast, and etc in only 3s-4s. But that's a PRIMARY "nuke" vs. a SECONDARY "nuke"... so I'm ok with a longer cast time to keep the damage high on Time Bomb however, 9s is still FAR too long. A suggestion for a fix to this power and to make it more useable in a team setting (and solo) is to make the Time Bomb a "Detonation Bomb." Instead of dropping it and waiting for it to go off, you can drop it and then click a button to set it off when you want to. The mechanics are already in the game to accomplish this: Drop a pet, and then "dismiss" it, at which time it blows up doing damage. You could click the button once for casting, and then click it a 2nd time for detonating when you're ready for it to go off--instead of when IT wants to go off. But it should also have a 7s cast (6s interrupt) instead of the 9s it currently is (this would be fair on the whole and in-line with other changes I've sugegsted with other powers in the /Devices set in other threads). 9s is just too long to viably use in a team setting... 7s is still long enough towarrant the damage of a secondary powerset "nuke", but also short enough to make it more useable. This would also be more in-line with the "ambush"-iness of Trip Mines and Caltrops by setting up everything ahead of time and pulling your enemies to trap. When the minions and lieutenants clear your Trip Mine field, you have your "Detonation Bomb" ready for the bosses (or EBs). In a team setting, this would also eliminate having to guess and "time" the explosion with your team's actions (which is near impossible) and you can "detonate" it when it's best for you and your team. I also think this would be more appealing to other players and people might actually start taking the power. |
I have to admit though, gun drone may need to be addressed first, but some people have reported success using gun drone.
Quote:
No, you don't trade that. He's right you give it all up and get nothing back. You get nothing from the power teaming unless you get really lucky or are on a team of n00bs moving at a snails pace.|
Originally Posted by JD_Gumby
Yadda, yadda, yadda. Time Bomb's fine as it is. You trade speed for an extreme amount of damage, with lots of KB, at a safe range that you can immediately follow up with another attack while it's in the process of blowing up, which means excellent safety.
|
Rarely will you get it to do any damage at all for the reasons he mentioned.
You aren't safe either because the team will get you killed by attacking while you are trying to finish setting it up.
Good luck trying to get another shot in while it's blowing up. IF there are any Mobs left when it does finally blow up there won't be anything left for you to shoot with your follow up shot.
Time Bomb and Gun Drone are egregious powers, having cast and interrupt times that are huge outliers when compared with any other power in the game.
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
I'd shave off Time Bomb's interrupt time entirely, make it a 1 sec cast. It's like Bright Shadow says, how hard can it be to press the red button on the timer? Unless of course you're supposed to Mcguyver it from the lint in your pocket everytime you set one down...
Ditto for Gun Drone. I'd definitely trade its mobility (like it used to be, Gun Turret) for an instant cast and no interrupt time at all, just like every other pet in the game.
I've always found it humorous this day in age that it takes twice as long for myself to cast my silly gun drone as it does for someone else to cast their patron arachnobot or mu mystic.....and theirs don't blow up after 120s either I believe.
Cpt. Shwan.
Virtue, AR/Dev Blaster, lvl 50+3, 3300+ Hours logged.
Created 8/20/2004 - Proud Captain of Hero Dawn!
Quote:
Fixed that for you. |
Originally Posted by Miladys_Knight
Time Bomb and Gun Drone are egregious powers, having cast and interrupt times AND END COST that are huge outliers when compared with any other power in the game.
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Time Bomb should be made into a Hand Grenade type of power. Screw the Cottage Rule, it keeps bad powers from being fixed.
Ideally, the tank will die precisely as everyone else starts fighting, allowing aggro to be spread evenly among the blaster. -seebs, "How to Suck at CoH/CoV" Guide
Quote:
I concur.
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Originally Posted by Stealth_Bomber
Time Bomb should be made into a Hand Grenade type of power.
|
They ALL float down here. When you're down here with us, you'll float too!
@Starflier
Time Bomb is fine. There are a few powers that aren't immediately useful in a team. Doesn't mean they're bad, or useless. Rather, it means you learn when and how to use them effectively.
So you have to sneak ahead 2 or 3 spawns to plant your bomb. Congratulations, you found a use. Just like I had to learn where and when not to use Blizzard on my ice blaster.
I like the bomb-during-av fight approach, personally.
Life is pleasant. Death is peaceful. It's the transition that's troublesome.
Isaac Asimov
To look at it another way, Shouldn't you be saying that Controllers and Defenders powers all need to be looked at to be both useful when teamed AND solo?
No??
Then why expect Time Bomb to be useful when teamed? It's a trade-off.
Not to mention that when your teamed you shouldn't even need Time Bomb.
tl;dr: If I don't expect my Heal Other to be useful when I'm solo why should you expect Time Bomb to be useful when teamed?
