Full power set respec's
By
Aura_Familia,
Posted on: 2010-12-09 18:06 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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because posts that actually make useful suggestions get buried and go un-noticed: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=240616
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Originally Posted by Sharker_Quint
And again, why not just ask for all of the anniversary badges to be globalized. There is no reason for an AT/power respec. Much less to start back at level 1. Might as well re-roll.
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There is no reason to keep accolades that are re-earnable. And they really don't take that long to get. So, again, no reason to do a full repsec. Not to mention the devs have said absolutely not to this idea. No matter how many times it is brought up, they will not change their minds on this as it would go against their whole idea of the game and against all of the work they have done to make the game what it is.
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Originally Posted by BrandX
Well there's the anniversary badges, and for some characters, I'd have liked to respec, and just kept the accolades I already earned without going after them again.
Mind you, most of my 50's have at least 2 of the 4 accolades that grant +Health/+End. |
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*shrugs* I was just commenting on the OP. I didn't make the suggestion. |
Originally Posted by Sharker_Quint
There is no reason to keep accolades that are re-earnable. And they really don't take that long to get. So, again, no reason to do a full repsec. Not to mention the devs have said absolutely not to this idea. No matter how many times it is brought up, they will not change their minds on this as it would go against their whole idea of the game and against all of the work they have done to make the game what it is.
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BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
I skimmed through the first few posts and I have to say a few things.
Purge, other people DO have an opinion. It doesn't have to be backed up by anything of value. Facts do. Opinions dont. Crazy concept, I know.
It's never gonna happen. Learn it, live it, deal with it.
Also, IBTL.
Seven years of heroism. Seven years of friendships. Seven years of saving the world. Seven years of virtuous selflessness.
You will return, for you are the mighty City of Paragon, the City of Heroes.
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So because someone has been here longer than me means that their opinion is worth more than mine? |
Originally Posted by Purge
Really...lazy and shortsighted? I think rerolling is stupid and people that have been here alot longer then you, might find it better then YOU think. Also, I think your being shortsighted by feeling the game is alright like it is, I mean we can name change and server change...why not this? Saying that this is the WORST idea..."Your opinion!"
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Bottom line- if you want to try a new powerset, roll a new toon. This game is based on having numerous alts to strap into for whatever the situation calls for. And yes, this is my opinion. This is a forum where we exchange ideas, opinions, and information.
I didn't say the game is alright like it is, you pulled those words out of a hat. But... if it is a choice between taking the game as it is, and taking the version you are offering, I will take the current version.
Words to the wise aren't necessary- it's the stupid ones that need them.
"You're right...I forgot...being constantly at or the near the damage cap is a big turn off. Definitely not worth it."
- Vitality
I'd vote a strong NO on total respecs, for the reasons already mentioned (no experience with the set, etc). However...
That being said, I WOULD like to have some way to "preview" a character at level 50, say on the Test server. I enjoy leveling to 50. Really, I do. It's part of why I play the game. However, there are certain combinations that I don't particularly enjoy playing at the lower levels (Electric Armor tanks, for example) that I wouldn't mind trying out at higher levels (say, 38+) to see if it becomes more enjoyable to play later on, and becomes worth the time to get there.
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Originally Posted by Purge
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Originally Posted by Purge
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Originally Posted by Purge
Thats not what i'm saying at all! I also said, keep thinking about it to, if I just gave you the answer...that wouldn't help either right?
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@Roderick
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I seem to recall that, early on, they said a flat no to that, because they thought it would break the game if you couldn't recognize powers or something.|
Originally Posted by DMystic
And I'm talking a flat no, not a sorry but it's not feasible due to time constraints(Power Colorization)
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That said...
I don't think it's likely to happen. Quite simply, the differences between different sets are too large; it's not a change at the level of "I'd like to change which of these sets gets the most focus from me", it's a change at the level of "I want to make this character into a completely different character".
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They sometimes have that available, I have seen at least two, probably three opportunities now, usually right before an issue goes live. It would nice for a server set that way permanently to exist though.|
Originally Posted by Scirion
That being said, I WOULD like to have some way to "preview" a character at level 50, say on the Test server.
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Unrelated to the quoted post is, I think "Wipe" of character would be great, complete with gaining new powersets, so long as they don't get back to 50, basically a reroll, but the ability to keep things that are no longer gainable, such as the anniversary badges
There's my loose change.
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Originally Posted by Galactoman
Poor Coyote... I've always wondered what he did to piss off Statesman badly enough to earn himself a lifetime of telling newbies to punch sick people...
