Filling your Alpha slot for Apex/Tin-Mage
By
Arbegla,
Posted on: 2010-12-11 23:45 in Player Questions
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dark_Tower
I have a question about the level shift (if there is one) given when you fill your alpha slot. When teams are looking for members to run the two new TF’s, Apex and Tin-Mage some make a big deal over the fact that you must have your alpha slot filled or the mobs in these TF’s will be +8, something about you fighting at a level 46 to their level 54. This makes no since to me, how would not filling your alpha slot drop you 4 levels?
Now I do know that once they unlock the rare and ultra-rare enhancements for your alpha slot there will be a level shift, but I’m not sure what that means exactly, will it mean you will con at a level 54 without really being a level 54? So my question then is, as I understand it, you must have your Alpha slot unlocked to be part of a team running either Apex or Tin-Mage, but do you need to have it filled at this time? How would a +33% bonus to endurance or damage make any difference in what level the mobs are to you. |
From the patch notes:
Quote:
|
Task Forces (Incarnate-only) We have added two Task Forces for characters who are level 50. These TF's should be tackled by characters who have slotted the Alpha slot with a power. Emperor Cole has perfected a debuff that affects characters who have no Alpha Abilities slotted. Characters without an Alpha Ability can still attempt the TF but it will be significantly more challenging.
|
This is different than the level shift you get from the higher tier Incarnate enhancements ( which are yet to be released ).
--------------
"Chew Electric Death, Snarling Cur!"
When you run the taskforces the praetorians are surprised that you are able to fight back. They thought no primal earth defenders would be immune to Cole's new power. Being an incarnate gives you power on a par with cole enabling you to fight at full strength. If you are not an incarnate, you are vulnerable to cole's powers and therefore you get dropped -4 levels.
"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.
Quote:
Yes .. what Gavin and Katze said is 100% correct.. Now add in that you are facing an enemy that is level 54 and THAT is where the -8 comes from. You are a 50 level with a -4 debuff effectively making your powers react like you are a 46 level. Your facing level 54 enemies so do the math ... 46 -54 = -8 |
Originally Posted by GavinRuneblade
When you run the taskforces the praetorians are surprised that you are able to fight back. They thought no primal earth defenders would be immune to Cole's new power. Being an incarnate gives you power on a par with cole enabling you to fight at full strength. If you are not an incarnate, you are vulnerable to cole's powers and therefore you get dropped -4 levels.
|
Now consider the fact that both of these TFs contain rather difficult battle, even if everyone on the team is slotted, and you can see why team leaders are not willing to add anyone that has not taken the time to slot their Alpha before trying Apex or Tin Man. I did that once on test and believe me with that -8 level differnce you rarely hit anything with your attacks and when you do its for practicvally no damage at all. Everyone I spoke to in chat while on the Beta site had the same feeling which was that when I 19 went live they wouldn't even think about running either TF with anyone on their team that was not slotted.
No one is demanding that everyone on the team have an uncommon slotted that I have seen .. they just want something in that slot so your are hurting the team. Run one ITF and one LGFT and you should have plenty of shards plus the two free components so you can craft a common Alpha enhancer and you're all set. Since, on Virtue anyway, these seem to be going day and night it shouldn't take long to find either and in a few whours your all set.
�We�re always the good guys. In D&D, we�re lawful good. In City of Heroes we�re the heroes. In Grand Theft Auto we pay the prostitutes promptly and never hit them with a bat.� � Leonard
�Those women are prostitutes? You said they were raising money for stem cell research!� � Sheldon
Quote:
It's a new game system specifically implemented in these two task forces.
|
Originally Posted by Dark_Tower
This makes no since to me, how would not filling your alpha slot drop you 4 levels?
|
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
Could a team consisting of all non-alpha slotted characters have any chance of beating one of these new TFs? That would make for some serious bragging rights if it could be pulled off.
I can't imagine a lvl 46 even scratching a warwalker... let alone one of the AVs.
