'Nerve: Is it worth it?': A discussion on the value of Nerve.


Auroxis

 

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Originally Posted by Auroxis View Post
It's not true that characters either have enough DDR that defense debuffs don't make a difference, or don't have enough DDR that 3% buffer defense won't make a difference.
Yeah, sorry, that was a dumb thing for me to say.


 

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Incidentally, the extra 3% my Shield Brute gets with the Nerve slotting gives her a buffer against almost any single defence debuff - when fighting Cimerorans, for instance, it takes two hits, not one, before she's under the soft cap now.


 

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Originally Posted by gameboy1234 View Post
I just checked and noticed that Power Boost (Black Scorpion) is a bit better in some regards than PBU. Recharge 120s instead of 240s, and a 15s duration vs 12.5s. I can do six bubbles while PB is active.

Now the value of PB is much less: 65% boost to def vs. 98% for PBU, but I think PB is still the more useful of the two.
Power Build Up is designed to be a combination of Power Boost and Build Up, since Defenders only get Aim. PBU adds +damage and +tohit on top of the PB buffs, which is part of the point.


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Originally Posted by Eiko-chan View Post
50-60% on a Brute (or Scrapper; the numbers should be the same for both.) My softcapped Shield Brute sits around 55% with ED-slotting and the Nerve Radial Uncommon. She has a brief window around 70% while Active Defence is doublestacked.

Mids is giving a value of around 66% for Tankers, which would go to about 88 with doublestacked Active Defence.
If you slot Active Defence with 3 Membranes ultra-rare nerve, you can get 77.7% Defense resistance single stacked.


 

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Originally Posted by MajorDecoy View Post
If you slot Active Defence with 3 Membranes ultra-rare nerve, you can get 77.7% Defense resistance single stacked.
1) The nerve shouldn't have an effect on active defense (defense not slottable there), though it will affect battle agility.
2) The membrane affecting active defense is officially a bug.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Signpost View Post
1) The nerve shouldn't have an effect on active defense (defense not slottable there), though it will affect battle agility.
2) The membrane affecting active defense is officially a bug.
Nerve doesn't act on Active Defense, but it does act on all the rest of the Defense Resist in Shield Defense.

If it is a bug, then it's not one they seem too concerned about, because they if they can make One with the Shield ignore all recharge enhancements, they can make Active Defense ignore all defense enhancements.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by gameboy1234 View Post
I just checked and noticed that Power Boost (Black Scorpion) is a bit better in some regards than PBU. Recharge 120s instead of 240s, and a 15s duration vs 12.5s. I can do six bubbles while PB is active.

Now the value of PB is much less: 65% boost to def vs. 98% for PBU, but I think PB is still the more useful of the two.
Actually the buff from Defender's Power Boost is also ~98%. My Empathy Defender went for Power Boost and has never looked back.


Favorite Hero: Computer (Empathy/Energy Blast Defender)

Favorite Villain: Gimp Computer (Fire Control/Psionic Assault Dominator)

 

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Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex View Post
To clarify, Nerve does work here. Alpha Boosts are not actually globals. They're like an invisible 7th slot in your powers with an extra enhancement in them, that happens to be partially immune to ED. It does make calculation confusing, but luckily the Mids guys are on top of it!
Doesn't really make calculation confusing since its value is displayed directly on the power. Well, no more confusing than manually calculating the effects of ED has always been, anyways.

My take on Nerve? Not everyone is IO'd out and uses Mids and/or spreadsheets to maximize their bonuses to Accuracy and Defense. They will definitely benefit from it.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MajorDecoy View Post
Nerve doesn't act on Active Defense, but it does act on all the rest of the Defense Resist in Shield Defense.

If it is a bug, then it's not one they seem too concerned about, because they if they can make One with the Shield ignore all recharge enhancements, they can make Active Defense ignore all defense enhancements.
AFAIK there's only three sources of DDR in shield def: Battle Agility, Active Defense, and Grant Cover. Grant Cover's DDR is also non-enhancable, so the only ability helped by nerve for DDR is Battle Agility.

Also, http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Hamido..._Types_Exploit


 

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Originally Posted by Master Zaprobo View Post
I'm running the Nerve Partial Radial Revamp on my Mastermind for two reasons. Firstly, because I'm */FF so I wanted the extra 20% defence - it's what makes me soft-capped on S/L/E without having to really stress about IO's and power selection.

Secondly is because I'm a Mastermind - over half my henchmen are behind the curve in accuracy because they're one or two levels below me. When I'm fighting a L54 minion (+3 to me, when level shifted), they're fighting +4/+5's. Every little bit of accuracy (and to a certain extent, damage) that I can extend to the Bots is important.

Slotting global accuracy doesn't work for Mastermind henches, but the Nerve Alpha does
This. Plus for my Thugs/Poison the softcap for pets will be within reach as I get higher on the Incarnate enhancement table.


 

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Going back to the Musculature comment, I did take it on one Scrapper - a BS/Invul. He doesn't have endurance problems, and I didn't see big value in Cardiac for just the extra damage resist. The biggest bang for him is probably Spiritual, but he's got decent though not amazing +rech from sets and Hasten. Recharge is good for high DPS attack chains, but Broadswords animations kind of choke that early compared to a lot of other sets. The only thing for him that seems to majorly benefit from lots of recharge is Dull Pain, and on average I am close to perma with it now. Ultimately, though, I wanted to try something different - I have a bunch of other melee characters who I gave Spiritual to. Broadsword's appeal, for me, is the steady "crunch", and it seemed that Spiritual was moderate enough in benefit to him that Musculature was attractive for making that "crunch" louder.


Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Signpost View Post
AFAIK there's only three sources of DDR in shield def: Battle Agility, Active Defense, and Grant Cover. Grant Cover's DDR is also non-enhancable, so the only ability helped by nerve for DDR is Battle Agility.
I hadn't noticed that Grant Cover's DDR was non-enhancable, I had assumed that it started at 10% and, via slotting, it reached 17.3% DDR, but looking at it, yes, it is base 17.3% DDR, ignores buffs and enhancements. Still, it makes sense to mention to mention which level of Nerve is slotted when discussing DDR.


 

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If you use 3 lvl52* membranes in active defense and 3 lvl52* Cytos (i think) in battle agility, with double stacked active defense and Grant Cover, you can attain 95% DDR. Bug? Yes. Its on Paragonwiki, too. It's been known for a long time and I dont see it changing. I like it as a design feature to really make people think more creatively about slotting.


*Keep in mind, I think this number is used so that 50++ will do the job. A lot of work? Yep. Worth it? YEP! Castle did this when Grant Cover's contribution was re-evaluated and the new numbers were based on this. Dont quote me tho.


Miss Arc #147491: Rise of Bedlam
AKA Iron Smoke @Champion Server

 

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I found a similar problem on one of my scrappers, most things were enhanced to around ED (and I didn't really benefit hugely from the 15-20% more buffage)

Simple answer, since I do NOT ever exemplar that character? Respec, I removed a bunch of recharge slotting (sometimes I had been forced to forgo the 5th or 6th slots in a set) like fireball (posi set is awesome but crap for natural recharge), or only liked slotting 2 50 rech IO's in Build Up. Now I could remove those recharges and either fill their space with sets or move the newly acquired slots to other powers to do more with what I had.

I, personally heavily invested in IO's on most of my scrappers, find I have a huge global acc bonus. So nerve is unimportant, however, without IO's, I could see nerve taking the same role, removing the need to acc slot every attacking power. Or perhaps on an SR for example, you would gain a large amount of defense due to the number of defense abilities affected. (esp the passives, which we often underslot due to piddly enhancement returns, causing them to still be able to eke out another 1-2 def before even hitting ED)


"Fascinating. I'm not bored at all, I swear." -Kikuchiyo

 

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I run Nerve on my Rad/Rad defender for four reasons.

Choking Cloud: Getting choking cloud up to the level where hold procs last longer than it ticks is a huge part of my damage mitigation as a solo defender. More hold duration is delicious, and increases the reliability of having all non-bosses held by the second tick.

