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They are two different types of beasts, Kinetics is a good offensive (buff) set, but provides little in the way of survivability compared to Empathy
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Originally Posted by docbuzzard
I can't agree with that. While it is a good buff set, I think it lacks in the ability to provide its full spread to a whole team. I'd take kinetics over it simply because you can keep a whole team speed boosted and at the damage cap quite easily.
On a small team, though, empathy is pretty hard to beat. |
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My standard is having very little downtime. Deaths do cause downtime, but Vengeance can more than make up for it while Resurrection gets the person back up on his feet in a very short time. You'd be surprised how big of a confidence boost(and a performance boost resulting) a PB'd Vengeance can give to a damage dealer.
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Originally Posted by Sailboat
Depends on your standard of performance, I guess. If "no deaths" is your standard for best buffer, Vengeance entirely useless.
 Certainly the "hardcore" supergroup I occasionally run with has no use for it. |
Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
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Originally Posted by Sailboat
Depends on your standard of performance, I guess. If "no deaths" is your standard for best buffer, Vengeance entirely useless.
Certainly the "hardcore" supergroup I occasionally run with has no use for it. |
I assume you're referring to "hardcore" as in the hardcore mode from Diablo 2, or deletion on death. I can see how it adds a degree of entertainment for some folks (turning a normal tough spot into a real HS! moment), but it led me to play over-cautiously and not enjoy myself as much.
In fact, when I emp if the situation gets hairy and I'm barely keeping folks standing I'll let someone fall, knowing that in a few moments their death will allow the whole team to hit harder, hit more often, and avoid more damage. On top of that Resurrect will put the fall guy back on their feet with full health and endurance.
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Originally Posted by ShadowRex_NA
So I've been playing a low level scrapper recently, which has been a blast. I love the kinetic melee power set animations, and have been teaming with two defenders, a force field bubbler and a sonic bubbler. Both of which, when combined, make me just about invincible.
My question is, which AT is able to provide this kind of protection best and also provide another team oriented role as well? Some things I've been throwing around in my head that I may be interested in: Sonic/Electric Defender Force Field/Electric Defender Electric/Force Field Corrupter Electric/Force Field Controller I know Cold has two shields and is also a pretty decent debuff set, but not sure what I would want to combine it with |
Best "protection" also means controlling them so they are not attacking you as much. :P
If you are fighting CoT, the best protection you can ever have is to hold/stun/confuse the Lieut Ghosts so their Chill of Nights don't turn your melee into useless.
But to answer your question, if my melee is defense oriented and it's already high enough, then I would want to look for resistance-based buffs (which is not many). If I am resistance-based melee like Electricity Armor, then I would want Force Field or Cold Domination.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
One of the easiest ITFs I did was with 5 dmg dealers, a sonic/sonic, a storm defender, and my FF/psy. The storm defender said he wasn't a healer, but he was nice enough to top off my green bar when it got low. I knew what he meant; he didn't want to babysit 7 players with O2 boost. With layered sonic and forcefield buffs, he didn't have to. The storm and sonic debuffs were plenty to get the job done.
Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.
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I prefer sets which help both on offense and defense. Kinetics, admittedly is weaker on the defensive part, but it has an excellent AOE heal, a damage debuff, and is hard to beat on offense. |
Originally Posted by Silverado
They are two different types of beasts, Kinetics is a good offensive (buff) set, but provides little in the way of survivability compared to Empathy
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Personally, I tend to prefer sets which debuff and buff. For example, I'd definitely take a cold over an emp.
Too many alts to list.
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Fortitude: +31.25% Damage, +18.75% ToHit(enhanceable)|
Originally Posted by docbuzzard
I prefer sets which help both on offense and defense. Kinetics, admittedly is weaker on the defensive part, but it has an excellent AOE heal, a damage debuff, and is hard to beat on offense.
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Adrenalin Boost: +100% Recharge, +800% Recovery(Enough to bypass a nuke crash with a single EndMod IO).
Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
The biggest outlier of them all is Sonic Blast on Defenders.
It provides more -Resistance debuffs than any primary (even Sonic Resonance) against a single hard target. And its not bad against groups - Howl provides -20% Res debuff as part of the attack.
I highly recommend FF/Sonic as a combination of defensive buffs and offensive debuffs.
Sonic/Sonic is the more aggressive version of that - less protective but face-melting amounts of -Resistance.
It's me. I am the best buffer.
Sorry yalls, but thermal is the best overall buff set.
+resists
+acc, damage
heals
-dam,-regen, -recovery
-res, -def
ally mez protection
Rez that does damage and stuns
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Originally Posted by Shadow Ravenwolf
My favorite combo is Faceplant/DebtCap with the TeamWipe Ancillary
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Originally Posted by Dispari
Yeah, I like Blasters too.
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Half of that is debuffs 
Empathy trumps Thermal.
unsigned char buf[BUFSIZ];
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You're thinking too small.|
Originally Posted by seebs
unsigned char buf[BUFSIZ];
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Code:
long long buf[BUFSZ];
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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Ahh, no. See, that can't be reliably used to hold objects of arbitrary types and examine their bytes, because only character types bypass the usual aliasing and effective type rules. |
Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
You're thinking too small.