Quote:
No. Just. No. When we tried that the first day, we spent about 30 minutes and couldn't get through one of those hotspots in the first mission. It was taking full party attacks to kill minions...we MIGHT have been able to do a boss but it would have taken all day (and with the rezzing and healing lieuts, that didn't help). God help us if we faced an AV.
|
Originally Posted by Person34
Could a team consisting of all non-alpha slotted characters have any chance of beating one of these new TFs? That would make for some serious bragging rights if it could be pulled off.
I can't imagine a lvl 46 even scratching a warwalker... let alone one of the AVs. |
Quote:
What was your team composition? I think a team of eight mixed /sonic defenders might have a chance: enough resistance debuffs to do healthy levels of damage, enough regen debuffs to ensure the damage sticks around, and enough resistance and defense buffs to keep everyone alive.
|
Originally Posted by Warsuit X-5
No. Just. No. When we tried that the first day, we spent about 30 minutes and couldn't get through one of those hotspots in the first mission. It was taking full party attacks to kill minions...we MIGHT have been able to do a boss but it would have taken all day (and with the rezzing and healing lieuts, that didn't help). God help us if we faced an AV.
|
Quote:
Pretty sure someone posted on the forums just after these went live that they pulled it off. Horrific death and dismemberment, yes, but probably not impossible.
|
Originally Posted by Warsuit X-5
No. Just. No. When we tried that the first day, we spent about 30 minutes and couldn't get through one of those hotspots in the first mission. It was taking full party attacks to kill minions...we MIGHT have been able to do a boss but it would have taken all day (and with the rezzing and healing lieuts, that didn't help). God help us if we faced an AV.
|
There are no words for what this community, and the friends I have made here mean to me. Please know that I care for all of you, yes, even you. If you Twitter, I'm MrThan. If you're Unleashed, I'm dumps. I'll try and get registered on the Titan Forums as well. Peace, and thanks for the best nine years anyone could ever ask for.
I could see a group of IOed to the gills min-max characters with just right combinations of buff/debuffs being able to pull if off without the alpha slot. I can also see buff heavy characters not needing the alpha slot either, as an empathy defender (especially on in an apex, or tin mage) isn't going to do much blasting, and is going to be doing a TON of buffing/healing, and those aren't affected by the -8 penalty.
Quote:
since they would be +8, and some of the AVs apparently have massive tohits anyway. You'd have to have 8 Cold/Sonics to get anywhere near decent debuffs and shields to withstand stuff.
|
Originally Posted by Katie V
What was your team composition? I think a team of eight mixed /sonic defenders might have a chance: enough resistance debuffs to do healthy levels of damage, enough regen debuffs to ensure the damage sticks around, and enough resistance and defense buffs to keep everyone alive.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by VoodooGirl
[*]Watching out for the Spinning Disco Portal of D00M!*
|
Quote:
Cold strikes me as a fairly poor choice for this: eight defenders should get about 45% defense and 100% to-hit just from Leadership buffs, meaning they can hit anything and only need another 15% defense to be softcapped. Infrigidate's damage debuff stacks to about the same level (8% per defender after factoring in purple patch) as Siphon Power, but without the side benefits. Benumb has the second-worst recharge-to-duration ratio of any of the -regen powers, without Howling Twilight's redeeming factor of being auto-hit.
|
Originally Posted by Mega_Jamie
since they would be +8, and some of the AVs apparently have massive tohits anyway. You'd have to have 8 Cold/Sonics to get anywhere near decent debuffs and shields to withstand stuff.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Katie V
Cold strikes me as a fairly poor choice for this: eight defenders should get about 45% defense and 100% to-hit just from Leadership buffs, meaning they can hit anything and only need another 15% defense to be softcapped. Infrigidate's damage debuff stacks to about the same level (8% per defender after factoring in purple patch) as Siphon Power, but without the side benefits. Benumb has the second-worst recharge-to-duration ratio of any of the -regen powers, without Howling Twilight's redeeming factor of being auto-hit.
|
softcap on defense is 45%, and while benumb's recharge really sucks, when you have 8 people rotating it, and it only take 1 benumb to floor the regen, it'll be possible with colds. Not having a way to negate incoming damage that breaks your hit cap would be the issue though.
