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Well, having a third build lets me keep my prupled out recharge build and make my safety build around defense. I love my recharge build for teaming. Not so hot on it for solo, but I don't solo much anymore.|
Originally Posted by _Elektro_
It's funny you mention almost 5 sets of purples.
Here I am thinking that if I did go recharge Alpha, I might skip the purples, because the downside of purples is you can end up giving up a lot of defense. Right now my attacks are loaded with positional defense. To give those up means I get squishier, but faster. Not lots faster, because in some cases we are talking about replacing 6.25% recharge, with 10 %. So what's the verdict? Are you keeping him this way? My thought was to keep the bonus to defense sets, and bonus to damage sets, and forgo the Purple sets. (as said in my previous post my recharge is really decent already.) |
Just for an example... I'll scall the walls in Cim and pop off blizzard for an hour and I usually get one or two shards, a few orange recipes, maybe a purp here and there, and lots and lots of junk to sell, so it fits my solo style. But if I was soloing mishes with difficulty up.. meh... I'd need a totally different approach.
Endurance reduction / range and resistance 
I'm archery / energy , but tend to eat up stamina in a longer fight. So, the endurance lets me keep going (and using my conserve energy on extra long fights).
I'm also built for range, it is the ultimate defense. I can shoot my normally 50 foot cone farther than normal mobs can attack. I can tank lord recluse in STF while my team kills the towers (because, well, he can't reach me).
And then, the extra resistance just boosts my resist damage epic pool (which is nice). I don't normally get attacked much (because things are dead), but when I do... well, smashing / lethal resist is always welcome.
Mew
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Very few Blasters have a gapless AoE chain (or at least ones that only uses high damage attacks). Also, most AoEs are not ED capped on recharge because the good sets are a bit light on it. That means your AoE damage potential is going to go up if you slot Spiritual... your single target chain may not change and you may still be using Aim one spawn and Build Up the next, but less single target blasting between Fireballs or Bullet Rains or whatever is a good thing, especially in large teams where you'll be able to use several AoEs before things drop.
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Originally Posted by Auroxis
And what if you already have your attack chains and you have no endurance issues?
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Cascade, level 50 Blaster (NRG/NRG since before it was cool)
Mechmeister, level 50 Bots / Traps MM
FAR too many non-50 alts to name
[u]Arcs[u]
The Scavenger Hunt: 187076
The Instant Lair Delivery Service: 206636
Now, with the T3 and T4 Alphas out, methinks a rehash if this entire discussion might be necessary. Very necessary. 45% damage above ED cap? Uhhhhh.... hard to pass up if I can get the perma hasten without the alpha...
Might keep recharge slotted until I can achieve that and immediately switch. Just a thought.
Quote:
The very rares only gives 2/3s of that 45% above the ED cap. So 30% ED free.|
Originally Posted by DanZero
Now, with the T3 and T4 Alphas out, methinks a rehash if this entire discussion might be necessary. Very necessary. 45% damage above ED cap?
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But yeah, that's exactly what my plan was. I slotted the common recharge and then saved my shards so I could slot a rare damage as soon as they were released. So my powers are now at about 125% damage enhancement each.
Main Hero: Mazey - level 50 + 1 fire/fire/fire blaster.
Main Villain: Chained Bot - level 50 + 1 Robot/FF Mastermind.
BattleEngine - "And the prize for the most level headed response ever goes to Mazey"
Quote:
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Originally Posted by DanZero
Now, with the T3 and T4 Alphas out, methinks a rehash if this entire discussion might be necessary. Very necessary. 45% damage above ED cap? Uhhhhh.... hard to pass up if I can get the perma hasten without the alpha...
Might keep recharge slotted until I can achieve that and immediately switch. Just a thought. |
? Who wasn't taking this into account earlier? I know some people did, me included. It still is going to depend on where you want to go overall with your build, no matter what.
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
I ended up going Spiritual on my Blaster. But I'm starting to see the value of Cardiac. Its primary bonus isn't something my chars usually need, but the bonuses to RES and range are very nice. I have 3 chars planned around Cardiac now.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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I like how all the E^3 blasters (including me) are thinking about the damage increase. With Assault on I run at 33% to start plus whatever I get from defiance. my endurance is always fine and there isn't a power that comes up too slowly for me, damage is where it's at IMO.
