Looking for Captains for The New Freedom PvP League
By
Alpha_Zulu,
Posted on: 2010-12-28 21:02 in Everything about PvP
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Try again? What's the worst that can happen? The league begins to deteriorate?|
Originally Posted by Reiraku
History has shown that to not work out so well. Quite a few events have been shut down due to test server down time, even with full awareness of the red names in charge (more than once, an event even had a stickied thread by a community mod for over a month and the server was brought down without warning). It didn't matter if it was run by the PvPEC, Test Ladder, etc.
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How's that champion league going for ya.....
The real issue is that new people will not download test. People will not watch the matches like they will on freedom which will create new pvpers. In hopes of giving one last breath to a dying pvp it is best to have it on freedom and just deal with the issues we have with that instead of the issues of less pvpers. Yes I know the argument that we can have more people from other servers but it just does not work out. Lets focus on getting this going and if we end the league with 6 full teams maybe the next one we go to test.
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Um yeah, you do know that VEATs can see stalkers plain as day up to 100ft especially with new inherent fitness freeing up pool selections, if a team was going to bring 8 stalks you probably should bring 1-2 veats just in case. I think that they weren't worried as much with ties as they were 8 stalkers all spiking targets with shraks and calling it a day. |
Originally Posted by Psyrene
Bad, bad, bad, idea.
The only thing I would want limited would be stalkers to 2 or 3, just so a team cant decide they are gonna run all stalkers to attempt to force a 0-0 match, the rest the captains should just be able to figure out what they will be able to run based on the people they get in the draft and what toons said people say they have available to play. |
Limitations were set in place either because of perceived OPness (shraks) or because they were actually broken (mace, LR, etc...). I either say make the sensible limitations across the board to promote variety or **** it no limits at all.
Problem with that LM is if they use the line up submission - you won't have a way of running 8 veats unless you submit it hoping they are bringing 8 - and if they bring a jump team - you could be screwed.
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Originally Posted by Daknah
Difference is we actually got benefit out of our secondary...
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I think they did too, didn't they run thugs/storms and pick lab map?
You're my own personal stalker eh?
I also am a fan of the line-up submission, it's kind of a guessing game on whether the other team will have 2 emps and either 6 psi/ems or they go wtih 4 and a hodge-podge of other things.
Also, 1 veat should be able to hassle 2 stalkers so they could use 4 of those and have room for 4 KM/regins.......
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Not nearly as easy as you make it out to be. Some of the better stalkers can occupy a VEAT for an entire match. A coordinated pair of good stalkers can kill a VEAT pretty easily if its not tricked out.
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Originally Posted by Championess
Also, 1 veat should be able to hassle 2 stalkers
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The idea in the Freedom D8/D6 league was to try and run effective "storm" teams again...because dUmb's Test team was known for running pretty good storm teams pre-i13. We didn't have a very good Jump team, and it didn't look like we'd improve it enough to really be competitive against U2BG or SMD.|
Originally Posted by B_Witched
I think they did too, didn't they run thugs/storms and pick lab map?
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After keeping around a few ideas, and for nostalgia's and curiosity's sake, Slax and Lib (and then Pixel, I believe) rolled Thugs/Storms (when carnie missions were still up) to see how effective those toons would be at disruption. We also ended up with Doyler on our team, who happened to have a storm corr, so we threw that in there. We put in a few blasters and a couple of emps, and it worked well enough for us to say we had a storm team that could win.
I can't even remember if we used our Thugs/Pain MM line-up during that league-I think Slax (not sure who else) had one going before that league ended. We had a couple of other ideas at the time that we were going to try out on the new Test ladder, but that fell apart before it really got started again.
TLDR: dUmb knew our "storm" line-up wasn't the ideal disruption line-up, but we worked with what we had gotten ready at the time.
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Team limitations only serve to create a slightly altered optimal team make up. Then everyone runs that. It's not going to breed the new teams everywhere omg what is that environment some people think.|
Originally Posted by Championess
You're my own personal stalker eh?
I also am a fan of the line-up submission, it's kind of a guessing game on whether the other team will have 2 emps and either 6 psi/ems or they go wtih 4 and a hodge-podge of other things. Also, 1 veat should be able to hassle 2 stalkers so they could use 4 of those and have room for 4 KM/regins....... |
2-3 stalker limitation and call it a day.
"His Imperial Majesty's Minister of Restraints and Leather" -LHF
Two naughty acronym teams / Ascension / Convenient / Artic and the Chillz / Fap / Other teams I can't remember (sorry.. mind is goin')
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It was fun enough. Didn't you have fun on your team?