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Ooohhhh Snap - 50th level Fire/Kinetic Controller - Guardian
Frigid Hottie - 50th level Fire/Cold Controller - Guardian
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Yes. |
Originally Posted by Purge
Also, can you specify why it's a bad suggestion?
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A lot of powersets are balanced around the fact that they start out weak and get really powerful later.
If a full powerset respec were possible, you could level as a Willpower tank, and respec into Stone Armor at level 34 (which is when you could have Granite fully slotted by). If you did that, you would get the good part of Stone Armor without having to play through the weaker part first.
Or you could level a Katana/Regen scrapper and switch to Fire Melee/Shield Defense at 40. You get the smooth leveling curve of the regen, and the high level power of the Fire/Shield.
Since the high level performance of those sets is balanced around being relatively weaker at low levels, allowing people to skip over the low levels with them just wouldn't be fair.
There's also the point of enhancement slotting. We are probably never going to get the ability to hold more than 10 enhancements at once. What happens if you switch from Super Reflexes (which takes defense enhancements) to Dark Armor (which you need resistance enhancements for)? SInce you suddenly are not even capable of slotting more than half your enhancements, and can't hold more than 10, you are potentially flushing hundreds of millions of influence worth of IOs down the drain because you have no choice in the matter.
Furthermore, the devs have always encouraged people to play more than one character. This is beneficial for a few reasons.
First, it keeps people interested in the game. I have a lot of fun figuring out what my new character can do, and I imagine a lot of people feel the same about it. With inherent Fitness, the biggest complaint about leveling a new character is gone. No matter what you roll, you can find SOMETHING fun to do at low levels.
Second, how are new players going to get involved in the community of the game if they are at level 5 and everyone else is at level 50 because they have no reason to roll a new character. A lot of new players get hooked after running a few missions with a veteran player and they see what you can do once you know what's going on. If players roll one character and just keep switching powersets when they feel like playing something else, those new players are going to be on their own, and might not stick around very long if they get frustrated with something and there is no one to ask about it.
And let's not forget, this is one of a very small number of things the devs have outright said will NEVER happen. It's not because they haven't figured it out yet, and it's not because they don't have enough people. They aren't going to do it because they just don't want us doing this.
Positron gave their official stance as being "If we did that it would undermine all the work we have done over the past 6 years making the game alt-friendly." (Paraphrasing there, I don't recall his exact words, but it was saying the same basic thing.)
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
No.
The majority of the fun in this game is 1-50. End game content has to be balanced with 1-50 content which is why CoX is so awesome in that regard as it encourages to roll alts.
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This kind of "balance" made no sense in 1st edition AD&D, and it makes no sense now.
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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Since the high level performance of those sets is balanced around being relatively weaker at low levels, allowing people to skip over the low levels with them just wouldn't be fair.
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Horse. Dead. Beating. Stop it.
As for the argument, "What if I get to 50 and the evil stupid devs nerf it and I can't play any more and I hate the game and ragequit", um, well, first of all the devs don't just sit around waiting for characters to get to 50 so they can nerf that character into oblivion and force the player to start over. Yes, ATs get nerfed, it happens, but you learn to deal with it and move on.
Second, the whole purpose of nerfing, well, overperforming classes in an MMO is because, well, they're overperforming. If they allowed you to just switch to whatever other class is the next in line that would kind of defeat the purpose. Besides, it would be nerfed soon enough as well. The devs want players to try out all kind of ATs, not just whatever is the Flavor of the Month this month.
If you have enough alts, then you shouldn't be effected by nerfs, because either you will have another character that isn't touched by the nerf, or one that has actually been BUFFED. Which is another reason to go along with the devs' encouragement to create many alts. And you will know more about playing that alt anyway, since you will have played it from the beginning.
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True but doesn't change the fact that the OP's idea is STILL a bad one.
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Originally Posted by seebs
This kind of "balance" made no sense in 1st edition AD&D, and it makes no sense now.
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Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
Just to play devil's advocate here, I actually would pay to respec the secondary powersets of my mains. They're currently using Super Reflexes, but Willpower fits the characters' concepts better. (The Willpower powerset wasn't available when I rolled my Scrapper in late April, 2004, nor was it available when I created my Stalker in October of 2005.)
And due to my badge collections, re-rolling is out of the question... unless they let me copy all the badges over to new characters upon deleting the current ones, in which case I would pay for that option instead.
Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
Main Villain: Evil Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1193 Badges
Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!
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Use the right tool for the proper job. Would drive me batty to have to spend 45 mins prepping up for a mish because my buddy asked for debuffs.
