A Different Sort of Question. (Touchy subject matter ahoy!)


Acanous_Quietus

 

Posted

So you have a wang, and boobs.

Guess what?

We don't care.

/thread


"People who take offense to IC actions OOCly need to learn to differentiate between the two... Or change their damn meds."

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catministrator View Post
It's a little of both, actually. I will not be actively looking for ERP, but am not averse to the idea of an honest-to-goodness romance (which need not necessarily include ERP) if such a thing occurs during the natural course of regular RP. Yet I also want to 'tag a character's trait' without it coming off as an advertisement; both for the sake of being open and for the sake of... well, I suppose it's really just my personal quirk.
If only SOMEONE had suggested a concise way of indicating all of what you said here earlier in the thread. ^_^

Along the lines of terms like "intersex", how about "mixed gender" - though that's longer so probably not as attractive.


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Posted

I got it!

Just occasionally suggest that your character's using the men's room rather than the ladies'. Problem solved without meta tags.


"If you're going through hell, keep going."
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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baarogue View Post
If only SOMEONE had suggested a concise way of indicating all of what you said here earlier in the thread. ^_^

Along the lines of terms like "intersex", how about "mixed gender" - though that's longer so probably not as attractive.
Actually, that's what I was using at first. It's a nice, attractive idea (Imagine it going next to Gender: in a stats section... though I suppose that might technically be Sex: ) - but might just be a little too ambiguous. I wasn't sure.

And while that one, Eis, might not be appropriate for every character's particular bio... Why, that isn't a bad place to start at all!


 

Posted

I think the real problem is people asuming that ERP means no other kind of RP...

I think "Trangendered" would be a good tag for the VV page... and simply put a link to it.

I don't think any LGBT would be offended by it, I'm certainly not, considering the amount of though and story you put on the character, I think the real problem will be the intolerant crowd who, regardless of what you do, will try to ruin things for you, either by trying to report you or by spamming the place with endless OOC comments over and over...

Now, regarding this topic.. I have 2 characters that fit the TG category, and one is moving towards a total change... and the journey is proving very interesting, and the only mention of it is a reference on her VV page.

The other char has it tagged openly on the profile, for one reason only... someone made very transphobic comments oocly one night and I was so pissed that I retconned the char and put the Transexual tag openly to make a point.


"What counts is not what sounds plausible, not what we would like to believe, not what one or two witnesses claim, but only what is supported by hard evidence rigorously and skeptically examined. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." - Carl Sagan

 

Posted

Regarding your original post asking how you would be perceived, or accepted, or whatever, I think that is more down to your actions and attitudes than the described physical attributes of your characters.

I'd never heard of the term futunari before I started playing this game, and I've never played such a character, but I have no problem with them on the whole. I am a guy who plays, and roleplays, multiple female characters; I have one character who is male but regularly "possesses" female bodies, and I have a concept for another character who is an amalgam of either a husband and wife, or fraternal twin brother and sister, so I consider myself pretty open minded when it comes to character concept.

Not everyone is open-minded though and when you encounter someone who isn't it's best to move on. Provoking them, or letting them provoke you is probably the worst thing you could do.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baronesa View Post
I think "Trangendered" would be a good tag for the VV page... and simply put a link to it.

I don't think any LGBT would be offended by it, I'm certainly not
It's not so much a question of offense as it is of accuracy. Transgender implies transition from one sex to the other, but Cat's characters were never biologically male to begin with, nor do they want to become male.

I honestly have yet to find a good word (other than futa and shemale, which have their own connotative problems) that accurately describes Cat's characters.


De minimis non curat Lex Luthor.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catministrator View Post
Actually, that's what I was using at first. It's a nice, attractive idea (Imagine it going next to Gender: in a stats section... though I suppose that might technically be Sex: ) - but might just be a little too ambiguous. I wasn't sure.

And while that one, Eis, might not be appropriate for every character's particular bio... Why, that isn't a bad place to start at all!
Sex and gender are two different things. You can also add orientation and expression to the list.

Here's a handy chart.

Any person can fall anywhere along the entire spectrum in all four dimensions.


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Other 50s: Plant/Thorn, Bots/Traps, DB/SR, MA/Regen, Rad/Dark - All on Virtue.

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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smersh View Post
Sex and gender are two different things. You can also add orientation and expression to the list.

Here's a handy chart.

Any person can fall anywhere along the entire spectrum in all four dimensions.
I found that picture so adorable. xD


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smersh View Post
Sex and gender are two different things. You can also add orientation and expression to the list.

