NCSoft Launcher (couldn't find a better place to put this)
By
Bronze Knight,
Posted on: 2011-01-10 14:29 in Suggestions and Ideas
Cain live in death, Cain live in death!
CAIN LIVES!!
*cough*
Either way, yeah, if it does all that? Do not want.
I LIKE the current launcher. Its sleek, its efficient, it does it's job. Replaceing my favourite little window with some horrendous behemoth? Heeeeell No!
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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I am optimistic and happy with the continuing progress of the game, but I do NOT WANT a slower launcher! The only side benefit I can see of this is making subscribers of other games aware of us, but that's it. Not enough to force bogged down applications on us.
@Kyuu
What is wrong with the current launcher? Is it broken? Did it stop working? I see no reason to replace it. It's small, and it serves exactly one function: it downloads and installs patches, and then gets out of the way. There's no reason it needs to be a "does everything" application. (Frankly, I have the same issue with a lot of security software. I don't *want* an ten gigabyte behemoth of an email/virus/malware scanner with built in firewall and kitten brusshing app. I'd rather have a separate program for each function that does that ONE thing very well than something that does twenty things badly.)
Add me to the "do not want" camp.
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I think the best way to answer this is to point to this thread that I started in April 2010: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=216429|
Originally Posted by ShadowsBetween
What is wrong with the current launcher?
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Mod05 would probably get a little upset if I bumped it though... and trust me... I seriously considered bumping it.
How does it work on OS X, currently? It's not external to the whole Cider... thing, I'd assume - which does make me wonder just what they'll do with the launcher exactly. Aion, by contrast (and the only other one of theirs I have/have run) didn't have a separate launcher, but went right into the game from there.
(Personally, I don't recall having a problem with the launcher - then again, used it w/Aion and COH after getting my current i7-860.)
I've used the NCSoft Launcher, when I tried out Exteel and Dungeon Runners. In fact, the NCSoft Launcher already detects CoH and puts it on the list of games you've got on your system. The problem is that "launching" CoH from the NCSoft Launcher actually just launches cohupdater.exe. And because the NCSoft Launcher is tied to the CoH updater program rather than CoH itself, the NCSoft Launcher is unable to perform its primary function: Update your game(s) while your computer is inactive.
I have no problem with the NCSoft Launcher... except that I don't like Exteel, Dungeon Runners was shut down, and it doesn't work properly with Guild Wars or City of Heroes. (I have no experience with other NCSoft games.)
Now, I don't know about the Launcher's functionality on OSX. But Linux is not an officially supported platform (despite high similarities to OSX), so breaking functionality on Linux isn't really NSCoft's problem; they never told you that it would work on Linux in the first place.
With regard to portability of .Net: It's meant to be a portable interface. The fact that the only fully functioning implementation was created by Microsoft for Windows is not the problem with .Net. AFAIK, everything running on .Net uses managed languages, meaning of course that the programs produced will be slower, but while I used the NCSoft Launcher in the past I never noticed any serious resource hogging.
Finally, I have no idea why you recommend an HTML layout engine for an application of any sort, let alone an application which manages others.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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Since I have absolutely no experience with the NCSoft Launcher I can't really comment on it's (lack of?) capabilities, I don't ever recall seeing anywhere that Linux was a supported OS for "City of...".|
Originally Posted by je_saist
Thing is, .NET is not a supported API on *nix systems. While .NET applications can be run against *nix, doing so requires using Attachmate Mono.
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Not that I'm against it working on Linux, if they haven't feel the need to support CoX on the Linux platform, THAT is the area I think you should focus your attentions on, NOT railing against the launcher, no matter how good or bad it is, that will probably make CoX not work on Linux.
In my experience with .NET software in the banking IT industry, I often found a "bloated and buggy piece of .NET crapware" would run just fine if all you did was give it more hardware horsepower. More than a couple hardware upgrades at work over the years were prompted by single instances of software upgrades that were required to be run on the hardware that wasn't quite up to par.
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Because when I say QT most people think CELL PHONES.|
Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
Finally, I have no idea why you recommend an HTML layout engine for an application of any sort, let alone an application which manages others.
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Case in point, when Valve redid the Steam user-interface, their marketers explicitly stated that the client rendering engine, you know, the pretty pictures that you click on, the text overlays, and everything else that made up the actual USER INTERFACE, was built through Webkit. Why? It was the most visible of the tools used, and the one the players would ultimately interact with the most. Users, as a general rule of thumb, don't directly interact with the code components that run xdelta and patch the game code in.