Of course that comes after the fact that if a complete powerset/AT respec was made, it would no longer be the same character. I invite a competent tank I teamed with yesterday and discover he has turned into a really bad stalker. Right. Good plan.
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Take the long term player perspective and shove it. I've been here since April '04 and to suggest my opinion is more or less valid than someone that's been here 3 months simply because of time is absurd. |
Originally Posted by Purge
people that have been here alot longer then you, might find it better then YOU think
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I think the idea combats the demand for and utilization of low and mid level content... content that not only adds to my personal enjoyment and appreciation of the gameplay and story but also the appreciation of those factors for newer players. City of Heroes does a better job of keeping veteran players mixed with newer players across the game than any other online game I've played.
I wholeheartedly believe other games ignoring the low-mid content, or using it solely as a means to propel people to the "high end", is what caused some of them to die out.
Some people are just not satisfied unless they are at the highest level with the best gear/abilities/widgets. I cannot drop the feeling that this is a significant portion of reason for the popularity of total respecifications. Devaluing most of the game so people can play the "high end" quicker is, in this noobs opinion, the wrong focus.
I dont know why it is a horrible idea, but it is my belief it is one.
If they pulled some CO style crap like this, It would be bad for the game.
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Actually I would quite happily pay a reasonable fee for a "Premium Respec" that let me change my primary/secondary powerpools. I'd probably be happy paying double or triple the existing name/server change fee.|
Originally Posted by Pyro_Master_NA
Just saying again, this would be NOTHING like a name or server change. Neither of those can be abused like this would. And each of those cost RL money to use, and I doubt that people would pay money to change powersets when they have no experience with the set and have no solid idea of how it would play.
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Even if it was a several times more expensive than the name/server change fees, a Premium Respec fee would give the devs an extra revenue stream that would somewhat compensate for the extra alt slots people would stop buying and, perhaps more importantly, the shift in population between powersets would be a big red flag showing which powersets needed tweaking to make them competetive.
L50 as a Tank, Mastermind, Soldier, Blaster, Defender & Brute so far. Still trying testing alts in search of my 'main'. So many possibilities!
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Regen changes|
Originally Posted by Terse
Even if it was a several times more expensive than the name/server change fees, a Premium Respec fee would give the devs an extra revenue stream that would somewhat compensate for the extra alt slots people would stop buying and, perhaps more importantly, the shift in population between powersets would be a big red flag showing which powersets needed tweaking to make them competetive.
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Domination changes
Changes in Defiance
... they don't need people doing "powerset respecs" to tell if a powerset (or AT) is underperforming.
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If Devs used popularity of sets as a meter for whether or not a set needed to be tweaked, everything outside of fire/kin trollers and elec/shield scrappers would need to be tweaked. Just because a combination is not as popular as other combos doesn't mean that it is a problematic pairing.
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Originally Posted by Terse
Actually I would quite happily pay a reasonable fee for a "Premium Respec" that let me change my primary/secondary powerpools. I'd probably be happy paying double or triple the existing name/server change fee.
Even if it was a several times more expensive than the name/server change fees, a Premium Respec fee would give the devs an extra revenue stream that would somewhat compensate for the extra alt slots people would stop buying and, perhaps more importantly, the shift in population between powersets would be a big red flag showing which powersets needed tweaking to make them competetive. |
Words to the wise aren't necessary- it's the stupid ones that need them.
"You're right...I forgot...being constantly at or the near the damage cap is a big turn off. Definitely not worth it."
- Vitality
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Uh...this reasoning has constantly been posted in argument after argument on this topic for years. I have a hard time believing this is an issue you personally have revisited time and again and yet you've never seen that answer.
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Originally Posted by Purge
Ty, I didn't know this je_saist! I have asked before and have never seen an answer why! This for me is an on going thought and was told over and over to post on Forums. Guess this is a Dropped issue for me TY again!
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If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
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Maybe they should sell lvl 50 toons to an account for a premium. They could charge less than the pling companys do. Would that interest you as well?
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Originally Posted by Terse
Actually I would quite happily pay a reasonable fee for a "Premium Respec" that let me change my primary/secondary powerpools. I'd probably be happy paying double or triple the existing name/server change fee.
Even if it was a several times more expensive than the name/server change fees, a Premium Respec fee would give the devs an extra revenue stream that would somewhat compensate for the extra alt slots people would stop buying and, perhaps more importantly, the shift in population between powersets would be a big red flag showing which powersets needed tweaking to make them competetive. |
Mind you, most of my 50's have at least 2 of the 4 accolades that grant +Health/+End.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection