Shard drops and a major issue.


Adeon Hawkwood

 

Posted

First this is not a rant. I like to new system, and eagerly await more!

I see a disturbing trend happening since the launch of i19. Now I know that a lot of this is simply because our high end characters have a new goal to shoot for, which is awesome.

But I have noticed that the lower level players/newbies are having a difficult time starting tf's at their level. I am not immune to this either. I have found myself looking at the various chat channels I belong with; ignoring the request to do a manti, or posi simply to get the high end content for the incarnate shards.

I feel this is creating some alienation between the older community and the younger one and believe to help stop this, it would be better to at least let the common shard drops happen for those that have completed the Alpha arc at the same drop rate they are now at.

Now I would not say to go as far as granting the uncommon shards to be dropped as an reward for completion; as those should remain for high end rewards.

This way the younger group should have an easier time to get the lower end tf's going and all of 45+'s still at least get to work towards our Alpha goals.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerikko View Post
First this is not a rant. I like to new system, and eagerly await more!
No, you didn't come off as rant-ish.

Quote:
I see a disturbing trend happening since the launch of i19. Now I know that a lot of this is simply because our high end characters have a new goal to shoot for, which is awesome.

But I have noticed that the lower level players/newbies are having a difficult time starting tf's at their level. I am not immune to this either. I have found myself looking at the various chat channels I belong with; ignoring the request to do a manti, or posi simply to get the high end content for the incarnate shards.
Okay, please keep in mind that we're approximately a week out from the Issue drop. Give all the people with umpty-jillion 50's a little time to incarnate them all appropriately. Once the shiny new-ish smell wears off, and everyone's got the nice stuff, we'll see a lot more alting on lowbies again.


Quote:
I feel this is creating some alienation between the older community and the younger one and believe to help stop this, it would be better to at least let the common shard drops happen for those that have completed the Alpha arc at the same drop rate they are now at.
Again, give it time. I wouldn't make any calls about this until after the new year.



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Posted

Without a doubt it is the newness. I just think this might have been a poor choice by the devs to not include the shard drops at least for the lower end tf for the high end characters. I totally get the concept behind the choice.

I am just afraid that given the choice, long term wise, do i either run a low end or high end that some would decide for the high end.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerikko View Post
Without a doubt it is the newness. I just think this might have been a poor choice by the devs to not include the shard drops at least for the lower end tf for the high end characters. I totally get the concept behind the choice.

I am just afraid that given the choice, long term wise, do i either run a low end or high end that some would decide for the high end.
I'm not sure there is currently a system that would allow for TF critters to drop shards and not open up shard drops to all levels to someone who as it opened. They could add shards as an option for EoM rewards for TFs though.


 

Posted

Hyperstrike hit it just right.. Hey there are players out there with more than 6 years of game time under their belts and with multiple 50s on multiple servers. Suddenly all those 50 levels have something NEW to do. Something designed to make them more powerful .. make them, eventually, the equal of Statesman or Lord Recluse. Of course they are concentrating on it. I can remember what it was like when COV finally upped the maximum level a Villain could be from 40 to 50 (to match the COH heroes) and 40 level villains were rushing around desperately trying to get those next 10 levels.... about the ONLY thing any of them wanted to do with low level content was obtain all the badges they'd skipped. I made MILLIONS letting 40 levels team with me on badge missions when they discovered that now those badges they'd skipped were part of accolades that granted them added powers.

It may take a while but eventually everyone will have their 50 level all slotted with uncomon alphas and until the rare/very rare or another SLOT opens up they will go back to leveling alts.. if for no other reason than to get them to 50 so THEY can start slotting. I'm usually willing to team with anyone these days thanks to SSK but even I have turned donw or completely ignored Tells asking if I wanted to join a 43 level AV team or a Silver Mantis SF. "Hey I am in shard acquisition mode here! I don't have time for that stuff right now. See me in a month or so" :-D


Oh and speaking of badges don't forget you have the serious BADGE Hounds out there right now racing around Praetoria and all the hazard zones grabbing up all the new badges they have access to as well. The very first character I logged on when 19 went live was my badger.. My 50 level Crap Spider [Rogue] and after I got my a common slotted in my Alpha I tool time out to grab ever history, exploration, accolade, defeat and event badge in Praetoria and then made the rounds grabbing up all the new exploration badges/accolades in the hazard zones as well. And trust me I was not alone in the underground beneath Nova Preaetoria, Imperial City or Neutropolis.


�We�re always the good guys. In D&D, we�re lawful good. In City of Heroes we�re the heroes. In Grand Theft Auto we pay the prostitutes promptly and never hit them with a bat.� � Leonard
�Those women are prostitutes? You said they were raising money for stem cell research!� � Sheldon

 

Posted

Honestly I think incarnate shards should work exactly like vanguard reward merits, except they drop from everything and not just rikti.

Once a character unlocks his/her alpha slots, incarnate shards should gain the very low drop chance from everything, including low level stuff. That way, 50s could still help out lowbies and still get the chance of getting incarnate shard drops without having to feel like they're not making any progress.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by SenseiBlur View Post
Honestly I think incarnate shards should work exactly like vanguard reward merits, except they drop from everything and not just rikti.
I actually like the idea of Incarnate Shards dropping with the commonality of Vanguard merits, with Incarnate boosts having costs comparable to those of Vanguard costumes or temp powers.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
I actually like the idea of Incarnate Shards dropping with the commonality of Vanguard merits, with Incarnate boosts having costs comparable to those of Vanguard costumes or temp powers.
I would not want this; the whole idea behind Incarnate Shards and Incarnates is one of great accomplishment. By making all NPC's have the chance to drop like Vanguard merits would cheapen this experience.

The shard drops, and whatever future Incarnate stuff we get should have some sort of risk factor involved with it. Whether it be TF driven or lvl 50+ content.

A simple fix to this and to answer another issue brought up would be to flag the NPC's, (much like the Rikti are done after completing the RWZ story arcs for Vangaurd merits). A simple if player x = Alpha slot then shard drop at ???% during x TF/SF. Now how simple this would be to implement, I have no idea. My programming skills drop off after Qbasic.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
I actually like the idea of Incarnate Shards dropping with the commonality of Vanguard merits, with Incarnate boosts having costs comparable to those of Vanguard costumes or temp powers.
Wait, what?
Who the hell are you and what the smeg have you done with Samuel Tow?! O_o


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha View Post
Wait, what?
Who the hell are you and what the smeg have you done with Samuel Tow?! O_o
Seriously, that idea would make shard gathering even more grindy that it is. (Not that I think it's grindy at all, but some have said it is.)


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia View Post
Seriously, that idea would make shard gathering even more grindy that it is. (Not that I think it's grindy at all, but some have said it is.)
Exactly. Shards are anything but grindy. Just mowing down normal missions, TFs and SFs at 50 drop pretty decent numbers of shards.
VG merit levels, though? Hell to the hell No! Those things drop about once in a damn blue moon...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha View Post
Hell to the hell No! Those things drop about once in a damn blue moon...
This made me LOL

Onto the OP, whether he's correct or not, he does have a point.


- Im Not Talking Fast, You're Just Listening Slow.
- To Each His Own

 

Posted

I'd be pleased if post-alpha slot 50s could get shards on more TFs, especially the Task Force Commander sextet. That would expand the array of oft-played events.


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@vanda1 and @nakoa2

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerikko View Post
But I have noticed that the lower level players/newbies are having a difficult time starting tf's at their level. I am not immune to this either. I have found myself looking at the various chat channels I belong with; ignoring the request to do a manti, or posi simply to get the high end content for the incarnate shards.
I think once the shiny wears off this tend will go away. In fact I think it's already starting to. I ran a Hess TF this morning and filled the team in about 10minutes solely through global channels and a single broadcast in Talos.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerikko View Post
First this is not a rant.
Of course it isn't. It's quite reasonable feedback.

Quote:
I like to new system, and eagerly await more!

I see a disturbing trend happening since the launch of i19. Now I know that a lot of this is simply because our high end characters have a new goal to shoot for, which is awesome.

But I have noticed that the lower level players/newbies are having a difficult time starting tf's at their level. I am not immune to this either. I have found myself looking at the various chat channels I belong with; ignoring the request to do a manti, or posi simply to get the high end content for the incarnate shards.

I feel this is creating some alienation between the older community and the younger one and believe to help stop this, it would be better to at least let the common shard drops happen for those that have completed the Alpha arc at the same drop rate they are now at.

Now I would not say to go as far as granting the uncommon shards to be dropped as an reward for completion; as those should remain for high end rewards.

This way the younger group should have an easier time to get the lower end tf's going and all of 45+'s still at least get to work towards our Alpha goals.
For at least a couple of months the low level game is pretty much dead to me and I suspect others as well. If Issue 20 brings more of the endgame goodness, then the low level game might not be as active as it once was. However the alting game is strong here so I doubt it will be difficult to do lowbie stuff forever.


The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerikko View Post
First this is not a rant. I like to new system, and eagerly await more!

I see a disturbing trend happening since the launch of i19. Now I know that a lot of this is simply because our high end characters have a new goal to shoot for, which is awesome.

But I have noticed that the lower level players/newbies are having a difficult time starting tf's at their level. I am not immune to this either. I have found myself looking at the various chat channels I belong with; ignoring the request to do a manti, or posi simply to get the high end content for the incarnate shards.