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Originally Posted by Tokyo
Try again? What's the worst that can happen? The league begins to deteriorate?
How's that champion league going for ya..... |
"His Imperial Majesty's Minister of Restraints and Leather" -LHF
Two naughty acronym teams / Ascension / Convenient / Artic and the Chillz / Fap / Other teams I can't remember (sorry.. mind is goin')
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KM/regins are pretty much worthless in a team setting btw even with CS being broken. Not bad for 1v1 toons but for teams they are not worth it, would rather have another blaster on the team than one of them. If that is the only thing that someone has to play then fine let em sign up but running a team with 3-4 as you say, that team would get rolled.
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Originally Posted by Championess
they could use 4 of those and have room for 4 KM/regins.......
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OLD SCHOOL PvP
Rad/Psi,Psi/Em,Fire/Em,Cld/Sonic,FF/Sonic,Grav/Ta,Storm/Psi,Sp/WP,Fire/Psi,Sonic/Pain
RIP:Southern Comfort PvP,PE PvP,INTEGRITY PvP,After School Special PvP Test SG's,TPvPL Season1+2 Runner ups
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i meant the last test league Psoma - where you beat soco the first round of the matches using two thugs storms on lab map - it was a pretty effective use of thugs and storm - a billion targets - lag -res with the FR, - to hit with the hurricane..( i think u used two - I cannot remember if we went 6v6 or 8v8).
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Originally Posted by Psoma
The idea in the Freedom D8/D6 league was to try and run effective "storm" teams again...because dUmb's Test team was known for running pretty good storm teams pre-i13. We didn't have a very good Jump team, and it didn't look like we'd improve it enough to really be competitive against U2BG or SMD.
After keeping around a few ideas, and for nostalgia's and curiosity's sake, Slax and Lib (and then Pixel, I believe) rolled Thugs/Storms (when carnie missions were still up) to see how effective those toons would be at disruption. We also ended up with Doyler on our team, who happened to have a storm corr, so we threw that in there. We put in a few blasters and a couple of emps, and it worked well enough for us to say we had a storm team that could win. I can't even remember if we used our Thugs/Pain MM line-up during that league-I think Slax (not sure who else) had one going before that league ended. We had a couple of other ideas at the time that we were going to try out on the new Test ladder, but that fell apart before it really got started again. TLDR: dUmb knew our "storm" line-up wasn't the ideal disruption line-up, but we worked with what we had gotten ready at the time. |
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The point being made was that there really isn't anything to lose. You might actually gain league members if there were a test league as it is accessable to everyone. |
Originally Posted by SmokeSignal
It was fun enough. Didn't you have fun on your team?
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I'm starting to feel the crux of the argument against trying another test league isn't so much inconvenience on the part of coordinators but the fear that less seasoned veterans would be able to compete on equal footing as far as builds are concerned.
As it stands the league is a joke and will continue to be a joke except amongst the the kids participating in the circle jerk.
If the league is on test it becomes open to everyone, hardcore and casual pvper alike.
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Think it was 8 v 8.|
Originally Posted by B_Witched
i meant the last test league Psoma - where you beat soco the first round of the matches using two thugs storms on lab map - it was a pretty effective use of thugs and storm - a billion targets - lag -res with the FR, - to hit with the hurricane..( i think u used two - I cannot remember if we went 6v6 or 8v8).
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Doyler (and Trez I think) was on Stalker, we had Slax, Pixel and Lib on Storm me and Siolffir (or was it someone else...) on Emp and a Blaster. That adds up to 9, we might not have run a Blaster. Kinda foggy on it now, but the Stalkers scored a kill on the VEAT and I got a lucky Blind kill and we won 2-1 or 3-2 on that map or something ridiculous, which was incredibly close as I ran out of greens at the :15 mark with Phase already used, heh.
dUmb also used that Storm team on Eden, iirc, turtling on one of the pathways. I think Pixel might have died though...
Anyways, to this league:
Basically 2-3 Stalker limit, usual map picks/limits.
For ties, caps will have to discuss but I'd prefer to avoid replaying ties more than once or twice...would hate to have tie, tie, tie, tie...hour later still trying to resolve a draw. One way to get around this would be to keep same line-ups from the draw, someone should get defeated at some point.
Basically, one tie replay would be fine...but replay after replay would get annoying.
