Sapping?

I was wondering if anyone knew what the mechanics were with sapping in PVE? I tried it a few years ago... but completely forgot if it actually stopped NPCs from attacking (I have a faint memory of them still being able to get attacks off).

What about for AV's? And other giant type monsters?

Sapping isn't as effective in my opinion as it seems. With a kin/elec/elec defender you can sap an entire mob very quickly, including the boss using transferance, however they can start plugging away at you as soon as they get even the smallest sliver of endurance back. Without a decent amount of -recovery I cant see sapping to be very viable. Especially compared to something like how a dark/dark defender can neuter a spawn with -acc and keep them that way. Much more easy and effective than sapping.

There are several feasible options. The one you should use depends on your playstyle.

I have an Electric/Electric brute and can pretty much keep a boss drained and unable to attack. The mobs around her are slowed down but generally get attacks off once in a while. This is with Lightning Field running (damage IOs only): use Power Sink and a couple of melee attacks and the boss is drained and unable to attack thereafter.

The same thing is true with a SS/Electric brute: run Lightning Field, use Power Sink, then use Ball Lightning and Electrifying Fences. It doesn't do quite as good a job, but it definitely slows the boss down (minions are usually dead by the time you pull out Fences).

I also have an Electric/Electric blaster: Short Circuit and Power Sink are both required to drain them dry. If you crank up the recharge on SC you can keep them from attacking pretty well. This works best if you have someone else to take aggro while you drain them.

None of these things work very well on EBs and AVs, however.

My Electric/Kinetic controller is still languishing at level 16, but I imagine it will do even better -- Transference properly slotted will usually drain them dry all by itself if they've used an attack. Combined with Conductive Aura and Static Field you should be able to keep an entire spawn drained and unable to attack.

Electric Control for controllers and dominators provide for good AoE sapping. I have a newish controler EC/kinetic that I look forward to its sapping ability once it hits 35 for transference.

Sapping isn't easy still. We have no single target power that gives good -End and -Recovery reliably, so evaluating the basic mechanism is a bit like evaluating holds based purely on Choking Cloud and KO Blow. But having said that, I've tried the following:

Elec/Energy Blaster: 1 star.
Power Boost + SC Falls just short of sapping +2s in a very frustrating way.

Elec/Elec Blaster: 3 stars.
Decent group sap if you can survive. I tended to hold first, sap second.

Kin/Elec Defender: 4 stars.
Good single target sap via Transferendce and Short Circuit.

Elec/Elec Dom: 5 stars!
Best sapper I've played yet. No reliance on poxy old Short Circuit, instead you drain your enemies justb by being there. You don't have any -Recovery, but hard-sapping is not such an issue with the other controls you have.

I feel like the potential effectiveness is being somewhat understated.

I watched an elec domi drain the ITF boss dry after he rezed and he just kinda stood there and died afterward.

Looking at how long some of the encounters are in the new strikeforces, it could very well be a viable and potent option now.

My elec/kin controller has sapped GMs and AVs sucsessfully, although most times it's not long before the foe is dropped (although perhaps if I avoid SBing everyone and don't fight along side multiple other buffers/debuffers I'd be able to finish sapping while they still have more health left...)
As for large spawns of normal baddies, I sap them very fast, although sometimes not as fast as steamrolling teams can clear most of the spawn away.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BackAlleyBrawler That...was a Herocon 09 exclusive easter egg. The powerset will not have doves associated with it. Namely because you guys would want to color tint the damn doves, or make them hawks/ravens/flying sharks/etc and that's just a headache I do...not...want...to deal with.

As a sapper with both an E3 Blaster, and a Rad/Elec Defender, I think that
sapping, while effective, it isn't the easiest, or most effective strategy.

Both Dark and Rad, can floor Acc/To-Hit easier and more safely (typically)
than a sapper can do his thing.

That said, you work with what you have.

For Mike, a couple other powers will help finish what you began with Short
Circuit and Power sink. Ball Lightning, Tesla Cage, and Lightning Field are
all pretty good in this regard.

Edit: I missed that your 1 star guy was EN - My bad. (thought you meant
Elec/Elec, which is definitely better than 1 star... as you noted)

Also, SC can have enough recharge to fire off every 10-12 seconds, so once
they are drained, I can keep them there with that and BL.

As for EB's, I was able to drain all of them on the Incarnate arc, and it was
a very effective strategy for him. In several of those cases, I was then
able to chain hold them (he has 3 holds) which made those fights much
more manageable. As for AV's and GM's though, you can pretty much
forget it - it's not happening there without a bunch of additional help.


Regards,
4

One combination that has been overlooked is an electric/psi dom - add in drain psyche to end drain from electric control and you can floor a mobs end recovery in addition to draining their end, which means once you do get them drained they are going to stay that way. It provides a little bit more of a safety net.

Don't Whiz on the Electric Fence

I play sappers quite a bit. I believe people set their expectations too high which is why they are often disappointed when they play something that has the ability to drain the endurance from a mob.

Their expectation is that what happens to a foe with no end is what happens to THEIR toon with no end which is no ability to attack or defend. NPC are not built this way. Often times they can attack with even a meager amount of endurance.

However what people tend to overlook is that they will tend to use their WEAKEST attacks, so you can effectively reduce the amount of damage by continuing to force them to utilize attacks that do less damage.

I have played so far

Elec/Elec/Elec Blaster. I can easily sap +2 mobs with the combination of Short Circuit and Power Sink and I DO NOT have an IO'd defense build of any type on ANY blaster I play.

Elec/Rad Controller. This in all honesty is not even fair. Conductive Aura + Choking Choking Cloud + Powersink ( yup went all the way villian to get Mu Power Pool and then all the wya back to hero again ) will easily keep foes locked down.
( in fact the toons name is Lockdown )

Elec/Kin Corruptur. Again easily done with Short Circuit and PowerSink but also throw in Transference ???!!!!!!!! Plus with Siphon Speed to boost my recharge rate I can easily spam Short Circuit.

Elec/Elec Dominator. Still working on this toon. Ill have better idea tonight when I get all of his slotting done but it looks very promising.

Elec/Psi Domintor. Again one of the planned builds but I tested it during Beta so I KNOW this one works very very well.

So long story short.. YES you can sap and you can do it effectively. Some AT's are better at it that others.

About time someone said it I am tired of people misleading others into not playing ele/ele blaster or ele/ele controller, sapping is amazing if you understand exactly how to use it and how it works.

And lets not forget.....in the past, devs have walked very gingerly regarding sapping opponents.


Maybe with the new Incarnate system, an incarnate enhancement in say a different slot, with an incarnate END MOD...might seriously improve sapping. That's what i am hoping for with my new elec/psi....can't dominators also take a pbaoe confuse (it is not the greatest power) in the psi/mental epic pool? i wonder if that would be helpful for sapping.

I was sapping whole spawns with my elec/elec dominator prior to SO's. Now that he is lvl 23 and has SO's he drops their end even faster. It helps he has two AOE's that sap well and more then sap some.

Well, I think everything he does except Aim saps.

Electric/Therm controller using Heat Exhaustion on hard targets works nicely.

Surprised there's only one mention of the elec/kin corruptor. Yes, you will get somewhat lower debuff numbers than a Defender (and get transference later in the build) - but you will have higher damage output to assist with the hardest control of all: mob defeats.

Don't forget that with kinetics siphon power on a zero-end target, even if you're getting hit by a weak-damage power (which can still be hefty on a Boss or higher), that damage is going to be debuffed as well, which helps your survivability.