Interestingly enough the Praetorian police and Resistance chest details manage to mostly get the fit right on the front and back of the torso in spite of body models having variable scaling. Make a jetpack harness chest detail similar to those. Make it so that the piece then locks out the use of capes and wings.
Yeah, it's almost certainly not that simple. Wishful thinking really.
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
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Uhm Adeon all they have to do is design a jetpack graphic where part of the jet pack imbeds into the avatar the same way Wings do. The Jetpack thrusters can easily sit far enough away from the back so they don't look like they are being swallowed up by a huge avatar, and yet on a smaller avatar you would see more of the part of the jetpack that is flush with the back. It just looks bulkier on a smaller avatar.|
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
As I understand it the problem isn't selecting the attach point it's due to the way that the pieces interact with the body. The wings naturally imbed themselves in the body so the fact that they are sitting at varying distances from the characters actual "back" isn't really noticeable. However for jetpacks to look good they really need to rest fluch against the character's back which means that the distance of the costume part fromt he attach point varies based on the character's body type and size.
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The jets don't have to fit snug against the back. Heck they could even do a helicopter backpack.
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Whenever I see pieces like that, such as those, the bioluminescent pieces, or the resistance pieces, I can't help but think they're technology tests and proof of concept pieces, ways to feel the technology out for improvement down the line, and that we'll get more complex variants of them or even see the technology in use, as you say, for things like backpacks and so on.
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Originally Posted by Schismatrix
Interestingly enough the Praetorian police and Resistance chest details manage to mostly get the fit right on the front and back of the torso in spite of body models having variable scaling. Make a jetpack harness chest detail similar to those. Make it so that the piece then locks out the use of capes and wings.
Yeah, it's almost certainly not that simple. Wishful thinking really. |
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Uhm Adeon all they have to do is design a jetpack graphic where part of the jet pack imbeds into the avatar the same way Wings do. The Jetpack thrusters can easily sit far enough away from the back so they don't look like they are being swallowed up by a huge avatar, and yet on a smaller avatar you would see more of the part of the jetpack that is flush with the back. It just looks bulkier on a smaller avatar.
The jets don't have to fit snug against the back. Heck they could even do a helicopter backpack. |
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Originally Posted by Bad_Influence
I have never suggested adding the ones we have now as permanent backpieces. What I am saying is that the art department has already created many backpacks that are in the game now, its not like they don't know how to draw backpacks. My guess is that the backpack crowd is seen as relatively few players, therefore the issue has been placed on the permanent back-burner. I'm not on the art team so of course that is just a guess.
As far as them looking good on everyone, we have stuff in the game now that looks stupid on some body sizes and types: see: trenchcoats. That's never stopped anyone before. |
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| I just find one of our resident trolls faux-sweetly cooing "Be patient now, my restless little children! Soon!" over an issue that has BEEN an issue almost since the launch of the game, to be both annoying and fatuous. Like people have not been patient! Pah-LEASE. |
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It's time to face getting back details - eventually |
Originally Posted by Bad_Influence
I'm not even interested in jetpacks, I just know when its been more than long enough, and now is it. We are not getting them, its time to face facts.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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That's more likely to be included as something like a hover board |
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Confused. Aren't there already jet packs? I thought the issue is that they just aren't a standard costume piece, or can't/haven't been tied to fly animations like jet-boots have.
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Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
Confused. Aren't there already jet packs?
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There are - and more than one style too.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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I just don't think Jetpacks have been a priority.
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Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
Maybe it is just the devs being lazy , honestly I don't know but I will point out most of the time if it's just a case of feeling something isn't worth the effort they say that rather than saying that they have problems doing it right.
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Jetpack costume recipes are what I would like to see. Costume recipes are a wonderful way of adding flexibility to what after 6 years have become boring travel powers.|
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
Confused. Aren't there already jet packs? I thought the issue is that they just aren't a standard costume piece, or can't/haven't been tied to fly animations like jet-boots have.
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Just like wings we could have a variety of recipes to choose from
Jetpacks
Hover Discs
Flying Carpets
Broomsticks
Helicopter Backpacks
Flying Boards
Roller Blades
Skate Boards
Pogo Stick (I'm spitballing for SJ)
Unicycle
I am just curious who crafts that Jet Pack the cost 40k + salvage when they can get a cheaper recipe or or buy one from a vender?
@Blood Beret(2)Twitter
I am a bad speeler, use poorer grammar, and am a frequent typoist.
MA ArcID: 1197
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. Winston Churchill
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Yeah, they seem to be hinting in that direction. Would make sense too since a lot of people have been asking for steam punk for a while now, and what with the devs talking more and more about giving us what we want...
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
From some of the hints they've been giving, I think something steampunk-ish might be coming after the animal booster
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"Where does he get those wonderful toys?" - The Joker
1. Make a copy of tech wings
2. Change animation so that they extend but do not flap*
3. Add some fancy particle effect while wings are extended
4. ???
5. Jetpack!
* I've already requested this for most/all wings in one of Noble Savages threads. Hovering-with-wings-extended-and-immobile is somewhat common in other media, we could use it here. And I do not see how copying existing pieces and removing animations would be hard.
I do not suffer from altitis, I enjoy every character of it.
One of the reasons current temp power jet packs embed themselves in the backs of Huge characters and hover off the backs of Female characters is that they're power effects no different from Fire Sword or Stone Fists. It's the same problem that weapons used to have back when they had to have only one look and size and location that fit all models and sizes. This is because power effects can't really interact with the costume system, so they HAVE to be a one-size-fits-all.
If jet packs are made into costume details and actually put on an attachment point, they should be able to follow the back of the character much more closely. David mentioned there being a technical issue with them, but never specified what it was. Whatever that issue is, it can't be that.
One issue with jet packs, at least the current Raptor Pack, is that they're very big back pieces that extend all the way down to the pelvis, meaning that either they have to limit spine curve (which they can't) or clip with your character's butt a lot. This problem, however, is solvable by using smaller jet packs that don't extend that far down and instead have their operating parts shifted back and to the sides like the Goldbricker jet pack, or the Jingle Jet.
Another problem I can foresee is the need for jet pack engines to actually face in the direction of movement, which current jet packs don't do, and it's very annoying and distracting. Currently, jet pack jets face "down" on the pack itself, where the direction of "down" is determined by the position of the back, and the way characters hunch over in combat mode, their jets usually fire backwards at an angle, looking like the character should be constantly sliding forward. A perfect jet pack would be one with vectored thrust that would account at least for basic combat mode and vector its thrust down when hovering even when the actual pack is at an angle. I'm not sure if anyone but me cares about this, however.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Asking for thrust vectoring is a bit too much Sam. At this rate we'll be lucky to see them as static costume parts.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Another problem I can foresee is the need for jet pack engines to actually face in the direction of movement, which current jet packs don't do, and it's very annoying and distracting. Currently, jet pack jets face "down" on the pack itself, where the direction of "down" is determined by the position of the back, and the way characters hunch over in combat mode, their jets usually fire backwards at an angle, looking like the character should be constantly sliding forward. A perfect jet pack would be one with vectored thrust that would account at least for basic combat mode and vector its thrust down when hovering even when the actual pack is at an angle. I'm not sure if anyone but me cares about this, however.
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What I don't undersand is why they cant have a scrip read the toon's costume info, and then automatically place the jet-pack at a point that looks good based on where the physique slider is. In short the current attachment point is in the middle of the body right? So place it at the point where its Attachment point + distance to back +/- Physique slider, so that it rests right on the back. But it may be that they can't control that.
Captain Den'Rath 53* Merk/Traps MM, Rivona 50Energy Blast/Time Cor,Victoria Von Heilwig 53* Dual Pistols/Traps Cor, Crab Spider Webguard 53* SOA, Accela 53* Bot/FF MM,Valkyrie's Executor 53* Broadsword/Shield Def Scrap. On FREEDOM! @Knight Of Bronze
"Hypocrisy, the human inherent." "Let not this work be wasted, apply yourself always."
I've mentioned it before, but the Art Team's been looking into the possibility of backpacks. We definitely want to make some for you, but all I can say for now is "stay tuned..."
David Nakayama, Lead Concept Artist
COH Concept Art Gallery now open at http://pixelsaurus.deviantart.com/
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Because you are awesome.|
Originally Posted by Noble Savage
I've mentioned it before, but the Art Team's been looking into the possibility of backpacks. We definitely want to make some for you, but all I can say for now is "stay tuned..."
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Okay, praise given, now give us the packs!
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
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Backpacks and sheaths/scabbards would help out and do a lot for the natural crowd. The last seventy jillion* costume pieces have all been tech in theme. I was pretty disappointed that my regular natural characters pretty much couldn't wear a single costume part that came with GR.|
Originally Posted by Noble Savage
I've mentioned it before, but the Art Team's been looking into the possibility of backpacks. We definitely want to make some for you, but all I can say for now is "stay tuned..."
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Also don't think we didn't notice Maelstrom's pistol holsters are combat animated to disappear when he pulls them out.
* = number may be slightly exaggerated or even fictional
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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Yeah, I remember you mentioning that in the All Things Art thread, though you never explained what the hurdle was. I appreciate the efforts and the communication, David. So long as we know this is being looked into, at least a fair portion of us can be patient about it.
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Originally Posted by Noble Savage
I've mentioned it before, but the Art Team's been looking into the possibility of backpacks. We definitely want to make some for you, but all I can say for now is "stay tuned..."
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Thanks for dropping by. You and the art team kick a**. |
Originally Posted by Noble Savage
I've mentioned it before, but the Art Team's been looking into the possibility of backpacks. We definitely want to make some for you, but all I can say for now is "stay tuned..."
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I like the Jingle Jet solution: there are two auxilary jets that activate or deactivate depending on what the character is doing.|
Originally Posted by Bronze Knight
Asking for thrust vectoring is a bit too much Sam. At this rate we'll be lucky to see them as static costume parts.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Yeah, I remember you mentioning that in the All Things Art thread, though you never explained what the hurdle was.
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(I had exactly these problems when trying to create a good-looking backpack in Second Life, so it's not just CoH that has difficulties.)
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Oh I did..... WANT NAO! |
Originally Posted by Dispari
Also don't think we didn't notice Maelstrom's pistol holsters are combat animated to disappear when he pulls them out.
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If you're using Firefox you might be interested in https://addons.mozilla.org/fr/firefo...nagement-for-/
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
The worst part about the forums logging me out is that it unignores Golden Girl until I relog.
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As I said before, I find this comes down to jetpack design. Making the jet pack smaller and/or just short vertically solves the clipping issues without needing bending metal. The pack can still consist of large engines moved off to the side, as long as the actual back attachment doesn't extend below the rib cage. Articulated jet packs are a cool idea and should probably be worked on, but as a basic proof of concept, I'd be happy with a "Lara Croft backpack" size back attachment with wings, engines or thrusters mounted on struts off to the side or shifted back and away.|
Originally Posted by Katie V
As I recall, the problem is the lack of a good attachment point. If you attach the backpack to the shoulders (the same place as wings attach), the bottom lifts off the character's back during any forward-bend animation, and sticks into or through the pelvis during back-bend animations. If you attach it at the center of mass, you get the float/embed problems the jetpacks have. If you attach it at the pelvis (the same place as belts attach), you get the straps detaching from the shoulders during forward bends, and sticking into the back during backward bends. The correct solution is to attach the pack at all three points and flex/stretch with the character's motion, but it's very difficult to get that to look good, and I don't think the CoH animation system can deal with three-point attachment.
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Now BACKPACKS are a different matter. Those would need to bend and fold.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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There are no words for what this community, and the friends I have made here mean to me. Please know that I care for all of you, yes, even you. If you Twitter, I'm MrThan. If you're Unleashed, I'm dumps. I'll try and get registered on the Titan Forums as well. Peace, and thanks for the best nine years anyone could ever ask for.