Questions about the game, either side? /t @Neuronia or @Neuronium, with your queries!
168760: A Death in the Gish. 3 missions, 1-14. Easy to solo.
Infinity Villains
Champion, Pinnacle, Virtue Heroes
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New people? What SH* are you smoking? Cause I want some....|
Originally Posted by Daknah
The real issue is that new people will not download test. People will not watch the matches like they will on freedom which will create new pvpers. In hopes of giving one last breath to a dying pvp it is best to have it on freedom and just deal with the issues we have with that instead of the issues of less pvpers. Yes I know the argument that we can have more people from other servers but it just does not work out. Lets focus on getting this going and if we end the league with 6 full teams maybe the next one we go to test.
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We are Hemmoraging players because the devs cut their community organizers.
You aren't going to lead by example by having a league on freedom. Especially when most gamers have no interest in competitive pvp.
The builds required to be competitive in PvP are ridiculously expensive for most players. I'm a PvEr and RPer that has the "capability" of making competitive pvp builds because I am capable of making the billions needed to make them. I am the exception.
It isn't reasonable to expect people who would like to participate in competitive pvp to shell out the billions it takes to make a competitive build.
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We've had this argument many times before.|
Originally Posted by Tokyo
The point being made was that there really isn't anything to lose. You might actually gain league members if there were a test league as it is accessable to everyone.
I'm starting to feel the crux of the argument against trying another test league isn't so much inconvenience on the part of coordinators but the fear that less seasoned veterans would be able to compete on equal footing as far as builds are concerned. As it stands the league is a joke and will continue to be a joke except amongst the the kids participating in the circle jerk. If the league is on test it becomes open to everyone, hardcore and casual pvper alike. |
Even when Test was open to everyone, you had 6-8 teams in the Hero Ladder, about same amount on the vill ladder in its prime. But the people that showed up consistently were the same group of hardcores...like Victory Reborn, dUmb, Integrity, Whirligig, JAL, Velocity, Old School Legends, until teams began fragmenting and such.
A lot of the new players just didn't want to change their builds or put in the time. I remember on Healing Hank's team, we had one person with a Fire/Kin and we were like...."Wanna roll X, or maybe we can Acco out your fire/kin and help you out?" and they ragequit out, never heard from again.
Whether the League is on test, Freedom, wherever...you'll have the people who are hardcore showing up week in and week out. Some groups will try it, not like it and drop out. Others will just show up and play for the ***** and giggles. We had people genuinely focusing on weaning in new players on Test...like Hank's team was just for newbies, and it still ended up being mostly Hank, Robo, Shad and a few others that were from other Test teams.
Sad to say, but the IO curve and learning curve and time commitment may be too much for the average video gamer to put in. What we have is what we have, plus any one else who catches the bug.
Questions about the game, either side? /t @Neuronia or @Neuronium, with your queries!
168760: A Death in the Gish. 3 missions, 1-14. Easy to solo.
Infinity Villains
Champion, Pinnacle, Virtue Heroes
I think the replay tie rules is to combat people bringing draw teams. While a valid strategy in a points situation - where you get x points for a tie - in a best two out of three - points awarded for winner of that - it makes it moot to try. Just my 2 pennies.
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Except that a league on Test cuts out the more casual crowd that isn't interested going off the live servers, downloading test, copying characters over, etc. I don't have a problem with it. I miss playing on Test all the time. But the fact is, we get more people participating on the average when it's on Live with a draft. The Champion league got scarce after the halfway point, but that's why Dex is suggesting a league half as long. I think it's a great idea and surely worth a try.|
Originally Posted by Tokyo
The point being made was that there really isn't anything to lose. You might actually gain league members if there were a test league as it is accessable to everyone.
I'm starting to feel the crux of the argument against trying another test league isn't so much inconvenience on the part of coordinators but the fear that less seasoned veterans would be able to compete on equal footing as far as builds are concerned. As it stands the league is a joke and will continue to be a joke except amongst the the kids participating in the circle jerk. If the league is on test it becomes open to everyone, hardcore and casual pvper alike. |
Instead of ******** constantly about this being a joke and that being a joke, why don't you either sign up and play or sit down and shut up? We've had some very entertaining 6v6-8v8 fights over the last couple of months.
I'd say to do a couple more Live leagues to pull in those that are very new or just starting out, then do a Test league. After that you could alternate between Test and Live easy enough to pull in more people on a constant basis.