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Quote:
I Agree. |
Originally Posted by Stealth_Bomber
Fixed that for you.
Time Bomb should be made into a Hand Grenade type of power. Screw the Cottage Rule, it keeps bad powers from being fixed. |
What they should do is make Device the first set in the beginning of a series of sets that have double power choices. Choice Standard Time Bomb or "this other power".
1. Why Soft Cap is Important : http://dechskaison.blogspot.com/2011...important.html
2. Limits: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Limits
3. Attack Mechanics: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics
4. Rule of Five: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Rule_o...e_Law_of_Fives
Quote:
Captain Obvious is there anything else you might want to point out to us ? |
Originally Posted by Mercator
Time Bomb is fine. There are a few powers that aren't immediately useful in a team. Doesn't mean they're bad, or useless. Rather, it means you learn when and how to use them effectively.
So you have to sneak ahead 2 or 3 spawns to plant your bomb. Congratulations, you found a use. Just like I had to learn where and when not to use Blizzard on my ice blaster. I like the bomb-during-av fight approach, personally. |
I swear I wish I could go back in time and cut and paste every thread in which someone posts sneak ahead and set your bombs comment. just so I can post it here for you read and understand how many times this has been said in defense of this power. Sadly it is the only defense.
Further Time Bomb probably at best on an IO build has about a 135 to 120 second recharge and I am stretching to get it down to 120 seconds. But nonetheless at this time your talking every 2 minutes to place a Time Bomb.
You MIGHT, assuming Time Bomb is recharged before the AV fight to place this bomb maybe twice during the fight, again might be depending on the AV.
Further Blasters lack of defenses that would protect them from placing these powers too close to a bunch of mobs or an AV engaged in active combat. I have Range Defense cap on my blaster among some other decent defense numbers and I can't tell you how many times I have been almost killed by a AOE from a AV while placing a Trip Mine. Let alone how many times some Caltrops or Rikti death monkey smoke giving me 1 point of damage broke my placement.
How many times are you going to attempt to place Time Bomb before it puts your endurance bar at unsafe levels? Or are you going to say that in your gaming world none of this happens. Your so perfect that you just magically know when to place Time Bomb where it will never be interrupted. Let alone when you place it and it just does not hit anything because of some unknown bug that has been around since the set has been out. If I need to wait 2 minutes per recharge, otherwise 6 minutes normally it should work with no interruptions at a MINIMUM.
Don't get me wrong I use this power, but I use it on a Defense Cap Trapper that can afford the luxury of such high defenses that allow me to place this bomb at will along with Trip Mine.
Blasters do not have this type of luck. Most of bomb placement is before the fight. Either your solo so not having the defenses you will be hard pressed to attempt this or your in a group in which the DPS output is so great you will not have the chance to place this bomb during a fight that is NOT an AV fight.
I will give you the every 2 minutes recharge, but I am more then positive placement is more like 3 minutes or more. Too many things are just going on that your not just sitting there looking at Time Bomb recycle. So when you start looking at the real math per bomb per time interval placement it really isn't much. Especially since the circumstances either have to be you have to move ahead of the team to place the bomb or hope for an AV fight. Just one person accidentally targeting your group with an attack will mess up your Time Bomb for that placement period. Just too many things can go wrong when attempting to use this power that one screw up, that might not even be your fault will neuter your DPS from this power for 4 minutes. 4 MINUTES, again I am giving the most semi realistic recharge numbers for the average player in IOs. More then likely the recharge numbers are higher.
1. Why Soft Cap is Important : http://dechskaison.blogspot.com/2011...important.html
2. Limits: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Limits
3. Attack Mechanics: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics
4. Rule of Five: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Rule_o...e_Law_of_Fives
Quote:
Unless you're fighting decent sized groups of enemies during said AV fight, that's actually kind of a 'terribad' idea. I would imagine. With the length of the animation behind laying down the mine most sets will actually end up effectively loosing DPS by doing it. If you spread out the damage it puts out over the course of the animation it'd be something like 61.4 DPS I think (well ... that's with 100% damage enhancement from IOs and such).|
Originally Posted by Mercator
I like the bomb-during-av fight approach, personally.
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In any case, I think the real issue with devices stems not from the fact that it has some powers that really have very little use in teams, but from the fact that those powers that aren't really useful in teams are the set's attacks. It wouldn't even be so much of an issue if the rest of the set was solid, but it's not. Don't get me wrong, there's not much in the set that's actively bad, but a lot of it is incredibly skipable, and that's a bad thing when it comes to powerset design.
