APP/PPP Customization woes
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2010-11-20 21:45 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Samuel,
I know I am not the most coherent person to read so i'll just bullet point what i mean/want.
Personally I prefer to keep things as is. This is simply what i would like.
This game was developed one way for a reason, although that reason is probably lost to time it still existed. So these (mostly) new devs changing summat other ppl did would be an insult (to me if it were my original creation) the quote from harry potter seems apt here. "progress for progress sake must be discouraged"
I personally think ppl have a right to know if someone in the team is not up to scratch
I did not mean to pick a direct argument with you i just wanted to put my point across neither of us can be right or wrong. We are merely customers paying for a service. If that service is not what we want we will stop paying.
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That attitude is one that's in stark contrast to the ideals of MMOs in general. If it is unchanging, it is dead.
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Originally Posted by _gohan661_
Samuel,
I know I am not the most coherent person to read so i'll just bullet point what i mean/want. Personally I prefer to keep things as is. This is simply what i would like. This game was developed one way for a reason, although that reason is probably lost to time it still existed. So these (mostly) new devs changing summat other ppl did would be an insult (to me if it were my original creation) the quote from harry potter seems apt here. "progress for progress sake must be discouraged" |
Let's Dance!
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Yes they do, which is why we have buff bars and the character info window and the power attributes monitor. Even when everybody had the same power colors relying on the visual effects to tell what your team mates were doing was very unreliable.|
Originally Posted by _gohan661_
I personally think ppl have a right to know if someone in the team is not up to scratch
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I rarely pay any attention to the graphics of power effects but instead keep an eye on my buff bar and occasionally the buff bars of my teammates to tell how things are going. That is a much more reliable way to tell if teammates are using their powers than trying to spot the visual effects.
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Given his track record, I'm not sure Jack Emmert is not deserving of insult.
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Originally Posted by _gohan661_
So these (mostly) new devs changing summat other ppl did would be an insult (to me if it were my original creation)
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I am man enough to admit when i am wrong and this comment is very much true :P
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Originally Posted by Eiko-chan
Given his track record, I'm not sure Jack Emmert is not deserving of insult.
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See, this is an argument I can work with. Isn't that much nicer? |
Originally Posted by _gohan661_
This game was developed one way for a reason, although that reason is probably lost to time it still existed. So these (mostly) new devs changing summat other ppl did would be an insult (to me if it were my original creation) the quote from harry potter seems apt here. "progress for progress sake must be discouraged"
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I'm not a fan of fixing what ain't broke, as the saying goes. Far from it, in fact. I'm furthermore not a fan of "fixing" things that work fine for the sake of making this game more like other games because those other games sell more.
However, I don't believe customization of any kind falls in the same category of change for the sake of change. From its very beginning, City of Heroes has shined because it introduced the concept of appearance independent of power that many games have since followed. The game allowed us to make OUR characters who looked how WE imagined them to look, rather than how a developer chose for us. I often say "this is what got me into this game" about a lot of things, but there's one, single thing without which I would never have even considered buying this game. When I was researching City of Heroes prior to purchasing it back in 2004, I looked through a lot of screenshots, easily a few dozen. And in a few dozen screenshots, I was not able to see the same player character twice. The closest I got was seeing someone with a red suit jacket vs. someone with a white suit jacket.
Coming from a game like Diablo 2 where the whole game gave me a total of 5 prefab player models who look like whatever gear I happened to have put on them, this was an amazing boon. "You mean to tell me that this game has so much customization in it that no two players have to look alike? I WANT IT!" I would no longer have to look "stupid" because because the graphic artist and I did not see eye to eye as to what looked good, I no longer have to fit any one genre or theme just because a developer wanted me to... I could make MY OWN characters, and this creates the kind of personal investment in the game that no amount of time, money or effort can ever replicate. I have stayed with this game for seven years now, because I love the characters I made in it, and when I do leave eventually, I'm taking them with me. I'll be taking screenshots of all of them, copying down their bios and burning all of that stuff on multiple CDs.
As such, I see customization as by FAR City of Heroes' greatest strength. The freedom of expression and freedom of creation is, to me, the most important thing in the game, far more important than loot, gear, end game or really anything else. No amount of customization will ever be enough customization, and the more we can customize, the better it will be for the game overall. With each new customization option that the developers open up, I can usually create AT LEAST one new character, which tacks on another 200-400 hours of game time onto my schedule until I get that character to 50.