Quote:
Wait, aren't you /Energy?
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Originally Posted by _Elektro_
It's funny you mention almost 5 sets of purples.
Here I am thinking that if I did go recharge Alpha, I might skip the purples, because the downside of purples is you can end up giving up a lot of defense. Right now my attacks are loaded with positional defense. To give those up means I get squishier, but faster. Not lots faster, because in some cases we are talking about replacing 6.25% recharge, with 10 %. So what's the verdict? Are you keeping him this way? My thought was to keep the bonus to defense sets, and bonus to damage sets, and forgo the Purple sets. (as said in my previous post my recharge is really decent already.) |
Moonlighter
50s include MA/SD, MA/SR, DP/Elec, Claw/Inv, Kat/Dark, Kat/Fire, Spine/Regen, Dark/SD
First Arc: Tequila Sunrise, #168563
Yup. Dual Pistols/EM.
Basically I look at the damage monitor while I play.... there is no way I'm taking Musculature on a blaster. YMMV but I'm definitely going Spiritual Core.
Nekron: Beam Rifle / Poison Corruptor and Slayer of Evil!! (Exalted)
Intergalaktic: Fire / Time Corruptor (Exalted)
Quote:
The reason I ask is for /Energy, recharge equates to a chunk of defense. Power Boost increases your defense boosts from powers by a good chunk; going with recharge to make Hasten and Power Boost perma indirectly boosts the defense that your powers contribute to your mitigation.|
Originally Posted by _Elektro_
Yup. Dual Pistols/EM.
Basically I look at the damage monitor while I play.... there is no way I'm taking Musculature on a blaster. YMMV but I'm definitely going Spiritual Core. |
The bigger the defense from powers (as opposed to set bonuses) the better perma-PB looks.
By leveraging a recharge based build in DP/Energy with, say, Scorpion Shield I can cap S/L and Energy defense at the same time as having Hasten and Power Boost perma.
The advantage of this strategy as opposed to stacking defense in the traditional way is that the up time for Build Up and the recharge of Empty Clips, Bullet Rain and Hail of Bullets is dramatically better than my build that had less recharge and more defense stacking.
Edit: This post is meant as a discussion of strategy and not as a disagreement. The tone upon rereading might make it sound like a counter point or disagreement and I didn't mean it that way.
Moonlighter
50s include MA/SD, MA/SR, DP/Elec, Claw/Inv, Kat/Dark, Kat/Fire, Spine/Regen, Dark/SD
First Arc: Tequila Sunrise, #168563
Yea... I'm seeing from your edit you realize it sounds like you're disagreeing with me. lol
But you're preaching to the choir. ;P
I'm going to post in Dual Pistol thread on this just because I don't want to muddy this thread with discussion specific to DP when it's about Alpha slotting in a more generic discussion.
Nekron: Beam Rifle / Poison Corruptor and Slayer of Evil!! (Exalted)
Intergalaktic: Fire / Time Corruptor (Exalted)
Quote:
It's actually about /Energy. The discussion has little to do specifically with DP and applies to any primary that can't generate continual AoE damage.
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Originally Posted by _Elektro_
Yea... I'm seeing from your edit you realize it sounds like you're disagreeing with me. lol
But you're preaching to the choir. ;P I'm going to post in Dual Pistol thread on this just because I don't want to muddy this thread with discussion specific to DP when it's about Alpha slotting in a more generic discussion. |
Moonlighter
50s include MA/SD, MA/SR, DP/Elec, Claw/Inv, Kat/Dark, Kat/Fire, Spine/Regen, Dark/SD
First Arc: Tequila Sunrise, #168563
Sorry you lost me....
I mean to say I was giving a more specific answer relating to dual pistols in my own thread because I didn't want to muddy up this one... which I'm probably doing right now... so I've defeated my own purpose. 
Nekron: Beam Rifle / Poison Corruptor and Slayer of Evil!! (Exalted)
Intergalaktic: Fire / Time Corruptor (Exalted)
Quote:
Okay let's look at it this way.|
Originally Posted by Dispari
So I keep having this debate with people. Assuming you aren't taking the incarnate to fill in a hole in your build, what's better for a Blaster in your opinion: damage or recharge?
Recharge means your AoEs are up faster, and so are BU and Aim. But damage means you just plain do more damage. Which do you think would be better in the long run? No wrong answers.  |
For your damage-doing attacks, you're somewhere between 90 and 100% enhanced for damage from slotting. Correct?
Now, by the same token, you're only 40-70% enhanced for recharge right?
Let's take a look at something like Knockout Blow. Now, I'm not going to be taking into account Arcanatime or anything like that. It'd changed my numbers a bit for sure, but the basic point remains.
Take KO blow and 6-slot it for Crushing Impact.
You're at roughly 101% damage enhancement and 69% recharge enhancement.
Note: Rounding to the nearest integer for simplicity's sake
A Common Incarnate would add 10% damage or 33% recharge due to the portion that ignores ED, you're getting pretty much the full recharge value of the enhancement out of it.
An Uncommon would add 16% damage or 33% recharge.
A Rare would add 21%-27% (33% or 45% boost) damage or 33%-45% recharge.
A Very Rare would add 27-35% damage or 33%-45% recharge.
Now I'm taking this into account beyond all other recharge bonuses beyond just the base recharge enhancement and the 5% of the set.
Unmodified for various critter types, resists, etc and assuming all attacks actually hit.
In a 1 minute period KO blow would do:
(Damage Mod/Rech Mod)
- Unenhanced: 316/316
- IO Enhanced: 955/955
- Common: 1005/1273
- Uncommon: 1031/1273
- Rare33: 1057/1273
- Rare45: 1085/1592
- VRare: 1083/1273
- VRare: 1121/1592
Now, on the flip side, DoT "aura" powers (hot feet, etc) gain approximately NO advantage from extra recharge and might benefit more from the extra damage than the recharge. However, they might also benefit more from extreme EndRedux. It really depends on how much damage is being done.
Take Hot Feet on a */Fire blaster. 6-slotted for damage will get you about 27-28 damage. A Rare/VeryRare will get you 31-32 damage.
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Quote:
That's just one attack.|
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Okay let's look at it this way.
For your damage-doing attacks, you're somewhere between 90 and 100% enhanced for damage from slotting. Correct? Now, by the same token, you're only 40-70% enhanced for recharge right? Let's take a look at something like Knockout Blow. Now, I'm not going to be taking into account Arcanatime or anything like that. It'd changed my numbers a bit for sure, but the basic point remains. Take KO blow and 6-slot it for Crushing Impact. You're at roughly 101% damage enhancement and 69% recharge enhancement. Note: Rounding to the nearest integer for simplicity's sake A Common Incarnate would add 10% damage or 33% recharge due to the portion that ignores ED, you're getting pretty much the full recharge value of the enhancement out of it. An Uncommon would add 16% damage or 33% recharge. A Rare would add 21%-27% (33% or 45% boost) damage or 33%-45% recharge. A Very Rare would add 27-35% damage or 33%-45% recharge. Now I'm taking this into account beyond all other recharge bonuses beyond just the base recharge enhancement and the 5% of the set. Unmodified for various critter types, resists, etc and assuming all attacks actually hit. In a 1 minute period KO blow would do: (Damage Mod/Rech Mod)
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If my blaster only had one attack, damn right I'd be taking recharge over damage.
But my blaster doesn't only have one attack, he has several. I'm never ever in the situation that I don't have an attack recharged when I need it, bar being held.
As I'm never waiting for an attack to recharge, extra recharge is near useless for me, whereas the very rare core damage gives me 33% more damage enhancement. Akin to 4-slotting every power for damage pre-ED.
Yes, if you're in the situation where your desired attack-chain has holes due to lacking recharge, then go for more recharge. But if it doesn't, extra damage is a very viable option.
Main Hero: Mazey - level 50 + 1 fire/fire/fire blaster.
Main Villain: Chained Bot - level 50 + 1 Robot/FF Mastermind.