MA Arcs: Yarmouth 1509 and 58812
Quote:
It REALLY needs to be like the satchels in Half Life. You toss it out on one click and wait then trigger it with a second click of the same power. Satchels were soooooo much fun in HL |
Originally Posted by Stealth_Bomber
Time Bomb should be made into a Hand Grenade type of power.
|
Current:
Fridgerato - Traps/Ice (Frdm)
Gadgetron - Grav/TA (Lbrty)
Ice/Kin Guide
Quote:
Heal Other is in a set designed for keeping allies alive, Devices is a secondary set made for the primary Ranged DPS Archetype.|
Originally Posted by MaestroMavius
To look at it another way, Shouldn't you be saying that Controllers and Defenders powers all need to be looked at to be both useful when teamed AND solo?
No?? Then why expect Time Bomb to be useful when teamed? It's a trade-off. Not to mention that when your teamed you shouldn't even need Time Bomb. tl;dr: If I don't expect my Heal Other to be useful when I'm solo why should you expect Time Bomb to be useful when teamed? |
I have two level 50 Devices Blasters, one Energy Blast, the other Fire. Time Bomb is designed to be a nuke which gives you enough utility to be safe when it explodes.. The issue is that in the time it takes to explode, the average Blaster can be rid of a group by other means and actually have fun while doing it.
When you use Heal Other for it's intended use, you can expect a thanks for the timely healing, or some sort of recognition, or just the gooey feeling inside that you kept the Scrapper alive who's aggroing everything away from you like the good little blender with legs should.
I've tried using Time Bomb when in a team, either they don't notice or they ask why it's in my build. I've tried using Time Bomb when solo, when it exploded it didn't even defeat the white conning Minions and I was just left with a soft group of angry enemies (I think they were Crey). I then got bored and forgot I had it, eventually respeccing it out.
My vote would go to an Omega Maneuver clone, something you can throw out from a range without breaking stealth, will aggro enemies to it so they're bunched together, then explode for respectable damage and maybe stun/knockdown, ready for you to unleash AoEs or quickly toe-bomb with Trip Mine.. In fact, I think the time it takes before it explodes should be how long it takes for you to put down a Trip Mine, so that if you're quick enough you're rewarded with a double-explosion just like the current Time Bomb, except with less suck.
I am the Blaster, I have filled the role of Tank, Controller and Defender
Sometimes all at once.
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Quote:
I couldent agree more.|
Originally Posted by Frozen_Burn
Time Bomb seems to be one of the most skipped powers in the /Devices set. And understandably so with 9s of casting (8s interruptable) and 12s of a delay in its detonation (21s from button click to explosion). It is very hard (and sometimes impossible) to time it for an effective detonation in a team setting and when solo, it just adds more to the already slow moving set.
In a team setting, I typically have to stealth ahead of the team 2-3 mobs in front of them in order to have enough time to drop the Time Bomb before the team shows up. Otherwise, the team will either: 1) scatter the mob making the explosion useless; 2) causes AoEs that interrupt me; or 3) completely eliminate the mob before the Time Bomb explodes. Solo, sure you can stealth in, drop it, and wait the 21s for the "nuke" level damage to devastate the mob... but other blasters can stealth in and "nuke" a mob with Inferno, Nova, Blizzard, Thunderous Blast, and etc in only 3s-4s. But that's a PRIMARY "nuke" vs. a SECONDARY "nuke"... so I'm ok with a longer cast time to keep the damage high on Time Bomb however, 9s is still FAR too long. A suggestion for a fix to this power and to make it more useable in a team setting (and solo) is to make the Time Bomb a "Detonation Bomb." Instead of dropping it and waiting for it to go off, you can drop it and then click a button to set it off when you want to. The mechanics are already in the game to accomplish this: Drop a pet, and then "dismiss" it, at which time it blows up doing damage. You could click the button once for casting, and then click it a 2nd time for detonating when you're ready for it to go off--instead of when IT wants to go off. But it should also have a 7s cast (6s interrupt) instead of the 9s it currently is (this would be fair on the whole and in-line with other changes I've sugegsted with other powers in the /Devices set in other threads). 9s is just too long to viably use in a team setting... 7s is still long enough towarrant the damage of a secondary powerset "nuke", but also short enough to make it more useable. This would also be more in-line with the "ambush"-iness of Trip Mines and Caltrops by setting up everything ahead of time and pulling your enemies to trap. When the minions and lieutenants clear your Trip Mine field, you have your "Detonation Bomb" ready for the bosses (or EBs). In a team setting, this would also eliminate having to guess and "time" the explosion with your team's actions (which is near impossible) and you can "detonate" it when it's best for you and your team. I also think this would be more appealing to other players and people might actually start taking the power. |
The time bomb is very frustrating.
You can almost always only use it soloing,Then it still has such unpredictable results that sometimes I wonder why I am still using it.
Many times I have set it down close to a baddy only to watch absalutly nothing happen.
A switch that detonates it when you need it is a much better way to go.
And it doesent seem to respond very well to slotting intentions also.
