Without temps I don't think a brute can solo an AV. Even with temps it'd probably be a bit tough.
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Because of resistance caps?
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Originally Posted by FitzSimmons
Without temps I don't think a brute can solo an AV. Even with temps it'd probably be a bit tough.
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I solo'd AV Recluse back before Envenomed Daggers. Wasn't too hard, just had to pop a few reds and two purples and hammer buttons like crazy. Took a long time.
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Originally Posted by FitzSimmons
Without temps I don't think a brute can solo an AV. Even with temps it'd probably be a bit tough.
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My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
You should easily be able to solo 49 AVs, but thats not as impressive >.<
Most brues just wont have the DPS to solo an AV because we have no debuffs (-regen or -res) without temps. But a good really high ST brute should be able to do it. Also some toons are better against certain AVs, as some AVs may already have negative res to a dmg type and may be near unkillable against others.
"I have ridden the mighty moon worm!"
-Al Gore
Fiery Aura is only good for farming, I'm cereal
@Caucasiafro
No, I mean just putting out enough sustained DPS (while maintaining endurance) to take down an AV on a brute. And there's the survival aspect as well.
I'd have to do some searching but it's possible a DM/SD has solo'd AVs before.
I'm sure some of the experts will chime in here.
I'd settle for being able to handle their damage without a healer standing behind me.
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That's not that unusual. Of course, there's a fair amount of variance amongst AVs. |
Originally Posted by Freebooter
I'd settle for being able to handle their damage without a healer standing behind me.
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Did you have an AV in mind?
I think that a great deal will depend on the IO sets and the alpha slot.
I've only got one brute, by no means an expert. But, I'm smart enough to know that Fitzsimmons is an expert, despite his comment about being sure the experts would chime in.
My brute only deals any kind of real damage when around multiple foes. If there's just one AV, I don't think 20 reds will last long enough to take one out. But, I could be wrong. Why not just try one and see?
"Most people that have no idea what they are doing have no idea that they don't know what they are doing." - John Cleese
@Ukase
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DM is probably the premiere AV soloing set. Fire Melee is good as well, but you'll most likely want a self heal.|
Originally Posted by FitzSimmons
No, I mean just putting out enough sustained DPS (while maintaining endurance) to take down an AV on a brute. And there's the survival aspect as well.
I'd have to do some searching but it's possible a DM/SD has solo'd AVs before. I'm sure some of the experts will chime in here. |
My top secondary choices would be Willpower, Invuln, Shield or SR: and any choice you make must be softcapped.
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Originally Posted by Ukaserex
My brute only deals any kind of real damage when around multiple foes.
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The Fury Changes will see you gaining more fury per attack against higher tier foes (I believe EB an up, but AV is a definite).
Do you have a build you could post? Is your attack chain seamless or nearly seamless?
I can say that personally I have no problems even against single hard targets. In those fights I'm usually at 70-75% fury.
There is no reason outside of build and player ability why the Brute AT would not be able to solo any of the melee solo-able AVs.
So while you will not be able to solo ALL AVs with any build and will need to pick and choose your battles, you can definitely solo certain handpicked AVs.
The only reason we don't see more posts about it on the forums is because Scrappers as an AT have a much better developed sub-forum and are most likely a more popular AT overall.
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Well this is a far far cry from being able to solo one. With IOs and proper inspiration usage you can stand toe to toe with any AV. I tank Recluse all the time on my Invuln tank and while the red tower's up I need to pop purples like mad but outside of that my invuln's a beast all thanks to IOs.|
Originally Posted by Freebooter
I'd settle for being able to handle their damage without a healer standing behind me.
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If you're facing a psi AV and that's the hole then just pop inspirations and/or accolades. If you want something different and you've never played a shield then I suggest either dm/sd or fire/sd. They're fun. elec/sd is fun too but doesn't do as much damage.
Enjoy.
Thanks Ukase! You're too good to me. I've never solo'd an AV on a brute. I'd never try it on a melee toon. Seems futile to me.
I have done it on my bots/traps and fire/traps (corr) and I've seen it on on an ill/rad and fire/rad (cor).
That's enough for me.
I dont think it is possable to solo an AV with a brute unless you set the lvl to -1. I could be wrong as I only play /Stone brutes so dont know about the others to well.