Here's a handy chart.

Any person can fall anywhere along the entire spectrum in all four dimensions.
that Chart is rather awesome I may need to steal that


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deebs View Post
that Chart is rather awesome I may need to steal that
That's pretty much what I did when I saw the chart, yes.


Comrade Smersh, KGB Special Section 8 50 Inv/Fire, Fire/Rad, BS/WP, SD/SS, AR/EM
Other 50s: Plant/Thorn, Bots/Traps, DB/SR, MA/Regen, Rad/Dark - All on Virtue.

-Don't just rebel, build a better world, comrade!

 

Posted

Hmm. Tricky.

A few thoughts:

1. Unless I'm planning to ERP with you, I don't care. Since I'm pretty sure I know what my spouse is into, you're probably not my spouse, which means the question is unlikely to come up. Unless there's some reason for which, looking at you in WW, I'd immediately notice this, it may not need to be in the bio.
2. But wait! Some people get really freaked out by stuff like this, but might want to flirt with you. But if they flirted with you and then found out, it'd be upsetting. So maybe they'd want to know.
3. Anything pertaining to genitalia or other characteristics that most people don't deal with in most of the people they meet is probably going to be interpreted as an indication that you're interested in showing off or cybersexing. I mean, why else would you mention it? (Note: I can think of many other reasons to mention it. But that's how people will likely interpret it.)

I don't think any of my CoH characters have a defined sexuality at all. I mean, some are male, some are female, but if you asked me whether they were gay or not, or even had sex, I wouldn't know. The only exception is LOVELACE-1, whom I can tell you for sure about. She's a non-sapient robot who is built mostly on the chassis of a half-finished sexbot, and she would LOVE to have sex. Unfortunately (or fortunately), not only is she not anatomically correct, she's not actually programmed, so if you tried to have sex with her, she'd just act like a chatbot programmed to try to flirt with people.

Everyone else? I have no clue. I don't know whether they're sexually active, or would like to be. I'm pretty sure Burdock McCoy, the hicksie, would be all up for some snuggling with a hot girl, but I suspect that his interests would run to drinking heavily, looking at boobs, and then going out and doing stupid stuff until he woke up in the drunk tank thinking he must have had a great night of it.

So... When I see people whose character bios include information I'd only need if I were going to have sex with them, I tend to assume that they are viewing that as a primary likely mode of interaction, and that tends to make me think I don't want to interact much with them, 'cuz that's really not part of my sense of what superheroes do.

One of the issues you run into here is a narrative logic problem. Anything which is statistically abnormal is presumed to be significant in narrative. In the real world, some people are gay and some aren't, whatever. In a fictional setting, though, if someone is gay (which is statistically unusual) rather than not-gay (which is statistically common), it is presumed that this is a significant and key component of their character. Exceptions exist, but for the most part, that will be the assumption people make.

Past that... I don't think I care much either way. If I ran into you in game and at some point this information about an apparently-female character came out, I'd probably ask which pronoun you prefer and leave it at that. I don't think any of my characters would have an opinion on the issue; while bigotry is certainly a thing in the real world, it's not a thing which strikes me as fun to play. I dunno; it might be hilarious for a drunken pixie with a backwards baseball cap to follow you around asking inappropriate questions, but that's the kind of thing that's only funny if everyone involved agrees it's funny. ("So, hey, pretty lady, uhm, which bathroom do you go to? Can you pee sitting down? You get a lot of dates? You get a lot of second dates? Er, what I mean is...")


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smersh View Post
Sex and gender are two different things. You can also add orientation and expression to the list.

Here's a handy chart.

Any person can fall anywhere along the entire spectrum in all four dimensions.
First: I want my own "Gender Bread Person" now...

Second: That's quite handy!


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by seebs View Post
I dunno; it might be hilarious for a drunken pixie with a backwards baseball cap to follow you around asking inappropriate questions, but that's the kind of thing that's only funny if everyone involved agrees it's funny. ("So, hey, pretty lady, uhm, which bathroom do you go to? Can you pee sitting down? You get a lot of dates? You get a lot of second dates? Er, what I mean is...")
... I must find such a drunken pixie. This is too cute an idea to pass up!

Edit: I suppose it really does boil down to a clash of intent and perception though, doesn't it? I can do my best to clarify my intent... but as much as I'd like, I can't entirely change other's perceptions short of just crashing through them in my own way. In this case, it really does seem like the best answer would be to write as I please; then simply correct those who take it as an open invitation.