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| Now, I don't know about the Launcher's functionality on OSX. But Linux is not an officially supported platform (despite high similarities to OSX), so breaking functionality on Linux isn't really NSCoft's problem; they never told you that it would work on Linux in the first place. |
Am I supposed to just sit there and take what's dished out to me and not say anything? Am I just supposed to take table scraps as they fall to the floor and be content with the scraps?
Or am I supposed to stand up and kick collective NCSoft's rear end over missed marketing opportunities to existing clients, missed opportunities to expand their market to future clients, or missed opportunities to grow new markets to potential existing clients?
I'm going to stand up and Shout.
I am not going to go away. I will not be bribed. I will not be bought off. I am not going to be content with scraps dropped my way.
I'm fed up with the collective "main" publishers kow-towing to Microsoft and keeping Linux support as a back-room deal, as an off-the-record transaction, as bleeding table scrap dropped to hungry pups. And I don't particularly care if I'm the only one shouting. Most of the main publishers, as a general rule of thumb, have been bamboozeled by Microsoft's marketing machine that there are no Linux gamers; that Linux users don't pay for software; that Linux users are pirates; and so on and so forth. For the most part, their clientele (us) isn't willing to stand up and correct those falsehoods.
Let me put it this way. You want to see a PR rep eyes go wide white? Stop asking if they intend to produce a Linux client.
Start asking when the street date is.
Then when they say there isn't one, get up and leave the room saying they aren't worth your time. That gets their attention in a heartbeat. When the shock hits that they just lost a sale, that's when things start to change.
I am personally not a fan of the NCsoft Launcher, for the simple reason I don't feel it's needed. I've had a few run-ins with the Launcher on a rig I lend to a friend of mine who plays... Aion? Lineage? Something else from NCsoft. I have not been impressed with it.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Where you able to bypass the launcher and boot any of those games directly. I'm worried this new system won't allow me to skip a verify files screen.|
Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
I have no problem with the NCSoft Launcher... except that I don't like Exteel, Dungeon Runners was shut down, and it doesn't work properly with Guild Wars or City of Heroes. (I have no experience with other NCSoft games.) |
I got curious how many players are using Linux, and I have no way to properly get that number. I can however tell what operating systems is being used if someone is viewing an image I post on this site.
I can give a dozen reasons why these numbers aren't representing Linux and Mac fairly, but I did find it interesting that with such a small sample Linux showed up almost 2 percent of the time.
The launcher should be browser-based platform-independent java so that it can actually support multiple platforms.
And if we're being folded into the NCSoft 'family', then let's finally get an NCSoft Pass option where paying one price gives access to all NCSoft games. If they did that years ago, maybe the ones that closed down would still be going, even if only on bare-maintenance mode, making the Pass a very attractive option. After all, the 'average gamer' can't afford a premium subscription to an unlimited number of games, but, a Pay One Price subscription to a whole family of games would be something an average gamer would jump at because of the value. And in the realm of paid subscriptions, loyalty is king.
Speeding Through New DA Repeatables || Spreadsheet o' Enhancements || Zombie Skins: better skins for these forums || Guide to Guides
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The BSD-based OS X and Linux are both "UNIX-like" operating systems, so the WINE-based/forked wrapper Cider will have to pull similar contortions to get .NET working since that framework is supported only for Windows (which basically puts the lie to the claim it's a portable interface).|
Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
Now, I don't know about the Launcher's functionality on OSX. But Linux is not an officially supported platform (despite high similarities to OSX), so breaking functionality on Linux isn't really NSCoft's problem; they never told you that it would work on Linux in the first place.
With regard to portability of .Net: It's meant to be a portable interface. The fact that the only fully functioning implementation was created by Microsoft for Windows is not the problem with .Net. |
That said, while I'd obviously prefer a native OSX launcher, a JAVA-based one is preferable to one coded in the buggy, kludgy .NET framework. Enough people have had bad reactions to the current version of the NCSoft Launcher that I hope the company is considering alternatives.
I dislike the NCSoft launcher enough that it might be the tipping point for me to decide whether I'll keep my sub up or not whenever I get annoyed by the game for whatever reason.
I suppose it sounds a bit like a "I'll leave and take my 38 accounts and my SG of 4700 friends with me!" empty threat, but I'm not shaking fists or calling the devs names here, just saying despite how much I like this game, I might consider leaving it because of the launcher. It's that bad, or at least was that bad on my particular computers when I used it.
My spouse just started playing, on a netbook.
From the sounds of things, even if unintentionally, adding this new launcher may well increase the minimum requirements of the game, and stop my spouse from playing.