My Fire/Stone is set pretty nicely and can stand toe to toe with just about any AV. I use nericus's need for speed build but adjust alil for the new i19 fitness and incarnate changes etc.
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.30
http://www.honourableunited.org.uk/mhd.php
Speed Fire Purple IO 2.0: Level 50 Magic Brute
Primary Power Set: Fiery Melee
Secondary Power Set: Stone Armor
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Teleportation
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Medicine
Villain Profile:
Level 1: Fire Sword -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(5), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(11), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(42)
Level 1: Rock Armor -- GftotA-Run+(A), GftotA-Def/EndRdx(3), LkGmblr-Rchg+(9), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(13)
Level 2: Stone Skin -- ImpArm-ResDam(A), Aegis-Psi/Status(3), Aegis-ResDam(9), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx(37)
Level 4: Cremate -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(5), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(11), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(43), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(46), Zinger-Taunt/Rchg(46)
Level 6: Swift -- Run-I(A), Run-I(7), Run-I(7)
Level 8: Recall Friend -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 10: Earth's Embrace -- Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(A), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg(13), RgnTis-Heal/EndRdx(43), RgnTis-Heal/Rchg(43), Mrcl-Heal/EndRdx(45), Mrcl-Heal/Rchg(45)
Level 12: Taunt -- Zinger-Taunt(A), Zinger-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(23), Zinger-Acc/Rchg(36), Zinger-Taunt/Rchg(37)
Level 14: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), RgnTis-Regen+(15), Mrcl-Rcvry+(15), RgnTis-Heal/EndRdx(19), Mrcl-Heal(29)
Level 16: Rooted -- RgnTis-Heal/EndRdx(A), RgnTis-Heal/Rchg(17), Mrcl-Heal/EndRdx(17), Mrcl-Heal(19)
Level 18: Boxing -- Acc-I(A)
Level 20: Stamina -- P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(A), P'Shift-EndMod(21), EndMod-I(21)
Level 22: Tough -- Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(A), Aegis-ResDam(23), HO:Ribo(25)
Level 24: Weave -- GftotA-Run+(A), GftotA-Def/EndRdx(25), LkGmblr-Rchg+(29)
Level 26: Fire Sword Circle -- Armgdn-Acc/Rchg(A), Armgdn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(27), Armgdn-Dmg/Rchg(27), Armgdn-Dmg(31), Armgdn-Dam%(34), Zinger-Taunt/Rchg(37)
Level 28: Teleport -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 30: Crystal Armor -- GftotA-Run+(A), GftotA-Def/EndRdx(31), LkGmblr-Rchg+(31)
Level 32: Greater Fire Sword -- Hectmb-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(A), Hectmb-Acc/Rchg(33), Hectmb-Dmg/Rchg(33), Hectmb-Dmg(33), Hectmb-Dam%(34), Zinger-Taunt/Rchg(34)
Level 35: Minerals -- GftotA-Run+(A), GftotA-Def/EndRdx(36), LkGmblr-Rchg+(36)
Level 38: Granite Armor -- GftotA-Run+(A), GftotA-Def(39), LkGmblr-Rchg+(39), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(39), HO:Ribo(40), Aegis-ResDam(40)
Level 41: Build Up -- AdjTgt-ToHit(A), AdjTgt-ToHit/Rchg(42), AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg(42), AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx(45), AdjTgt-Rchg(46), AdjTgt-EndRdx/Rchg(48)
Level 44: Mud Pots -- P'ngTtl-Acc/Slow(A), P'ngTtl-Acc/EndRdx(48), P'ngTtl-Dmg/Slow(50), P'ngTtl--Rchg%(50)
Level 47: Aid Other -- RgnTis-Heal/EndRdx(A), RgnTis-Heal/Rchg(48)
Level 49: Aid Self -- RgnTis-Heal/EndRdx(A), RgnTis-Heal/Rchg(50)
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Level 1: Brawl -- Acc-I(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Fury
This is nericus's build. I'd paste mine but I am waiting to respec it when we get our 2nd respec on the 8th.
Okay, are you talking about soloing real AVs? Or do you mean the AVs and Heroes found in story arcs, that if solo'd are really glorified (and usually tough) EBs.
I have solo'd these EB level AVs and Heroes on many different type brutes, including SS/Invul. (Although i was really having End management problems.)