Quote:
Except at +8 Combat Level, critter base to-hit isn't the normal 50% but rather 65. 45+15=60%, with 5% left over for the minimum miss/hit chance.|
Originally Posted by Arbegla
softcap on defense is 45%, and while benumb's recharge really sucks, when you have 8 people rotating it, and it only take 1 benumb to floor the regen, it'll be possible with colds. Not having a way to negate incoming damage that breaks your hit cap would be the issue though.
|
And they have a 1.5% accuracy modification based on level alone, so even the minions have a 7.5% minimum chance to hit you IF you are at 60% defense.
Lts 8.25, Bosses, 9%, and AVs 10 % minimum final hit chance do to that +8 CL.
And that's IF you are at 60+% defense.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
What about a fire/rad super team?
"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.
Quote:
Controls would operate at 5% of their usual duration, so Char will hold a minion or Lt for...2.2 seconds, fully slotted for Hold.|
Originally Posted by GavinRuneblade
What about a fire/rad super team?
|
Flashfire, slotted for +99.1% stun duration and with Power Boost, will stun a Minion or Lt for...2.4 seconds.
Hot Feet, slotted for +99.1% damage and receiving bonuses from 8 Controller-strength Assaults will tick for...1.22 damage every 2 seconds. If you apply all of the team's enervating fields, you can count on 1.33 damage every 2 seconds.
Enemies will attack for 1.88x their usual damage amounts.
I've got a bad feeling about this.
Quote:
When you're fighting enemies that are far above you in level, the game mechanics are no longer those you're familiar with (see: Purple Patch and Attack Mechanics). At +8, enemies get a 15% to-hit bonus and a 1.5x accuracy bonus, meaning the softcap is 60% defense and even then, the base chance of being hit is 7.5%. At the same time, your own base to-hit is reduced to around 5%, meaning you need massive to-hit and accuracy buffs to hit at a reasonable rate. The strength of your powers is also reduced to 5% of normal: Benumb becomes a 25% regen debuff, meaning you'll need to stack it four times to shut down a boss's regen -- and 31 times for an arch-villain.
|
Originally Posted by Arbegla
softcap on defense is 45%, and while benumb's recharge really sucks, when you have 8 people rotating it, and it only take 1 benumb to floor the regen, it'll be possible with colds. Not having a way to negate incoming damage that breaks your hit cap would be the issue though.
|
Quote:
We were a PUG group, but we couldn't clear a single hotspot. If we had a better tactical plan, we could have worked on the stupid builder/mender lieutenants, then the bosses and minions.|
Originally Posted by Katie V
What was your team composition? I think a team of eight mixed /sonic defenders might have a chance: enough resistance debuffs to do healthy levels of damage, enough regen debuffs to ensure the damage sticks around, and enough resistance and defense buffs to keep everyone alive.
|
Controls were useless, straight DPS was chump change. I mean, I was hitting minions with my Energy Transfer power, and their HP bar moved about as much as when I hit an EB with that. When I hit a normal minion with ET, that minion dies.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by DumpleBerry
Pretty sure someone posted on the forums just after these went live that they pulled it off. Horrific death and dismemberment, yes, but probably not impossible.
|
I have a question about the level shift (if there is one) given when you fill your alpha slot. When teams are looking for members to run the two new TFs, Apex and Tin-Mage some make a big deal over the fact that you must have your alpha slot filled or the mobs in these TFs will be +8, something about you fighting at a level 46 to their level 54. This makes no since to me, how would not filling your alpha slot drop you 4 levels?
Now I do know that once they unlock the rare and ultra-rare enhancements for your alpha slot there will be a level shift, but Im not sure what that means exactly, will it mean you will con at a level 54 without really being a level 54?
So my question then is, as I understand it, you must have your Alpha slot unlocked to be part of a team running either Apex or Tin-Mage, but do you need to have it filled at this time? How would a +33% bonus to endurance or damage make any difference in what level the mobs are to you.
Dark Tower. SL50 Stone/Stone Tanker
Founder The Freedom Phalanx Reserve
An Infinity Top 25 Super Group
Founded January 4th 2006