That will probably lose two subscriptions.
Raising the minimum requirements in any way on an ... older title is, IMHO, a Bad Idea.
/signed, to keep our current launcher;
/unsigned, to switch.
I don't think I would stop playing over it, but I hate .NET.
And an interesting study in Linux gaming would be this year's humble bundle, whihc tracked the amount paid by linux users vs. mac vs. windows, for a "pay what you want" bundle of games. Last I looked, the per user dollars for linux was equal to a mac and a windows user combined. Linux people will pay for games that work on linux.
Altoholism isn't a problem, its a calling.
60+ characters, 5 years, 3 50's.
I have a lot of prolblems with our current launcher. Conecting 247... sound familiar to any one?
I'm willing to give this NC soft launcher a try before condemning it.
Captain Den'Rath 53* Merk/Traps MM, Rivona 50Energy Blast/Time Cor,Victoria Von Heilwig 53* Dual Pistols/Traps Cor, Crab Spider Webguard 53* SOA, Accela 53* Bot/FF MM,Valkyrie's Executor 53* Broadsword/Shield Def Scrap. On FREEDOM! @Knight Of Bronze
"Hypocrisy, the human inherent." "Let not this work be wasted, apply yourself always."
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I honestly never tried. I received the Dungeon Runners box as a gift, and the game closed shortly after my membership expired. I never had technical trouble with DR, so I never had to root around my filesystem to do anything abnormal. With Exteel, I played through the tutorial and decided the game wasn't for me. (Though I didn't actually come to that conscious conclusion for about another month of not playing it.) IIRC the launcher also worked with the Tabula Rasa beta, but the network on campus didn't work with TR (I could log in and then do nothing) and then I never tried TR after the beta was over.|
Originally Posted by warden_de_dios
Where you able to bypass the launcher and boot any of those games directly.
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Of course, at that point all I had left was CoH, which wasn't compatible with the launcher, so I uninstalled it.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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I agree with this. The part I cut out was a bit dramatic for my tastes, but the message is good.|
Originally Posted by je_saist
I'm fed up with the collective "main" publishers kow-towing to Microsoft and keeping Linux support as a back-room deal, as an off-the-record transaction, as bleeding table scrap dropped to hungry pups. And I don't particularly care if I'm the only one shouting. Most of the main publishers, as a general rule of thumb, have been bamboozeled by Microsoft's marketing machine that there are no Linux gamers; that Linux users don't pay for software; that Linux users are pirates; and so on and so forth. For the most part, their clientele (us) isn't willing to stand up and correct those falsehoods.
Let me put it this way. You want to see a PR rep eyes go wide white? Stop asking if they intend to produce a Linux client. Start asking when the street date is. Then when they say there isn't one, get up and leave the room saying they aren't worth your time. That gets their attention in a heartbeat. When the shock hits that they just lost a sale, that's when things start to change. |
Once developers and publishers realize that they don't need Microsoft to make great games, I will never use another Microsoft product again. I've already cut out Apple, really they don't make anything that special anyways. Now all that's left is for game companies to pull their heads out of their ***** so I can drop Microsoft in favor of a good open source OS.
Also, stop it je_saist. This is like two out of three times(when my subscription is active) that I've agreed with you. It's freaking me out and I don't like it.
Over in the developers corner new lead-producer Second Measure indicated that 2011 would see City of Heroes merging with the NCSoft launcher application. The immediate knee-jerk response to the ... announcement ... has so far consisted of a Hell No.
For those unfamiliar with the NCSoft Launcher, that's probably a good thing. I'd call it a resource hog, but the pig union took offense at being associated with the Launcher. I'd call it slow, but not even a team of 8 ice control / cold domination / ice mastery controllers could generate that much slowness. I'd lump it in with manure, but farmers say the Launcher poisons crops.
Part of the reason for the Launchers.. abysmal reputation... is that it leverages the Microsoft .NET API. Which makes me wonder if Second Measure didn't just spill the beans on a revamped Launcher (hopefully using KHTML/WebKit) coming from NCSoft.
Thing is, .NET is not a supported API on *nix systems. While .NET applications can be run against *nix, doing so requires using Attachmate Mono.
For Second Measure to point out, explicitly, that Apple support is expected to continue, and for Melissa to make comments in the Massively interview about all the platforms CoH is supported on... makes me wonder... .NET applications are not exactly conducive to multiplatform support.
So, anyways.
If you don't want to see CoH locked into that god-awful .NET based launcher, now is probably the time to start raising cain.