Arachnos vs Longbow vs IDF vs Vanguard
By
Anti_Proton,
Posted on: 2011-01-17 18:47 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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It was something like:|
Originally Posted by Daemodand
Arachnos vs Longbow:
Game mechanics wise, I think Castle a long time back said that in a large engagement Longbow tends to win. I don't remember specifically why, but I think stacking Leadership buffs might have something to do with it. |
"Good shall always defeat Evil thanks to superior buff modifiers."
Arc #40529 : The Furies of the Earth
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I think it's the Well which controls Cole, not the other way round. |
Originally Posted by Arilou
(although they're further augmented by Cole's control of the Well of Furies)
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Side note, if we add Nemesis to the equation, who would win?
(I think ingame wise it depends on how many lieutenants they can field..)
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Well, by virtue of random targetting and AoEs, the minions WOULD FALL FIRST, meaning by the time the Lt.s started falling, chances are you'd end up with half the Lt.s and the bosses as nigh invincible killing machines.
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Originally Posted by Signpost
I think it's the Well which controls Cole, not the other way round.
Side note, if we add Nemesis to the equation, who would win? (I think ingame wise it depends on how many lieutenants they can field..) |
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.
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Well thier armor is damn tough in any event.
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Originally Posted by Razoras
... yes...?
What I am saying is, if IDF is so easy to wipe out with modern tech what makes the Rikti different? They aren't bullet proof, either. |
------->"Sic Semper Tyrannis"<-------
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This is the logical way to go about answering the question. Theorycrafting about it will get you nowhere really.
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Originally Posted by Master Zaprobo
So, anyone set this up in AE yet? All you need a nice large map with multiple Battle spawn points. Hop on in test mode as invisible/invulnerable and see what the outcome is of these fights!
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But there's no IDF in AE yet.|
Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
This is the logical way to go about answering the question. Theorycrafting about it will get you nowhere really.
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But as a random fun fact: Rikti kick Malta's ***.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.
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Oh, I thought they'd been added last round, my mistake.|
Originally Posted by AzureSkyCiel
But there's no IDF in AE yet.
But as a random fun fact: Rikti kick Malta's ***. |
Rikti kick Maltas ***? Really? That's a bit mad.
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well, it makes sense if you think about it: Malta would be kind of like the pinnacle of earth Military, who, as covered in this thread, got their butts handed to them by the Rikti.|
Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
Oh, I thought they'd been added last round, my mistake.
Rikti kick Maltas ***? Really? That's a bit mad. |
but the funny part was, in the mission I found this out in was a test of an AE are i had been working on. Malta was supposed to be raiding the rikti base and I figured, like unprepared players, the rikti would get curbstomped, instead I watched the battles unfold with rikti shrugging off Malta's stuns and end drains and one shotting them with their swords.
Boy was my face red.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.
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What I meant was, in the timeline of Praetoria the Rikti don't seem to have been a threat. This means the two would never meet. It'd be interesting to see what would happen if the Rikti invaded Praetoria today.
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Originally Posted by Razoras
... yes...?
What I am saying is, if IDF is so easy to wipe out with modern tech what makes the Rikti different? They aren't bullet proof, either. If you want to drag the real world into this and use it to suggest that the IDF is not a threat then you have to apply the same logic to other world threats in game. And then you see that posting links to military tech is pointless because applying real world logic only reveals that we're not playing a game set in the real world and instead a world that has its own internal logic. In that internal logic, the IDF most certainly would be a real threat. |
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
It's a comic book universe, so the CoX analogue of the real world militaries will be incompetent and/or jerks. Remember, stupid as he is, General Z is a general. You saw them in the Carsh Site, you see them in the Shadow Shard, you see them shooting, but do you ever see them actually defeat anything? No. Because they suck. They have to suck, or we wouldn't need made-up military groups, we'd have to use the "real" military, and then any arcs involving them would potentially open up a whole can of political debate.
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Not entirely surprising. Malta does rely on lethal damage, which Rikti lieutenants and bosses resist, and mezzes and end drains, which Rikti get AM to protect themselves from.|
Originally Posted by AzureSkyCiel
but the funny part was, in the mission I found this out in was a test of an AE are i had been working on. Malta was supposed to be raiding the rikti base and I figured, like unprepared players, the rikti would get curbstomped, instead I watched the battles unfold with rikti shrugging off Malta's stuns and end drains and one shotting them with their swords.
Boy was my face red. |
I would suggest that the IDF would win simply because they can churn out War Walker and Olympian Guard EBs in force. They also have replacable AVs in their Goliath War Walkers. None of the other groups have any AVs except for signature characters. Cole can also conscript whoever he wants to, and devote however much of Praetoria's resources as he wants to outfitting his army.
Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
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I still have to wonder if the War Walkers/Warworks are affected by EMP.
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Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
It's a comic book universe, so the CoX analogue of the real world militaries will be incompetent and/or jerks. Remember, stupid as he is, General Z is a general. You saw them in the Carsh Site, you see them in the Shadow Shard, you see them shooting, but do you ever see them actually defeat anything? No. Because they suck. They have to suck, or we wouldn't need made-up military groups, we'd have to use the "real" military, and then any arcs involving them would potentially open up a whole can of political debate.
Not entirely surprising. Malta does rely on lethal damage, which Rikti lieutenants and bosses resist, and mezzes and end drains, which Rikti get AM to protect themselves from. I would suggest that the IDF would win simply because they can churn out War Walker and Olympian Guard EBs in force. They also have replacable AVs in their Goliath War Walkers. None of the other groups have any AVs except for signature characters. Cole can also conscript whoever he wants to, and devote however much of Praetoria's resources as he wants to outfitting his army. |
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
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I dunno, grab a Rad Emission character and find out. As far as being entirely shut down by EMPs, probably not. EMP shielding is the first thing comic book tech gets. Otherwise the fight would be over pretty fast.