The more the customization options, the better the game is. I don't believe this is just a change for change's sake. I believe this is a genuine improvement.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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We need APP/PPP badly.
We all had the same problem, Im sure... You create a character, lets say a electric melee/ninjitsu stalker with golden electricity... If you want to go thematic and choose the Mu mastery you stuck with red lightning.
So you suck it up, you change PPP to something that doesnt broke your concept visually or you just ajust and change your original concept to red lightning to match Mu mastery. I see that as a development failure of the system they introduced with I16 power customization.
They need to finish it.
Besides, the devs have often stated that the game was not released the way it was for reasons, in fact, they have always wanted more features than actually existed. If anything, the game in it's current state is probably closer to its original vision than the original release was.
I hope the devs keep adding ways of making our characters even more unique and if that keeps players like you from snooping on me in the hopes that I might do something that they don't like, even better. Sheesh, it's a game, relax a little why don't you?
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This is what really gets me. I'm obviously not a programmer, nor do I actually know the amount of effort a change like this would take, but it SEEMS like this would be an easy fix. I know I'm necro'ing this thread, but my Elec/SR scrapper is having to take Leadership powers and a few other things, because A) there is no electric APP for scrappers and B) the red Mu lightning does NOT work with his powers.|
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
So I was mucking about with the Incarnate Power Customization last night and it got me thinking. Incarnate power customization works by letting you recolor ALL of the Judgement and Destiny powers regardless of which ones you have. It seems to me that that would be a practical solution for at least some of the pool customization issues (such as what happens with dual builds). Simply allow a character to set customization for all power pools and all epic pools for their AT regardless of which ones they are actually using.
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I know I could suck it up and just use the Mu lightning as-is, but it doesn't fit his character at all thematically...
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check out posts by Tunnel Rat: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/member.php?u=489136|
Originally Posted by Kazz
This is what really gets me. I'm obviously not a programmer, nor do I actually know the amount of effort a change like this would take, but it SEEMS like this would be an easy fix. I know I'm necro'ing this thread, but my Elec/SR scrapper is having to take Leadership powers and a few other things, because A) there is no electric APP for scrappers and B) the red Mu lightning does NOT work with his powers.
I know I could suck it up and just use the Mu lightning as-is, but it doesn't fit his character at all thematically... |
She has her own thread about FX improvements for the game: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=260438
Here are some of the things she has said in that thread:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...&postcount=113
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| Ive seen a metric ton of requests for pool/epic/ancillary powers customization. (And no, asking for it is not breaking the rules at all.) Im a long way from promises on that one, but all I can say right now is that your requests have been noted, underlined, and bolded, as have qualms with the default travel power effects. |
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(And while I can't comment on specifics for new systems like dual-auras/ dual-color auras, and a way to turn off certain power effects, I want to at least acknowledge that I've seen them and know you want them. Generally, they'd require a significant chunk of programming time, and our programmers are absolutely swamped for the time being. We won't forget about these requests, though.) ... Another factor is that FX time is shared by a lot of other tasks besides auras. We are constantly working on effects for new powers, villain groups, zones, cutscenes, storyarcs, etc. An issue full of new powers and content, like I20, doesn't always leave a lot of time to devote to auras. Still, we realize how important character customization is to our players, and we do schedule time for that. We just can't focus all our time on auras and nothing else! |
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Italics represent my clarification, Zyphoid. Hope you don't mind. Im seeing a lot of requests that would tie into Pools Customization, so let me elaborate a little on whats involved here. Most importantly, this isnt a task that requires only FX time. To implement these options into the powers customization screen, we need UI and code time. Its true that weve already added an additional heading to this screen for Incarnate powers, but that was just one heading. We will need to add several headings to the powers customization screen to implement pool powers customization. And by several, I mean more than the screen can currently support. We also need code to help us address the question of whether all of the possible ancillary, patron and regular pools are visible in the screen at character creation, or whether they are added later in the game as you choose your powers. The first option will require code time, and the second option will require more code time. Then we'll need a UI artist to revise the powers screen and make sure it's as readable and attractive as possible. I know some of you are really dying for an update on the state of pool powers customization. Being one of many people necessary for this feature, I'm not the best person to share this information. When and if there is solid information, we'll make an announcement. |
In response to the OP, I am right there with ya. My Elec^3 blaster has a purple themed costume that has pretty much become my main, simply because that purple Charged Armor clashes with the lightning-colored costume I originally designed for him.
+1 Eagerly awaiting APP and Pool power customization.
@Winter. Because I'm Winter. Period.
I am a blaster first, and an alt-oholic second.
One is forced to wonder if being able to charge, say, 800 paragon points for such customizations wouldn't increase the priority on this. I know that I've skipped entire ancillary and patron pools because the current colors clash with my character's colors, even if mechanically those pools are the best thing for me to take.
Since they can't (won't) do it without a greater incentive, maybe the greater incentive will do the trick.
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And don't forget, once the incarnate Lore slot is unlocked, all Lore pets are available for customizing at the tailor. That may be an even better example.
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Works fine for the Munitions and Mace costume parts, which are kind of an analogue to power customisation (not quite the same, I know, but damn close)
You suddenly get this new option when you pick the mace/rifle. I'm 95% sure that could be done the same with epic powers. |
I'm slowing down on my Grav/Energy and Plant/Thorn Dominators because Primal Forces can't be customised and there isn't a Body Mastery type APP for Dominators. I believe one of the Devs has said that they're interested in filling in conceptual holes in APPs... It'll probably be a really long wait though. Oh well, I have other things to play.
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Buggered if I'm paying for something that SHOULD be free....
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Originally Posted by Sun_Runner
One is forced to wonder if being able to charge, say, 800 paragon points for such customizations wouldn't increase the priority on this. I know that I've skipped entire ancillary and patron pools because the current colors clash with my character's colors, even if mechanically those pools are the best thing for me to take.
Since they can't (won't) do it without a greater incentive, maybe the greater incentive will do the trick. |
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Do or do not ... there is no try.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Buggered if I'm paying for something that SHOULD be free....
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They are either unwilling or unable to do so. It is a whiteboard idea. It may get done in a few (or five) (or seven) years, or it may never be done. If paying extra for it to be made a priority is the only way to get it done in the near future ... I'll pay.
At the moment, I'm torn between pancake'ing my character's appearance/concept/theme or pancake'ing my character's effectiveness. I am being forced to take suboptimal (in terms of effectiveness -and- in terms of enjoyment) choices because I'm unwilling to compromise my character's appearance/concept/theme. I'd rather not have to make that choice.
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This isn't entirely true. You can customize the color of the summoning FX, but not the colors of the pets themselves. Was very disappointed when I found this out first-hand.|
Originally Posted by Willowpaw
And don't forget, once the incarnate Lore slot is unlocked, all Lore pets are available for customizing at the tailor. That may be an even better example.
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If I HAD to, I would pay money for pool/epic customization. If pledging my monetary support for it was the only way to make it happen, I would begrudgingly do it. But I don't think it's something that SHOULD cost extra.
But I also think it's something that SHOULD be done either way, and should be done ASAP. It's a big gaping hole in an otherwise beautiful quilt of customization. If they haven't already, resources need to be assigned to this task immediately.
Getting color and fx customization for APP, PPP, and PP, is all well and good. But nobody seems to have mentioned the Prestige Sprints. I bought the game back when I got a Prestige Power Slide. I have since gotten the other Sprints. But I still use Slide more than any other sprint power. I just want that purple glow under my feet when I am sliding to be a different color. Whenever we get the other pools for customization, I just hope that they don't forget the Prestige Sprint Powers.
Now, I realise that you're probably aware of this precedent and don't want to see it perpetuated, but here's the rub: I do. And you're making your arguments such that the only thing I can respond to them with is just that - "I disagree." Which would be fine if this were a subject where we could agree to disagree, such as which is the best genre of Furry or which Illusion game was the best. But you're arguing that, in a roundabout way, I should expressly NOT have what I want. Can you see how I might feel a little defensive about an argument like that?
You are, essentially, arguing against me having what I want based on an assertion that isn't entirely solid. I want to argue the point with you, but the only avenue of argument you've left open for me is just that - "You're wrong!" I don't want to resort to that, but what choice do I have?