Change on User Agreement placing with I20 (maybe sooner?)


Acemace

 

Posted

For the past... however long the game has been around, the NCSoft User Agreement has been located in the CoH patcher:



As of right now the version of the game loaded to the Beta server no longer allows bypassing the User Agreement by launching the game client directly. The user-agreement must be accepted after signing in, but before choosing a server:



Yes, this can also be tested even if you don't actually have beta server access. There's just an error message telling you to go someplace else:



I don't know if this move to the User Agreement means that NCSoft and Paragon Studios are just covering up a loophole for purely legal reasons, or if it might signify other changes with I20... such as the perhaps long-awaited KHTML/Webkit rewrite of the Patcher.


 

Posted

I'm still probably going to be the only one who knows what's different in the I20 User Agreement from the current one. (-:


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyPerfect View Post
I'm still probably going to be the only one who knows what's different in the I20 User Agreement from the current one. (-:
The User Agreement itself hasn't changed. It's the same one that's listed here: http://www.ncsoft.com/en/legal/user-agreements/

It's just now players HAVE to accept the user-agreement and cannot bypass it.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyPerfect View Post
I'm still probably going to be the only one who knows what's different in the I20 User Agreement from the current one. (-:
Holy gosh, I love your avatar.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by je_saist View Post
The User Agreement itself hasn't changed. It's the same one that's listed here: http://www.ncsoft.com/en/legal/user-agreements/

It's just now players HAVE to accept the user-agreement and cannot bypass it.
So your original post suggesting they're covering a loophole is moot, right? Will this be a significant issue for you? Can you find yourself not wanting to agree to the EULA, a document you agree to upon logging in?


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Posted

Will this change still allow us to bypass the Updater when needed? When being something like I'm on the last mission of a TF and I don't want to verify files right now.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by warden_de_dios View Post
Will this change still allow us to bypass the Updater when needed? When being something like I'm on the last mission of a TF and I don't want to verify files right now.
Yes


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Posted

It seems like it might be an effort to cover up the loophole that bypassing the launcher allows. By not using the launcher, you are able to avoid accepting the agreement. I am not sure how well that would work as some sort of legal defense for violating those terms, but maybe this is a response to someone (RMT, for example?) wriggling out of something on that basis.

Other than it being vaguely ugly and slightly time consuming to present it there, it doesn't bother me. (I bypass the launcher all the time. It's faster for me to do so.)


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by UberGuy View Post
It seems like it might be an effort to cover up the loophole that bypassing the launcher allows. By not using the launcher, you are able to avoid accepting the agreement. I am not sure how well that would work as some sort of legal defense for violating those terms, but maybe this is a response to someone (RMT, for example?) wriggling out of something on that basis.

Other than it being vaguely ugly and slightly time consuming to present it there, it doesn't bother me. (I bypass the launcher all the time. It's faster for me to do so.)
Doubt it would be much of one. The chances of someone not clicking "I Agree" even once for the initial setup (and subsequent patches) is slim.

Probably be as effective as "But I never saw the FBI warning! I was in the bathroom when it popped up!"


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Posted

Bypassing the EULA only allows you to skip confirming that you agree, you are still bound by the EULA by playing the game as stated in section 1a.

Quote:
Your use of the Game(s) constitutes your agreement to all such terms and conditions and your agreement to comply with the Rules of Conduct.


 

Posted

Seems annoying and unnecessary.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clebstein View Post
Seems annoying and unnecessary.
In a perfect world it is annoying and unnecessary. But there was probably one or two cases, out of all the reasonable people who play this game, where for some reason this scenario played out in such a way which caused the Devs to decide this change was necessary. It's basically the MMO equivalent of the one idiot tampering with a box of Tylenol so now we all have to put up with those annoying foil seals on our pill bottles.


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Posted

Seems like kind of an eyesore. Maybe that's only up there for the Pre-Beta (would they be Alpha then?) folks and when I-20 gets a little more public, it'll be back to normal? Plus, keep in mind, I-20 is miles off (assumedly.) They could change something in the coming weeks/months to make it a little less... bleh


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Burning_Brawler_NA View Post
Seems like kind of an eyesore. Maybe that's only up there for the Pre-Beta (would they be Alpha then?) folks and when I-20 gets a little more public, it'll be back to normal? Plus, keep in mind, I-20 is miles off (assumedly.) They could change something in the coming weeks/months to make it a little less... bleh
nope.

This setup is how the User Agreement is configured in in NCSoft's other games, and this is actually a second version of the user-agreement to go into the beta server that I've seen. Shortly after the beta server was locked following I19's release a version of this had the User Agreement spread across the entire screen, and the accept / decline buttons across the bottom of the display.