"His Imperial Majesty's Minister of Restraints and Leather" -LHF
Two naughty acronym teams / Ascension / Convenient / Artic and the Chillz / Fap / Other teams I can't remember (sorry.. mind is goin')
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Our team on Champion spent billions helping the newer players IO their builds. Most of the veteran players I know do this for their teammates. And you don't have to have a 13-20 billion infl build to make a decent arena toon. It's nice.. but not necessary.
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Originally Posted by Tokyo
It isn't reasonable to expect people who would like to participate in competitive pvp to shell out the billions it takes to make a competitive build.
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"His Imperial Majesty's Minister of Restraints and Leather" -LHF
Two naughty acronym teams / Ascension / Convenient / Artic and the Chillz / Fap / Other teams I can't remember (sorry.. mind is goin')
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As long as the point of starting a freedom league is attempting to get enough interest to form a new test league...|
Originally Posted by SmokeSignal
Except that a league on Test cuts out the more casual crowd that isn't interested going off the live servers, downloading test, copying characters over, etc. I don't have a problem with it. I miss playing on Test all the time. But the fact is, we get more people participating on the average when it's on Live with a draft. The Champion league got scarce after the halfway point, but that's why Dex is suggesting a league half as long. I think it's a great idea and surely worth a try.
Instead of ******** constantly about this being a joke and that being a joke, why don't you either sign up and play or sit down and shut up? We've had some very entertaining 6v6-8v8 fights over the last couple of months. I'd say to do a couple more Live leagues to pull in those that are very new or just starting out, then do a Test league. After that you could alternate between Test and Live easy enough to pull in more people on a constant basis. |
Wish you the best of luck on the freedom league then.
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Lol, Regens in large team matches. This isn't RV. You need to understand that it's a bit different in the Arena. ^_~|
Originally Posted by Championess
Also, 1 veat should be able to hassle 2 stalkers so they could use 4 of those and have room for 4 KM/regins.......
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Originally Posted by SmokeSignal
Team limitations only serve to create a slightly altered optimal team make up. Then everyone runs that. It's not going to breed the new teams everywhere omg what is that environment some people think.
2-3 stalker limitation and call it a day. |
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Originally Posted by Tokyo
New people? What SH* are you smoking? Cause I want some....
It isn't reasonable to expect people who would like to participate in competitive pvp to shell out the billions it takes to make a competitive build. |
Either way, even with those resources available, you've proven that it can just as easily be irrelevant. You're bad, but unfortunately, you can't fix stupid; in this game, the two are the same. =)
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Originally Posted by Tokyo
As long as the point of starting a freedom league is attempting to get enough interest to form a new test league...
Wish you the best of luck on the freedom league then. |
Look, you seem overly interested in this issue for someone who has nothing to do with it. Stop clogging the thread with your fatness.
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So, I'm showing interest because I have no interest... complain more. It's about all you CAN contribute to this thread or keep killing league, whichever comes more natural. |
Originally Posted by Vexington
it's own purpose.
Look, you seem overly interested in this issue for someone who has nothing to do with it. Stop clogging the thread with your fatness. |
Again, wish you guys the best of luck.
Yes tokyo, the champion league started falling apart around the halfway mark when there were only 2 teams left in the running for 1st, and only one other that still showe up. But we still got in tons of fun 8v8s, many new players joined and had a great time. I believe 5 of the players on my original 12 man roster were complete noobs at the start, and all became decent to very solid. And don't even start complaining about builds lol. You can make a legitimate psi/em for under a billion. Plus, every team is going to have players who can loan or donate IOs to the newer guys.
"I'm starting to feel the crux of the argument against trying another test league isn't so much inconvenience on the part of coordinators but the fear that less seasoned veterans would be able to compete on equal footing as far as builds are concerned."
-Lmao
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Dont get smart with him, who you?
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Originally Posted by Tokyo
So, I'm showing interest because I have no interest... complain more. It's about all you CAN contribute to this thread or keep killing league, whichever comes more natural.
Again, wish you guys the best of luck. |
History has shown that to not work out so well. Quite a few events have been shut down due to test server down time, even with full awareness of the red names in charge (more than once, an event even had a stickied thread by a community mod for over a month and the server was brought down without warning). It didn't matter if it was run by the PvPEC, Test Ladder, etc.
"the reason there are so many sarcastic pvpers is we already had a better version of pvp taken away from us to appease bad players. Back then we chuckled at how bad players came here and whined. If we knew that was the actual voice devs would listen to instead of informed, educated players we probably would have been bigger dicks back then." -ConFlict