I feel this is creating some alienation between the older community and the younger one and believe to help stop this, it would be better to at least let the common shard drops happen for those that have completed the Alpha arc at the same drop rate they are now at.

Now I would not say to go as far as granting the uncommon shards to be dropped as an reward for completion; as those should remain for high end rewards.

This way the younger group should have an easier time to get the lower end tf's going and all of 45+'s still at least get to work towards our Alpha goals.
I am actually starting to see a completely different issue present itself. The one where I have "boatloads" of incarnate salvage just sitting on my Incarnate tab with nothing to do with it until they release more Incarnate slots. I suppose I could make all those other common and uncommon boosts. You know, the ones that I will probably not ever need because the Spiritual Radial boost is everything "in-a-can" that I want so far. Was finally able to run some TF this weekend with my guildmates and with 4 TF runs got my Common boost, then the Uncommon and have enough material left over for another common boost. If I need to wait a couple months before new recipes/slots, I will be "over-flowing" with "stuff" that has no "urgent" need to be used.

In regards to your point, however, I agree with others in that it's too early to predict what the effect on the players will be. Welcome to every other MMO expansion release ! Where all the high level folks are doing their high level thing, while every one in the middle or at the beginning needs to seek players of their own level to team with. If you find that you cannot get any of your level 50 friends to hang out with you, it may be time to suggest a "Lowbie Night" for your SG, which will offer a chance to lower level members to get what they need and still feel "connected" to the Veterans. Either that, or you can form a new super group in which you specifically recruit players of your level and time-zone. This has always worked for me in other MMOs.

I don't actually want to see shards dropping on lower level content, but I would like to see the solo shard rate looked at, or perhaps a Daily Shard Mission to help the more casual players.


BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF

 

Posted

Since the Very Rare slot takes two Rares to make, it might be worth making another uncommon for when they do release them? I know I will be on Alpha.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha View Post
Since the Very Rare slot takes two Rares to make, it might be worth making another uncommon for when they do release them? I know I will be on Alpha.
Yes, but what do you make ? What pieces do you keep in storage ?

Until we know more, its all just "junk in the trunk".... sorta speak


BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF

 

Posted

If the Rare is anything like the Uncommon, then I'd say save as many shards as possible and make at least two Uncommons for every Very Rare you want. Because if a Rare Costs an Uncommon to make (hypothetical) and a Very Rare costs two Rares (Known Fact) then the components you will need to make the two Rares will probably require quite a lot of shards.

And thats not even counting the Judgement and future slots, which I would assume would use the same salvage, right? Or at least still use Incarnate shards. So...It won't be wasted, I'd hazard a guess.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerikko View Post
I feel this is creating some alienation between the older community and the younger one and believe to help stop this, it would be better to at least let the common shard drops happen for those that have completed the Alpha arc at the same drop rate they are now at.
I agree with this. I decided to start a new character, I found it hard to form a team, because "ALL" level 50 players are doing ITF, LGTF, Tin Mage, or Apex. It took me all day to find a team yesterday.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Megajoule View Post
My suggestion to the OP is to wait until January or even February of 2011 and take stock of the situation then, after things have settled out a bit.
Ah, but here in lies the problem. My guess is the issue 20 will be out around Feb/Mar. Now granted, including this month, that is 4 months from now. Yes, I agree there will be a die down factor once all our 50's get the goodies. Now of course I cannot say whether we will be getting the Judgement set or the remainder of the Alpha set at that time, but again a "grind*" hunt will begin anew with all our level 50's.

Now if, as I suspect, the rest of the Alpha slot will released shortly after the holidays are over; mid-Jan. Again the 50's will be busy doing the high end task forces. As I also suspect that Rares will be anywhere between 2 -4 Uncommon's each for 1 Rare.

Of course at this time we do not know what will be required to get the Judgement AOE's, whether it be shard drops again, or some other aspect.

Also let's not forget the new players that stick with the game till level 50, who will then want to do the high end mission, which could create a new set of players ignoring the low level newbies.

So again, I submit, that either we can earn the shards from all TF's, or a end of TF bonus (like the merits are) to help promote the low end TF's. Probably somewhere along the lines of 3 -5 Shard bonus only when the TF is completed.

Yes, I know this is mostly "worst case."







*Grind in this case is being used liberally, as I do not find the shards to be difficult to receive.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerikko View Post
Without a doubt it is the newness. I just think this might have been a poor choice by the devs to not include the shard drops at least for the lower end tf for the high end characters. I totally get the concept behind the choice.
It's not a concept issue that shards don't drop on lower level TFs, it's a mechanical issue.

Shards will only drop from level 50+ enemies, much like you can only get a purple drop from level 47+ enemies. It's not that level 50 characters can't get shard drops in lower level TFs, it's that it is impossible for them to drop at any level below 50.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.