If you mean truly soloing an AV I do not think it can be done, not on a Brute. My current main is a Dark/Invul. Pimped out with 5 purple sets, 2 PvP sets, and various Procs and Globals. with this build I can tank almost any AVs. that is it, just tank. I tanked Reichsman the other night for 10 min while waiting for the team to make it back from the hospital after a wipe. I tanked Positron and Back Alley Brawler solo while the team killed another AV. I used serious inspirations for this, and thankfully it was just under 3 minutes. I do not use Unstoppable, but I was just about out of inspirations lol.
The damage per second necessary to carry the fight against an AV just is not there. Even if you built a Brute for DPS at the expense of all else, and assumed you could survive the encounter, I doubt the DPS is there to take down a full strength AV. Has anybody actually solo'd one on a Brute?
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Mostly I am looking to be able to hold my own solo, but recently on my tanker I was invited to a group that had no heals. I was thinking, "How will I be able to take the AV's damage while waiting for these guys to get back from the hospital." So while, I would -love- to be able to go back to i4 and say, "Stand back, I'll handle this!" I'd settle for, "Don't worry about me, hurry back from the hospital I'll be alive when you get here!"
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Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
Okay, are you talking about soloing real AVs? Or do you mean the AVs and Heroes found in story arcs, that if solo'd are really glorified (and usually tough) EBs.
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Go back to i4? Get into i19. Sounds like you either have a bad invuln tanker build or no invuln tanker build.
You have the toon that can just about stand up to anything in this game.
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Dark Invul is what I would tell you then. It has a heal in Dark, as well as the big heal/HP Boost in Invul. With just SOs you should be able to do a passable job tanking just about any real AV, with the exception of ones spinning out tons of Psi. My build is heavy recharge, which does not help much with tanking, and i can still do it. Invulnerability is one of the best all around sets, and Dark makes it run smoother. You could just sit back and taunt/heal (siphon life) contantly, and prob tank most any AV. Also, I run fighting toggles, that helps a lot. Creates end problems, but again, you do not have to worry about damaging these guys, just tanking them. Also, dark has a end recovery utility power, very nice. |
Originally Posted by Freebooter
Mostly I am looking to be able to hold my own solo, but recently on my tanker I was invited to a group that had no heals. I was thinking, "How will I be able to take the AV's damage while waiting for these guys to get back from the hospital." So while, I would -love- to be able to go back to i4 and say, "Stand back, I'll handle this!" I'd settle for, "Don't worry about me, hurry back from the hospital I'll be alive when you get here!"
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if you softcap Smash/Lethal defense on a dark/invul you will roar through most task forces as well.
GL
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Sure they can. My claws/SR took an AV solo (Radio, not one of the burliest, but still...). I ate a lot of inspirations (because I'm lame and didn't take the Medicine pool), but no temps were used. It just took a while to whittle him down, because the -resist from the Achilles Heel proc isn't that much of a debuff, and the rest was dps.
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Originally Posted by FitzSimmons
Without temps I don't think a brute can solo an AV. Even with temps it'd probably be a bit tough.
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My postings to this forum are not to be used as data in any research study without my express written consent.
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As another data point, I have soloed Positron and Manticore as AVs at the same time when running through The Dark Watcher's Arc (Investigate Nemesis Base is the mission) on my DM/WP Brute. I had to keep one Luck running the whole time to soft cap my defense, but I got through it without too much trouble.
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Originally Posted by EarthWyrm
Sure they can. My claws/SR took an AV solo (Radio, not one of the burliest, but still...). I ate a lot of inspirations (because I'm lame and didn't take the Medicine pool), but no temps were used. It just took a while to whittle him down, because the -resist from the Achilles Heel proc isn't that much of a debuff, and the rest was dps.
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They must've been watered down versions like BC mentioned. No way you'd be able to solo Positron as an AV.
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Originally Posted by Nicro
As another data point, I have soloed Positron and Manticore as AVs at the same time when running through The Dark Watcher's Arc (Investigate Nemesis Base is the mission) on my DM/WP Brute. I had to keep one Luck running the whole time to soft cap my defense, but I got through it without too much trouble.