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Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
I still have to wonder if the War Walkers/Warworks are affected by EMP.
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Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
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Well to be fair, most of the recognized hero community was decimated by the Rikti too. Their tech was way beyond anything we had and unlike us at the time, they had medi-porters and could continually recycle troops back into the fight. This is probably why they saw no need for armor back in those days.
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Originally Posted by Paragon
Minigun vs. superhero: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLN3dPMyXeg
Yes, it's Supertwink, er, Superman. However, in the world of City of, Supertwink is an Invulnerability/Super Strength Tanker. There are dozens if not hundreds of similar characters running around the streets of Paragon City or the Rogue Isles every day. Why did the armies fall to the Rikti? They thought they could use bullets against super-riktihumans. |
"Samual_Tow - Be disappointed all you want, people. You just don't appreciate the miracles that are taking place here."
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Well, it's more important than actual testing, because the devs will adjust enemies to fit the lore and the mission and arc stories |
Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
Theorycrafting about it will get you nowhere really.
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It doesn't matter how powerful Longbow, Vanguard and Arachnos are in the game - if the devs say that they all need to join forces to defeat the IDF, then that means that the IDF are the toughest group
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
The real answer is Nemesis. Not because he planned the whole thing, but because of stacking Vengeance. I can just picture a little Jaeger taking out entire legions of enemies after a few dozen applications of sweet, sweet Vengeance. And that picture makes me laugh.
They ALL float down here. When you're down here with us, you'll float too!
@Starflier
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don't forget: Nemesis gas, Nemesis gas everywhere!
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Originally Posted by Starflier
The real answer is Nemesis. Not because he planned the whole thing, but because of stacking Vengeance. I can just picture a little Jaeger taking out entire legions of enemies after a few dozen applications of sweet, sweet Vengeance. And that picture makes me laugh.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.
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You must not know the numbers for invulnerability from before GDN and ED (if you mean post GDN, but pre ED, you might be right). |
Originally Posted by Paragon
Pre-IOs, I agree. With soft-capped typed defenses from IO bonuses however, I think some Invulnerability Tankers are actually more powerful now than pre-ED. But that's getting off topic.
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Back in the day (I1-I4) an invulnerability tanker would have capped resistance to everything but psi and toxic (90% of course) as well as almost constantly capped defense due to the bug which double stacked invincibility. For most purposes they took around 1% of incoming damage.
Back in I1-I2, with perma-unstoppable, they could pull this off with an incredible endurance pool.
Perma-hasten was also easy to obtain. Of course there were no global recharge bonuses, so that's the only major shortfall.
For a while there hami-Os gave a 50% boost to powers, and that really made for badass tankers. You could run around easily damage capped.
While I like IOs, and respect the power levels they can provide, no, they are nowhere near the power levels once found in the game.
Too many alts to list.
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Thematics as the story progresses.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Well, it's more important than actual testing, because the devs will adjust enemies to fit the lore and the mission and arc stories
It doesn't matter how powerful Longbow, Vanguard and Arachnos are in the game - if the devs say that they all need to join forces to defeat the IDF, then that means that the IDF are the toughest group |
Much like a comic book, a new enemy is freaking hardcore. Then as the story develops, they become less and less exceptional.
More specifically, it's the start of the conflict, as it goes on, the relevant sides will discover how to utilize their strengthes against the enemies' weaknesses.
Let's Dance!
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Problem with that is Preatoria on average has far superior tech then us. I mean yeah we have some pretty crazy tech but out technology only comes to equal Preatoria tech in a few fields such as ground troop weapons and mechanized units. Stuff like our real world military stuff such as tanks/planes/warships is far outclassed(like the badge that says they have planes that accelerate to mach 2 before leaving the ground). Then there are all the non-military stuff that supports the military which we don't even come close for most of it, for example their power sources.
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Originally Posted by LegionAlpha
I am not a military man myself but I would think CoX does not give Earth's military a fraction of credit when it comes to contingency plans. When they first opened the portal to nazi Earth for the first time, I would suspect the world governments would know what right off what they were in for and/or should prepare for. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PPce...eature=related.
I do not care what armor you have, you get hit with this, your done. And since they have their faces exposed. Imagine getting hit in the jaw by one of these guns.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNW3E...eature=related The my point is, get the IDF against a unified military from around the world, with strong weapons to back them up,you will alot of Praetorian's running for cover or home to Tyrant crying like little girls. |
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In addition, they seem to have more access to incarnate-level abilities, which is why only our incarnate level characters can handle them.|
Originally Posted by psycheout
Problem with that is Preatoria on average has far superior tech then us. I mean yeah we have some pretty crazy tech but out technology only comes to equal Preatoria tech in a few fields such as ground troop weapons and mechanized units. Stuff like our real world military stuff such as tanks/planes/warships is far outclassed(like the badge that says they have planes that accelerate to mach 2 before leaving the ground). Then there are all the non-military stuff that supports the military which we don't even come close for most of it, for example their power sources.
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Though I guess technically the Midnight Squad is the strongest faction currently.
(Vanguard doesn't count because there's too much infighting and backstabbing, see Villain mishes which goes against Vanguard/Restructurists, along with that whole "engaging a massive war" issue)
IMO (all at the exact same threat level, ie IDF are not level 54 while Longbow are 50): Malta > IDF > Arachnos > Vanguard > Longbow
Yes, I introduced Malta into the equation. Sue me.