Knock back/damage/ACC, It's pretty much all the same.
I'm definitely in the boat that time bomb should activate faster. Personally for /devices trip mine and gun drone should be on a 2s drop time, and TB on 4 seconds with a 5 second detonation wait time.
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here's a quick tip on how and when to use Time Bomb effectively
Times when time bomb can be effectively utilized:
hope this helps
Holy Necro-post Batman!
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
The good news is that with Judgement powers, who cares if Time Bomb sucks... 
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
Quote:
Hmmmm /Dev blasters in the 38-49 level range?
|
Originally Posted by StratoNexus
The good news is that with Judgement powers, who cares if Time Bomb sucks...
|
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by fibblins
here's a quick tip on how and when to use Time Bomb effectively
Times when time bomb can be effectively utilized: hope this helps |
I have Time Bomb in my build for my DP/Dev Blaster and plan to keep it. I find it fun to use solo . . . I spot a group, back away and set up several trip mines around a corner, and throw Caltrop on the spot. Then I run into the group (with Superspeed+Cloaking Dev) and set Time Bomb. Run back around the corner behind my Trip Mine field. Kaboom! and the survivors come to find me, run into the trip mines. Yeah, it takes too much time, but not everything in the game should be about killing stuff fast. Fun is good . . . even if everything is not optimized.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
Quote:
While I agree to a point, /Devices crosses that point by a good margin for me. I love my Nrg/Devices character. I seriously gimp myself when playing him because I LOVE Trip Mines and I LOVE Gun Drone. Yes, the fun is good and I do exactly the kinds of things you say. But, IMO, I should be able to have that same fun and actually not gimp myself.
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Originally Posted by Local_Man
Yeah, it takes too much time, but not everything in the game should be about killing stuff fast. Fun is good . . . even if everything is not optimized.
|
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
Quote:
Wrong. Time Bomb is great because it makes you realize you've saved one power choice and at least 3 slots for something else. Time Bomb makes the decision for you. Skip it and you'll have more rooms for other powers.
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Originally Posted by fibblins
here's a quick tip on how and when to use Time Bomb effectively
Times when time bomb can be effectively utilized: |
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
I would love to see it get the mastermind treatment. Either let you set a suicide mode on your gunplatform, or even better, make it a summon up a little pet that will run into the group and detonate (maybe a little remote controlled truck or one of the non-combat pets from the vet reward set)
"...well I have wrestled with reality for thirty-five years, Doctor and I am happy to state I finally won out over it." Elwood P Dowd (from the movie Harvey)
Time Bomb seems to be one of the most skipped powers in the /Devices set. And understandably so with 9s of casting (8s interruptable) and 12s of a delay in its detonation (21s from button click to explosion). It is very hard (and sometimes impossible) to time it for an effective detonation in a team setting and when solo, it just adds more to the already slow moving set.
In a team setting, I typically have to stealth ahead of the team 2-3 mobs in front of them in order to have enough time to drop the Time Bomb before the team shows up. Otherwise, the team will either: 1) scatter the mob making the explosion useless; 2) causes AoEs that interrupt me; or 3) completely eliminate the mob before the Time Bomb explodes.
Solo, sure you can stealth in, drop it, and wait the 21s for the "nuke" level damage to devastate the mob... but other blasters can stealth in and "nuke" a mob with Inferno, Nova, Blizzard, Thunderous Blast, and etc in only 3s-4s. But that's a PRIMARY "nuke" vs. a SECONDARY "nuke"... so I'm ok with a longer cast time to keep the damage high on Time Bomb however, 9s is still FAR too long.
A suggestion for a fix to this power and to make it more useable in a team setting (and solo) is to make the Time Bomb a "Detonation Bomb." Instead of dropping it and waiting for it to go off, you can drop it and then click a button to set it off when you want to. The mechanics are already in the game to accomplish this: Drop a pet, and then "dismiss" it, at which time it blows up doing damage. You could click the button once for casting, and then click it a 2nd time for detonating when you're ready for it to go off--instead of when IT wants to go off.
But it should also have a 7s cast (6s interrupt) instead of the 9s it currently is (this would be fair on the whole and in-line with other changes I've sugegsted with other powers in the /Devices set in other threads). 9s is just too long to viably use in a team setting... 7s is still long enough towarrant the damage of a secondary powerset "nuke", but also short enough to make it more useable.
This would also be more in-line with the "ambush"-iness of Trip Mines and Caltrops by setting up everything ahead of time and pulling your enemies to trap. When the minions and lieutenants clear your Trip Mine field, you have your "Detonation Bomb" ready for the bosses (or EBs).
In a team setting, this would also eliminate having to guess and "time" the explosion with your team's actions (which is near impossible) and you can "detonate" it when it's best for you and your team.
I also think this would be more appealing to other players and people might actually start taking the power.