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I can certainly confirm that brutes can indeed solo AV's. I solo'd Agent Indigo with my DB/WP brute about a year ago with no temps and only using a couple of insps through the entire fight. I almost solo'd AV level Aurora Borealis as well with no insps or temps whatsoever, I had her down to a sliver of life then she got in several lucky hits in a row and faceplanted me.
For the agent Indigo fight I had to use a couple of blue insps due to the length of the fight, but now with the cardiac boost I can run my 6 toggles at once and never run out of end so I might take another crack at that AV 
I've soloed almost every AV that can be faced solo-- ie not Reichsman, Romulus, or others that requirer a team to form a Strike/Tasnk Force-- with a DM/ELA. No temps, insps, Shivans, or nukes were used. The only one that I can't beat thus far is Nosferatu with his Siphon Life cycling so fast and high Negative Energy resistance. Positron is a really long fight when he floors your recharge, but completely manageable with 90% energy resistance.
The thing about ELA is that you can run the highest DPS chains, which also have the highest endurance cost, almost non-stop with the only breaks being Energize and a very occasional use of Power Sink. Electric Field will also add upwards of 15 DPS against an AV.
This was before the Fury adjustment. However, my Musculature Alpha slot has already made up for the difference in lost +damage and actually gained some.
Do people still think Brutes can't solo AVs? when did it become 2007?
And for the record, personal recomendation is Fire/Shield or Dark/Shield, although I do just fine on an SS/Elec with conservative use of small inspirations
The misinformation is really really sad....
Back in i17, i soloed about 15 different AVs ( real AV, not watered down EBs, it's easy to see the difference, it takes at least 10-15 minutes instead of 1-2) Those where without a single insps or temps. (hopkins, vandal, terra, marauder, lord of war, sky raider dude, inferal at 41 vs me at 41, citadel, president marchand, wretch, valkyrie*i kitte when she rezzed, so technically cheating*, non-rikti romulus, battlemaiden, bobcat, agent crimson, agent indigo.) Some harder like nemesis took insps (stupid PFF) and mynx i could solo but i was death set on no insps (with a few i'd win) And a rikti pylon without insps or temps. 
My WM/WP also soloed agent indigo. And my SS/invuln a few but all with insps or shivans.
With insps, i think even elec/ could solo one. Any secondary can tough at least 2-3 AVs (of the type you're good against)
Granted, all that was before i18's change to fury, wich was a clear nerf for me. Took me 35 minutes to kill a pylon instead of 15 minutes i think. Haven't tried any AVs, but i know for sure i could still do it, just slower. Actually, if i bother to get the +dam incarnate on my DM/invuln, i'd probably be more or less back to i17. (maybe end problems, since the procs were fixed)
"It's a scrapper. If he can't handle it, no one can." -BrandX
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You remember the post you asked for help with DM/invuln? I did told you the way you slotted SL and MG ( and insisting on using Shadow Maul and Obliteration...) would make a HUGE difference in DPS. If you build for DPS, you can solo full strenght AV. If you build for DPS at the expense of all else.... you'd be able to kill an AV very fast if someone is healing or buffing your def/res.
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Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
If you mean truly soloing an AV I do not think it can be done, not on a Brute. My current main is a Dark/Invul. Pimped out with 5 purple sets, 2 PvP sets, and various Procs and Globals. with this build I can tank almost any AVs. that is it, just tank. I tanked Reichsman the other night for 10 min while waiting for the team to make it back from the hospital after a wipe. I tanked Positron and Back Alley Brawler solo while the team killed another AV. I used serious inspirations for this, and thankfully it was just under 3 minutes. I do not use Unstoppable, but I was just about out of inspirations lol.
The damage per second necessary to carry the fight against an AV just is not there. Even if you built a Brute for DPS at the expense of all else, and assumed you could survive the encounter, I doubt the DPS is there to take down a full strength AV. Has anybody actually solo'd one on a Brute? |
"It's a scrapper. If he can't handle it, no one can." -BrandX
OK so I am going to make a Praetorian Brute tonight and I wanted some advice (and builds!) from the experts. I've only really played heroes before, but the villain ATs are pretty cool. I wanted to make a tank with some muscle, so I thought I'd give a Brute a swing. What's the best brute for soloing an AV. I want to be able to keep up the fight, my Invul/SS tanker burns through endurance, and if the villain has psi...well..its not pretty.
So what do you guys suggest?