 

Posted

seebs.

What have you done.


De minimis non curat Lex Luthor.

 

Posted

Will you be the first person to make a non-objectified futa character?

Hmm.. catgirl with huge mammaries, penor and skimpy clothing.

I remain skeptical.


I would like to issue a plea on behalf of Paragon's diminutive protectors, please watch where you step. We're four feet tall in a six foot tall world, we've been cast adrift in a sea of butts. -Pillbug

 

Posted

You forgot the Cherub Wings, Mags.

(I just roll with then insanity these days, but I can totally see where Mags is coming from, just for the record.)


"If you're going through hell, keep going."
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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magpie_Mouse View Post
Will you be the first person to make a non-objectified futa character?

Hmm.. catgirl with huge mammaries, penor and skimpy clothing.

I remain skeptical.
Hah. I did admit that she wasn't the best of examples - and precisely for that reason. Still; a fun idea is difficult to resist - and so, for better or worse, she's become my first such character in CoX.

But, really, I said nothing about appearances - it's more in the intent and purpose. If I were setting out to make the first completely non-objectified Futa... I'd be very late to the game, as I'm sure others have gotten there well before I even started writing on the subject.

... Come to think of it, I suppose that's really the essence in all this: thin, blurred lines. If someone decides it's impossible to take Eri - or any similar character - seriously because of how she looks... I can't exactly fault them for that. The best I could do is let actions speak for themselves.


 

Posted

First I need to note that I had a great deal of difficulty working through this thread, because of the connotations behind the whole 'futa' thing. Still, the fact that this was approached with a genuine concern for what was most appropriate for everyone involved let me press ahead.

I think one of the more important things got mentioned sort of in passing in one of Seebs' adorably opaque collection of thoughts:


Quote:
Originally Posted by seebs View Post
One of the issues you run into here is a narrative logic problem. Anything which is statistically abnormal is presumed to be significant in narrative. In the real world, some people are gay and some aren't, whatever. In a fictional setting, though, if someone is gay (which is statistically unusual) rather than not-gay (which is statistically common), it is presumed that this is a significant and key component of their character. Exceptions exist, but for the most part, that will be the assumption people make.
This is significant. If you bring attention to something that is sufficiently 'abnormal', then it becomes A Central Facet. You risk a lot of RP twisting away from your character and her relationships with other characters, into 'Well, obviously it's about the wang.'

Even for the open minded, if you put something in the bio, that's going to draw attention to it, and that will get people thinking about it as a core focus for the character concept.

I've actually counseled a lot of newer RPers against playing things like transgendered or even intersexed (using the RL definition) characters simply because when you get caught up in details like this, they can overshadow the more important emotional elements of the character. You get stuck on the physical bits, and start missing the person that really matters. Once they're more used to tending to the simpler (but often more important) things, then playing characters with more complicated issues is more reasonable.

But even experienced RPers have trouble with sorting these things out when they're encountering someone else's character. It's the first impression problem, in another form: The initial framework someone is going to build of your character is going to come from your costume, your bio, and whatever you say/emote while they're reading your bio.

Be really sure anything they see in there is really something you want them using as a framework for deciding who your character is, because even if you get the chance to demonstrate your character's depth, that initial framework is going to be there, and influence how they interpret things.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Softcapping an Invuln is fantastic. Softcapping a Willpower is amazing. Softcapping SR is kissing your sister.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Void_Huntress View Post
First I need to note that I had a great deal of difficulty working through this thread, because of the connotations behind the whole 'futa' thing. Still, the fact that this was approached with a genuine concern for what was most appropriate for everyone involved let me press ahead.

I think one of the more important things got mentioned sort of in passing in one of Seebs' adorably opaque collection of thoughts:




This is significant. If you bring attention to something that is sufficiently 'abnormal', then it becomes A Central Facet. You risk a lot of RP twisting away from your character and her relationships with other characters, into 'Well, obviously it's about the wang.'

Even for the open minded, if you put something in the bio, that's going to draw attention to it, and that will get people thinking about it as a core focus for the character concept.

I've actually counseled a lot of newer RPers against playing things like transgendered or even intersexed (using the RL definition) characters simply because when you get caught up in details like this, they can overshadow the more important emotional elements of the character. You get stuck on the physical bits, and start missing the person that really matters. Once they're more used to tending to the simpler (but often more important) things, then playing characters with more complicated issues is more reasonable.