Code:
long long buf[BUFSZ]; |
So if you do:double d = 3;
memcpy(buf, &d, sizeof(d));
mine lets you look at the bits that went into the float, yours would invoke undefined behavior if used that way.
<-- C standards guy
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Both very nice powers, but AB isn't going to be up full time unless you have recharge buffs on the Empath (or a high recharge build that the vast majority of players can't afford). Empathy is fantastic at buffing small groups but on full teams it can't buff everyone except with Clear Mind and the auras (which aren't full time). Kin is going to add a lot more offense and it still heals fairly well if people stay close to the enemy (not as well as Empathy but not bad), it just lacks the regen boost and to-hit buff.|
Originally Posted by Auroxis
Fortitude: +31.25% Damage, +18.75% ToHit(enhanceable)
Adrenalin Boost: +100% Recharge, +800% Recovery(Enough to bypass a nuke crash with a single EndMod IO). |
Really I'd say the best defensive buff set is Force Field. With both shields, Dispersion Bubble, and Maneuvers all 3-slotted with level 50 defense IOs it can literally softcap an entire team by itself. No other buff power set can come close to adding that much survivability to squishies and resist based melee types, though it doesn't do a lot for defense based characters. That said, I prefer Cold since it gives lots of defense too while also providing +HP (to the people who can actually use it) and some pretty good debuffs. Buff/debuff sets tend to add more to a team than pure buff sets, especially if there are multiple Defenders or Corruptors on the team.
Though in the right hands you might consider Storm the best buff set... not being attacked at all because the enemy is too busy falling on their butts in a corner while their range and accuracy are floored is a pretty big buff.
Cascade, level 50 Blaster (NRG/NRG since before it was cool)
Mechmeister, level 50 Bots / Traps MM
FAR too many non-50 alts to name
[u]Arcs[u]
The Scavenger Hunt: 187076
The Instant Lair Delivery Service: 206636
I like to have a defender that can heal, buff with both +Def and +Res and can debuff a foe. That way you get a little of all worlds. Combine this defender with either sonic, FF, Cold, Thermal or even an empath and you have a kick butt team.
What defender am I referring to that can do all this. A Dark Defender. Didn't see it mentioned so I thought I would mention it. They can even slow opponents. They are kind of a Defender-troller without the diminished returns on buffs.
However, with any good balanced team you can overcome most anything.
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I disagree. Some recharge sets are really cheap and easy to get(doctored wounds). It's really not hard to get high recharge on an empath anymore with hero merits and the alpha slot. I found myself actually removing recharge IO sets from my build after I19, and AB is still perma with several seconds to spare.|
Originally Posted by StrykerX
Both very nice powers, but AB isn't going to be up full time unless you have recharge buffs on the Empath (or a high recharge build that the vast majority of players can't afford). Empathy is fantastic at buffing small groups but on full teams it can't buff everyone except with Clear Mind and the auras (which aren't full time). Kin is going to add a lot more offense and it still heals fairly well if people stay close to the enemy (not as well as Empathy but not bad), it just lacks the regen boost and to-hit buff.
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Even if you can't get AB up full time, it'll be up a large majority of the time at least.
And as for Kin against Empathy, of course Kin gives more offense. But it doesn't compare to Empathy when it comes to keeping a team alive.
Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
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That depends on the team make up, if they are all melee then yes it can - spamming Transfusion and Transerence to keep both the green and blue bars maxed.|
Originally Posted by Auroxis
I disagree. Some recharge sets are really cheap and easy to get(doctored wounds). It's really not hard to get high recharge on an empath anymore with hero merits and the alpha slot. I found myself actually removing recharge IO sets from my build after I19, and AB is still perma with several seconds to spare.
Even if you can't get AB up full time, it'll be up a large majority of the time at least. And as for Kin against Empathy, of course Kin gives more offense. But it doesn't compare to Empathy when it comes to keeping a team alive. |
With a normal mixed team I agree with you though, the advantage goes to Empathy.
L50s: Tanks: Cryofission - Ice/EM - Dr Celsius - Fire/Ice - Saint George - SD/SS | Controllers: Psichosis - Ill/Kin - Major Chaos - Ill/Stm | Scrappers - Neutron Crusader - DM/SR
Currently Levelling: Angelic Blade - BS/WP Scrapper | Seeds of Destruction - Plant/Kin Controller
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See post #2 in this thread:|
Originally Posted by Psiphon
That depends on the team make up, if they are all melee then yes it can - spamming Transfusion and Transerence to keep both the green and blue bars maxed.
With a normal mixed team I agree with you though, the advantage goes to Empathy. |
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Originally Posted by Auroxis
Your buff heavy defenders are: Sonic, Force Field, Empathy, Cold, and Kinetics. All of these can perform different roles on a team.
There is no such thing as the best overall buff type defender. It all depends on the team at hand. |
Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
And now for something different. The best buffer is...
Mister Miyagi from Karate Kid!
Wax on, wax off
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
Certainly the "hardcore" supergroup I occasionally run with has no use for it.
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog