Scrapper/brute... how do you choose?

At some point, I thought brutes got better defensive numbers than scrappers, but that apparently isn't so. So the differences seem to be:

* Fury vs. Critical
* Hit point pool
* Taunt (brutes get multi-target taunt)

... am I missing any? Well, presumably. So what are the key differences? If you have a theme in mind, and the sets are available for both brute and scrapper, how would you decide?

Brutes get Scrapper values for defensive powers, but they have Tanker level resist caps. That doesn't matter much when solo (unless you are /Fire and fighting fire users or you hit something like Unstoppable) but if you have resist buffs available a resist based Brute can get tougher than a resist based Scrapper. The more important thing is the Brute's higher hit points... they can take more damage than Scrappers and heal faster.

And of course Brutes and Scrappers have different power sets. In general Brutes do a bit less damage and are a bit harder to kill, but there are exceptions. I doubt many Scrappers can match a high recharge SS/Shield Brute for AoE damage, for instance... though Spines/Fire might come close. On the other hand, many Scrappers can cut down a boss faster than a Brute.

I personally prefer Blasters to either (to heck with staying alive, give me more damage!) but when I do play melee I tend to like both Scrappers and Brutes about equally. Some specific sets are better on one than the other, like Kinetic Melee which is significantly better on Scrappers due to the fact that they get more out of Power Siphon and can recharge it quicker. Dark Armor, on the other hand, is fabulous on Brutes because their larger HP total makes better use of the huge heal. And of course the big consideration: Scrappers can't have axes, clubs, or big stone hammers, and Brutes can't have single swords or spines.

(Before I19's fury adjustments I'd have said Brute > Scrapper for anything both can take, but Scrappers can actually outdamage Brutes now so it's harder to decide.)

Differences in the ancillary/epic power pools. For example, in the Soul Mastery Pool, Brutes get Darkest Night while Scrappers get Shadow Meld.

Brutes also get stone armour, and their fury can singlehandedly remove much of the -damage drawback (though the recharge and movement drawbacks still need some work to handle). Well, and Energy aura, I guess.

Scrappers have Regeneration, which probably counts for something, maybe.

I put it down to if I want to be a steamroller (Brute) or a blender (Scrapper). Scrappers can afford to be lazy due to not needing to keep up with their fury bar (press a button and they'll go, with no problems of stopping if needed, not that it's easy to stop once you start of course) while Brutes can and will destroy everything in their path, so long as they've the time to build up their fury (like a steamroller slowly edging towards a hill, takes it's time but then it goes VROOM and everything's gone splat).

Just go into a little more detail here,
Brutes base damage is lower on one hand, but Fury changes that, which puts your damage at +scrapper levels, and is constant as long as you can keep your fury bar up. Additionally they can take more punishment

Scrappers have very good damage right out of the box

Or to use an analogy, Brutes are like freight trains, it takes a while to get going, but once they get going they hit hard

Scrappers are like one of those sport cars that can hit 100 in a few sec

Scrappers have the edge in a "social" team, where players are pausing to banter or taking time outs to discuss strategy, because little pauses don't make you feel like you're losing fury.

I've lost my appeal for Brutes since the damage cap and fury changes. It's the visual thing with the gauge never going to full that bugs me, but I also like bigger orange numbers. Since then I've rolled 4 Scrappers, and to me other than damage output, Tankers have everything the Brute has but better. These days, if I wanted to make a melee character there's no hesitation. Scrapper.

It’s a matter of play style. If you like brutes make a brute. If you like scrappers make a scrapper. For the most part the difference in dmg (if you are good at bruteing at least) will be minor or almost unnoticeable.
Of course there are those few exceptions like a kin/SD where the scrapper is going to totally and completely out dmg the brute...a lot.

Most of the time, scrappers do more damage than brutes, if only by a hair.

Most of the time, brutes survive longer than scrappers, if only by a hair.

Some sets aren't available to both ATs. If you want to swing a sword, you've got to be a scrapper. If you want to be a giant piece of rock that occasionally moves towards some targets, you've got to be a brute.

If I have a character concept that's more like a brute (tougher, slow to start, becomes stronger as he fights), I'll pick brute. If I have a character concept that's more like a scrapper (consistent strength, harder hitting, precise strikes), I'll pick scrapper.

Brutes have some expectation of being survivable. Scrappers, not so much. So if you'd rather just kill stuff on a team without being expected to tank or take hits, go with a Scrapper. Nobody's surprised when the /Fiery Scrapper faceplants.

(I say this with affection, as my current favorite character is a suicidal WP Scrapper and I intend to make a Fiery Scrapper soon.)

Ideally a Brute doesn't need to be asked to tank. They're already in the middle of the next spawn before the rest of the team is ready to go.

It could also be that I just have too many Scrappers, and my Widow plays alot like a Claws/SR Scrapper... which I also have.

....

How many times have said the word "Scrapper?"

...Crap. >_<

Yeah, I have a BS/WP who can effectively tank as long as I can parry a couple of times before hopping into the next spawn.

Thanks for the feedback, this actually sort of helps -- most of all by confirming that there's a bit of ambiguity and personal preference. I'm still not sure whether I like the fury mechanic to begin with, but then, I'm not sure I like crits either. Fury gives the (arguable) advantage that you have a much better sense for how much damage your attacks will do at any given time, because they're consistent for any given fury level. But the lack of damage early in fights is rough.

I don't really understand the fury changes. My experience has been that, with a decent number of enemies available, I mostly spend my time hovering around a 100% damage bonus.

Basically solo, a Scrapper and a Brute are about equal. They have the same defenses, so the Brute will last a little longer on his hit points -- but will use them up building Fury. So it comes out to a wash.

On a team, the Scrapper will pull ahead on damage, while the Brute will pull ahead on survivability. With his lower base damage, the Brute can't be offensively buffed as well, but his higher hit points give him the advantage with defensive buffs. So the further you buff a Brute, the further he gets from a Scrapper and closer he gets to a Tanker.

As mentioned, from a purely min/max standpoint this is the ideal, not only is the Brute "good enough" at doing what both the Scrapper and the Tanker are capable of doing, but it adapts to what is needed on the team. If there aren't a lot of good buffers on the team, the Brute is a damage dealer, while if there are, he can keep the buffers alive to buff him. So he's really a Scrapper when he needs to be a Scrapper and a Tanker when he needs to be a Tanker.

The drawbacks are the Fury system, which some people just don't like, and that while a Brute is close, as a hybrid it can't really match what a Scrapper or Tanker are capable of. The Tanker and the Scrapper are about reliability, while the Brute depends a lot on pressing your luck, often to the breaking point.

I honestly don't prefer either of the three, I can see the uniqueness of each of them, and I play all three of them.

Your damage bonus should be around 120-150%. At least, that's what about 65%-75% Fury is, and that's pretty much where it stays for me. Unless I have Rage, then it hovers around 200%.

Brutes can have their damage buffed more than a scrapper. This rarely comes into effect in actual play though.

I usually pick Brutes because I like the upside potential they have when buffs are available. I'm not a big fan of the fury mechanic, especially after the changes, but I don't dislike it enough to favor Scrappers generally.

Another reason is I hate dealing with runners. While it is "realistic" that a mob might flee when you just pwnt his buddy in the face, it doesn't make encounters more difficult, just more annoying. The mini-gauntlet Brutes get means rarely having to deal with runners. Mobs turn to flee, then turn right back around and run back. If all else was equal this would be enough to make me pick Brutes.