My suspicion is that that this "new" version is likely the final or semi-final design that NCSoft and Paragon Studios agreed too; hence me murmuring the possibility that we'll see this particular change propagated to the live server independent of Issue 20's release.

Also, to counter the argument that this is somehow just for pre-beta / alpha users... again. No. It contains no verbiage exclusive to beta-testers, pre-alpha's, or anybody else. It is the same exact user-agreement that is currently displayed in the CoH patcher and on NCSoft's webpage: http://www.ncsoft.com/en/legal/user-agreements/


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Novapulse View Post
Bypassing the EULA only allows you to skip confirming that you agree, you are still bound by the EULA by playing the game as stated in section 1a.
Blanket rules like that have been successfully challenged. Of course, if I recall correctly, even on-sign-on rules have been successfully challenged, but of the two, the catch-all version is likely on weaker grounds.


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Posted

It could jsut be something dealing specifically with i20 on test, and not any change that's coming.

After all, i20 needed a signed NDA to get into it.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by je_saist View Post
For the past... however long the game has been around, the NCSoft User Agreement has been located in the CoH patcher:



As of right now the version of the game loaded to the Beta server no longer allows bypassing the User Agreement by launching the game client directly. The user-agreement must be accepted after signing in, but before choosing a server:



Yes, this can also be tested even if you don't actually have beta server access. There's just an error message telling you to go someplace else:



I don't know if this move to the User Agreement means that NCSoft and Paragon Studios are just covering up a loophole for purely legal reasons, or if it might signify other changes with I20... such as the perhaps long-awaited KHTML/Webkit rewrite of the Patcher.
Iiiinteresting.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandX View Post
It could jsut be something dealing specifically with i20 on test, and not any change that's coming.

After all, i20 needed a signed NDA to get into it.
again. no.

If it was only in place for when the server is unlocked for beta testers (and who knows how long that's going to take), then there wouldn't have been two different versions of the user agreement posted to the beta server. That this second version is cleaned up compared to the first version, and no longer hides the CoH splash logo, indicates that somebody spent some time to try to get the user agreement to look nice, something that wouldn't be required if this was only for the Beta Server alone.

Also: again, the text of the agreement is the exact same text that is located in the current patcher and is located on the NCSoft website: http://www.ncsoft.com/en/legal/user-agreements/

There is no text that refers to any pre-alpha testers, beta-testers, developers friends and family, or anybody else. It IS the NCSoft User Agreement.

Also: again, this is what NCSoft's other games already are doing, putting the user-agreement inside the client itself.

Now, if a red-name steps in here and says that no, this change isn't coming to the live servers, and that yes, somebody in UI development sat there and reworked the user-agreement from the original version tossed up after the I19 lock-down just for people who will be playing on the beta server when it unlocks for I20? Then hey, I'll happily say that I was wrong.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by UberGuy View Post
It seems like it might be an effort to cover up the loophole that bypassing the launcher allows. By not using the launcher, you are able to avoid accepting the agreement. I am not sure how well that would work as some sort of legal defense for violating those terms, but maybe this is a response to someone (RMT, for example?) wriggling out of something on that basis.
Actually, I suspect it's resolving a technical issue. Right now, the EULA in the updater is downloaded from the CoH website, so if the website is down, the updater doesn't show you the license. By putting the license into the client, they make sure you see it every time.

By putting it in the client, they can also tie acceptance to your account, so they can show you the license only if it's changed since the last time you accepted it. I don't know if they're doing this or not.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by je_saist View Post
The User Agreement itself hasn't changed. It's the same one that's listed here: http://www.ncsoft.com/en/legal/user-agreements/

It's just now players HAVE to accept the user-agreement and cannot bypass it.
It is, however, different from the one that we actually see on the updater, even on the Beta server before we get to the one on the login screen. For whatever reason, they've been sitting on the May, 2010 version for months now, and have us still reading the June, 2009 version. As far as I can tell with a cursory glance, the main difference is that this version mentions City of Heroes: Going Rogue right up front, while our current one in the updater does not.

I wouldn't be surprised if they standardized the user agreement placement with other NCSoft games in the near future, as you suspect that they will do, though.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katie V View Post
Actually, I suspect it's resolving a technical issue. Right now, the EULA in the updater is downloaded from the CoH website, so if the website is down, the updater doesn't show you the license. By putting the license into the client, they make sure you see it every time.
Seems like a good point.


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Posted

I think the lack of news about future content is starting to get people antsy and desperate to present new info.

Are we gonna talk about a font change next?


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