Lingering Radiation: The most powerful anti-AV tool in my arsenal, Lingering Radiation requires a to-hit roll to be of any use. Considering the need for speed and regeneration debuffs, I need this power to never miss - even when it's a +4 AV with a crazy high level of defense.

World of Confusion: In my Psychic Mastery build, I use World of Confusion as a second damage mitigator. Yes, it has a tiny duration, but the tiny duration does stack, making it possible to confuse even bosses. Even if the confusion doesn't proc a second time, the extra duration from the Incarnate slot often has my foes making another attack in my name before it ends.

Vengeance: In my Power Mastery build, I use Power Build Up in conjunction with Vengeance to increase my teammate's defense to near Elude levels. Nerve makes this even "more so."


Proud member of the Steel 70! | Global @Radmofet ; usually on Pinnacle, sometimes on Virtue.

 

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did spiritual on my ill/kin/power team build as musculature and cardiac aren't really as helpful with kinetics and i had power boost for duration and tons of accuracy anyway.

but then i realized solo it was being held back by the lack of damage in the primal set, so i planned for switching to stone and slotting for S/L then R defense to survive melee range for the stone powers. i was done with most of the sets but the expensive ones but then got nerve tier 2 and realized that i might be able to avoid getting kinetic combat sets if i went all the way with nerve. definitely a boost of a 3-5% with rare so far, considering i have stone armor, cj, weave, and maneuvers. allowed me to underslot for acc and hold duration and not miss power boost when i am practically softcapped for cheap.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kractis_Sky View Post
If you use 3 lvl52* membranes in active defense and 3 lvl52* Cytos (i think) in battle agility, with double stacked active defense and Grant Cover, you can attain 95% DDR. Bug? Yes. Its on Paragonwiki, too. It's been known for a long time and I dont see it changing. I like it as a design feature to really make people think more creatively about slotting.
I hope they quash that bug. SD being allowed to copy Super Reflexes' best trick (obtaining softcap and then maintaining it with capped DDR) and bring everything else it brings is just wrong.


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Originally Posted by YoumuKonpaku View Post
Cinders:

Recharges in 70.67 seconds on my current build, 94.86% accurate vs +4s, lasts 20.22 seconds.

Adding Spiritual Very Rare results in a 62.64s recharge.

Replacing that with a Nerve Very Rare results in a 24.02 duration.

So, I can have it come up 8 seconds faster, or last 4 seconds longer.
Well, from a purely numbers based perspective, the 4 seconds longer is better.

20.22/62.64 = 0.323
24.02/70.67 = 0.340

So, with the extra 4 seconds from nerve, cinders will be active 34.0% of the time. While with the 8 second reduction from spiritual, cinders will only be active 32.3% of the time.


Main Hero: Mazey - level 50 + 1 fire/fire/fire blaster.
Main Villain: Chained Bot - level 50 + 1 Robot/FF Mastermind.

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I don't think that is relevant unless you are trying to chain-hold the same group of critters over and over again. In real play, moving from spawn to spawn, it would be more valuable to have the power recharge faster since a decent team will knock over a spawn before the hold ends (especially with domination rolling).

But, as you said, from a purely numbers perspective, yes, it is better.


 

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Nerve is like a godhood to my wp/db tanker.

due to the combo nature of DB, extra acc is always welcome. It adds to "taunt" effects, which of course is the lone glaring weakness of a WP tanker, ANNNND

Thanks to a little creative IO'ing, the def buff has my wp tanker softcapped vs every type of damage except psy (she's only at 41% for psy).

no other alpha slot power fits any of my characters as well as Nerve fits this one.


 

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I definitely am planning on Nerve for my DB/EA stalker


 

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The problem with nerve isn't the defense enhancement, because defense is great and lots of builds use it.

The problem is the accuracy. Not that accuracy is bad, but most of the characters I'm regularly playing at 50 are long since acc-capped via slotted enhancement and set bonuses. There's always room for more recharge or more damage, but piling on more accuracy is literally useless for most of my builds.


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