But even experienced RPers have trouble with sorting these things out when they're encountering someone else's character. It's the first impression problem, in another form: The initial framework someone is going to build of your character is going to come from your costume, your bio, and whatever you say/emote while they're reading your bio.

Be really sure anything they see in there is really something you want them using as a framework for deciding who your character is, because even if you get the chance to demonstrate your character's depth, that initial framework is going to be there, and influence how they interpret things.
Just to add a touch of humor, here...

"Physical bits" may be the most relevant part of that entire post. :P


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Void_Huntress View Post
Stuff.
Pretty much this. It's hard to do well, and right, while trying to also go 'romance rp' (which is just the apologist's way of justifying ERP, IMO. But I digress.) without running into the creepy fetishists that dominate those genres of RP.


I would like to issue a plea on behalf of Paragon's diminutive protectors, please watch where you step. We're four feet tall in a six foot tall world, we've been cast adrift in a sea of butts. -Pillbug

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Void_Huntress View Post
First I need to note that I had a great deal of difficulty working through this thread, because of the connotations behind the whole 'futa' thing. Still, the fact that this was approached with a genuine concern for what was most appropriate for everyone involved let me press ahead.

I think one of the more important things got mentioned sort of in passing in one of Seebs' adorably opaque collection of thoughts:




This is significant. If you bring attention to something that is sufficiently 'abnormal', then it becomes A Central Facet. You risk a lot of RP twisting away from your character and her relationships with other characters, into 'Well, obviously it's about the wang.'

Even for the open minded, if you put something in the bio, that's going to draw attention to it, and that will get people thinking about it as a core focus for the character concept.

I've actually counseled a lot of newer RPers against playing things like transgendered or even intersexed (using the RL definition) characters simply because when you get caught up in details like this, they can overshadow the more important emotional elements of the character. You get stuck on the physical bits, and start missing the person that really matters. Once they're more used to tending to the simpler (but often more important) things, then playing characters with more complicated issues is more reasonable.

But even experienced RPers have trouble with sorting these things out when they're encountering someone else's character. It's the first impression problem, in another form: The initial framework someone is going to build of your character is going to come from your costume, your bio, and whatever you say/emote while they're reading your bio.

Be really sure anything they see in there is really something you want them using as a framework for deciding who your character is, because even if you get the chance to demonstrate your character's depth, that initial framework is going to be there, and influence how they interpret things.
Indeed it does! But I learned that many, many years ago when this whole fascination started. And yet... even knowing that, there's just something deeply disturbing to me about 'hiding' anything about that initial framework. Interpretations be damned, it just doesn't sit right to set about creating a character of any kind - and then hiding it because of what people might think. It's simply a matter of finding a slightly better approach, I think.

But, really, regardless how that... This is the first genuine opportunity I've ever had to see what others think on an open level like this. That alone is worth so much - and I especially appreciate your thoughts despite the subject being difficult for you.

Edit: As far as 'Romance = an excuse for eRP'... That's another awful set of of perceptions that deserves it's own discussion, I think. But that's what everything comes back to, isn't it? For every one person trying to do something honest, there are a dozen more enforcing the stereotype. Even those who work along a different path can't help but fall into the same situations, at times. No matter how much one discusses it; one can't change the facts. Even if one isn't following a certain set of assumptions themselves... those assumptions are still being validated somewhere.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magpie_Mouse View Post
'romance rp' (which is just the apologist's way of justifying ERP, IMO. But I digress.)
...and the horse you came in on.

Don't you freezing rain on my innocent romance RP.


"If you're going through hell, keep going."
Winston Churchill

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by seebs View Post
I dunno; it might be hilarious for a drunken pixie with a backwards baseball cap to follow you around asking inappropriate questions, but that's the kind of thing that's only funny if everyone involved agrees it's funny. ("So, hey, pretty lady, uhm, which bathroom do you go to? Can you pee sitting down? You get a lot of dates? You get a lot of second dates? Er, what I mean is...")
Just to quote this a second time... because I really don't know how I missed the chance to clarify this the first round: This is the precisely the kind of RP I'd like to have for characters like Eri. Those little life-moments that help define whom a personality truly is; from the funny to the uncomfortable - the distraught to the resolute - the flights of fancy to the serious... It's these kinds of things, in particular, that I most like to envision when I sit down to write my intersexed characters. Character development. That, I think, is the real core of it. True enough, such things could handily be done regardless of one's sex; but for me, at least, it's those special moments that arise when you don't neatly fall into either that thrill me the most.