BattleEngine - "And the prize for the most level headed response ever goes to Mazey"
Those numbers really don't show the whole story. Unlike damage bonuses you can get a lot of recharge from Hasten and set bonuses, often enough to get your optimal attack chain without needing spiritual.
Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
Quote:
Missing the point. In the downtime between this "one attack", you fill in with other attacks that are also recharge boosted. Essentially your entire attack chain cycles faster. Period.|
Originally Posted by Mazey
That's just one attack.
If my blaster only had one attack, damn right I'd be taking recharge over damage. But my blaster doesn't only have one attack, he has several. I'm never ever in the situation that I don't have an attack recharged when I need it, bar being held. As I'm never waiting for an attack to recharge, extra recharge is near useless for me, whereas the very rare core damage gives me 33% more damage enhancement. Akin to 4-slotting every power for damage pre-ED. Yes, if you're in the situation where your desired attack-chain has holes due to lacking recharge, then go for more recharge. But if it doesn't, extra damage is a very viable option. |
Having your entire attack chain to cycle through faster will output more damage over time than the simple damage enhancement would.
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Quote:
But they are colorful and well formatted.
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Originally Posted by Auroxis
Those numbers really don't show the whole story. Unlike damage bonuses you can get a lot of recharge from Hasten and set bonuses, often enough to get your optimal attack chain without needing spiritual.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Missing the point. In the downtime between this "one attack", you fill in with other attacks that are also recharge boosted. Essentially your entire attack chain cycles faster. Period.
Having your entire attack chain to cycle through faster will output more damage over time than the simple damage enhancement would. |
60+ posts on this topic and the colorful analysis manages to be wrong in two completely opposite ways at the same time.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Auroxis
Those numbers really don't show the whole story. Unlike damage bonuses you can get a lot of recharge from Hasten and set bonuses, often enough to get your optimal attack chain without needing spiritual.
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Again, this is why I stated that it was done in a vacuum where things like Hasten, and massive amounts of set-based recharge aren't factored in.
Yes, if you're built for recharge with 100+ global recharge, it might make more sense to go for the damage boost. Usually such a build would benefit more from Cardiac though (as high recharge builds tend to burn through End like a hungry fat man at a hot dog eating contest.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Another_Fan
60+ posts on this topic and the colorful analysis manages to be wrong in two completely opposite ways at the same time.
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Please clarify.
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Quote:
First the damage analysis misses defiance aim and build up|
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Please clarify.
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Second the recharge analysis misses the blaster will be running a seemless attack chain, so the recharge bonus is only significant in its capability for replacing low damage attack with higher damage attacks.
Third recharge does determine how often aim and build up come up but they are usually slotted to the ED cap for recharge.
Edit: This was covered in the first page of the thred
Quote:
Your attack chain can't recharge faster than "no gaps in the first place."
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Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Please clarify.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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I have (almost) five pruple sets which give rechage, five of the 6.2% recharge sets, and five of the 5% recharge sets. Now, an Alpha for recharge. With Hasten up almost permanently, nukes, self rez, aim etc are always back up after a fight.
Downtime = less damage.
Waiting for self rez = less damage.
No Build up or Aim = much less damage.
Plus, with Ice/Energy, I can have conserve power up most of the time. I can spam frost breath and ice storm. My three holds are always up. And mt ST damage goes through the roof.
Damage? Even my tier 1 does more damage than 50% damage bonus on my tier 3. More attacks offer superior damage.
Here I am thinking that if I did go recharge Alpha, I might skip the purples, because the downside of purples is you can end up giving up a lot of defense. Right now my attacks are loaded with positional defense. To give those up means I get squishier, but faster. Not lots faster, because in some cases we are talking about replacing 6.25% recharge, with 10 %.
So what's the verdict? Are you keeping him this way? My thought was to keep the bonus to defense sets, and bonus to damage sets, and forgo the Purple sets. (as said in my previous post my recharge is really decent already.)
Nekron: Beam Rifle / Poison Corruptor and Slayer of Evil!! (Exalted)
Intergalaktic: Fire / Time Corruptor (Exalted)