APP/PPP Customization woes


Adeon Hawkwood

 

Posted

This really smacks of a Neuron approach to design and implementation. Add something that's only half done, then abandon it and go on to add something else that's only half done, then abandon that and move on to the next new shiny.

I say this not to troll, but rather to say that it seems to me that the developers are all too focused on adding new stuff over fixing or finishing told things.


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Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

Posted

Damn I almost forget the rage I feel when I see those powers that still cant be customized.
This stopped me to playing some alts, because when I create an alt with a concept, I dont like to be forced to grab powers that look crappy, or have a different colour, or dont fit at all.
Im stuck with some of my characters, specially after inherent fitness.
I really wish I could have medicine pool, hasten, super speed, and teleport.
I hate the FX of those powers. Same for tough "Tarzan's scream and chest beating" from fighting pool. I HATE IT!
Seriously, who thought those FX were a cool idea back in the day?
Always grabbing fly or super jump is boring, but I cant stand those pools powers with the current FX.
Give us APP/PPP customization NAO, please!


 

Posted

I'm one of the few that aren't so bothered.

Khelds, well that's just the way they are. That bluey-whiteness you like really gets your washin... oh wait and the dark purple too... that's what distinguishes them and that's what they do.

With the PPP the powers are "lent" to you by your Patron. They are that colour because they are that colour. That's what you got, now live with it... and if you want to go tell Ghost Widow you don't like her as a patron because her soul extraction isn't a luminous yellowypink then good luck to you

Yes, Hasten does look HORRIBLE but nobody has to take it. It's in no way mandatory.

I'm surely in a minority but power customisation is far less significant to me than new content.



"You got to dig it to dig it, you dig?"
Thelonious Monk

 

Posted

If you had told me at the launch of Issue 16 that on the verge of i20's release we still didn't have full Power Customization I wouldn't have believed you.

I would have defended the devs saying "There's no way they'd leave one of their crowning achievements (Power Customization) unfinished like that for so long, my guess is full customization within the next 2 issues, probably sooner."

Now here we are 16 months and almost 4 issues later, Power Customization stands incomplete with the same gaping holes it had at launch. I hope this topic gets brought up again and again at PAX East, please remind them how important it is they finish Power Customization properly.


 

Posted

It's Oppressive Gloom for me. I'd probably do a green Dark Miasma at some point, but as soon as I turn on OG I look a little like Tentacle Christmas. It's just an unfortunate color clash. I'd also really like alternate Medicine options that fit a magic character. Something like Healing Flames, or the Peacebringer heals, or Empathy.

Power customization was huge in reviving my interest when I'd run out of ideas, and doing the epics and pools would be really nice. It's probably the number one thing I want at this point. (For me, my character's powers and appearance are most of the content. Story arcs and such are a lesser piece, for me.)

But I don't see the point in running down the existing appearances of the powers as they are. Wanting more creative control over appearances makes sense to me, but I wouldn't want to be the art department around here, as it seems like whenever someone asks for new power customizations, costumes, base items, etc, manners go out the window and terms like "hideous" get slung around. I don't think that helps the request get priority.


Virtue
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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarlet Shocker View Post
I'm one of the few that aren't so bothered.

Khelds, well that's just the way they are. That bluey-whiteness you like really gets your washin... oh wait and the dark purple too... that's what distinguishes them and that's what they do.

With the PPP the powers are "lent" to you by your Patron. They are that colour because they are that colour. That's what you got, now live with it... and if you want to go tell Ghost Widow you don't like her as a patron because her soul extraction isn't a luminous yellowypink then good luck to you

Yes, Hasten does look HORRIBLE but nobody has to take it. It's in no way mandatory.

I'm surely in a minority but power customisation is far less significant to me than new content.
None of those arguements hold water. I've said it before. If you really want, I'll say it again, too.


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Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Gorgar View Post
But I don't see the point in running down the existing appearances of the powers as they are. Wanting more creative control over appearances makes sense to me, but I wouldn't want to be the art department around here, as it seems like whenever someone asks for new power customizations, costumes, base items, etc, manners go out the window and terms like "hideous" get slung around. I don't think that helps the request get priority.
When people are given more control over their characters, they will make them more like what they like. When this control is taken from them 40 levels later and they are forced to use the default design which both clashes with what they made and forces them to account for it, people will resort to words like "hideous," because that's what the prospect is in comparison to their ideal vision. That's not unnatural or unexpected, nor indeed a criticism. All that says is "I like what I made so much that it physically hurts me to have to go back to what you made."


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha View Post
None of those arguements hold water. I've said it before. If you really want, I'll say it again, too.

Just because you disagree doesn't invalidate them.



"You got to dig it to dig it, you dig?"
Thelonious Monk

 

Posted

By the way, PPP powers have long since not been lent powers. Now a days you can convince a Nightwidow to help your cause as a Hero. Black Scorpion specifically says "I'll tell you some of my secrets, but not all of them!" indicating any technology he declassifies to you is yours to do what you will of it.


Playstation 3 - XBox 360 - Wii - PSP

Remember kids, crack is whack!

Samuel_Tow: Your avatar is... I think I like it

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarlet Shocker View Post
Just because you disagree doesn't invalidate them.
No, it doesn't invalidate your opinion that new content should come first (personally that would BE new content, even if it was QoL), but that doesn't make the reasons you gave good ones.

Just to use the Patron example. Alpha has the Scorpion shield power from Scorp's arc. Not because Scorpion gave it to him, but because 1)Alpha stole blueprints and schematics from him and 2) proceedewd to kick the ever-loving crap out of him to field tests and diagnostics, all while under the perfectly 'lega' vurisdiction of an Arbiter.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarlet Shocker View Post
I'm one of the few that aren't so bothered.

Khelds, well that's just the way they are. That bluey-whiteness you like really gets your washin... oh wait and the dark purple too... that's what distinguishes them and that's what they do.

With the PPP the powers are "lent" to you by your Patron. They are that colour because they are that colour. That's what you got, now live with it... and if you want to go tell Ghost Widow you don't like her as a patron because her soul extraction isn't a luminous yellowypink then good luck to you
One shouldn't mistake system limitations for lore. Far as I can tell, there's as much lore saying PPPs and EAts are fixed colors as there is for the Powers that have already gotten color customization. Just because we've never seen a Kheld that can shoot green energy blasts doesn't mean they can't exist. As to the PPPs being connected to the Patron , kind of went out the window when the started being able to grant each other's powers.


 

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Originally Posted by Shadow State View Post
One shouldn't mistake system limitations for lore. Far as I can tell, there's as much lore saying PPPs and EAts are fixed colors as there is for the Powers that have already gotten color customization. Just because we've never seen a Kheld that can shoot green energy blasts doesn't mean they can't exist. As to the PPPs being connected to the Patron , kind of went out the window when the started being able to grant each other's powers.

If the Devs had considered giving them green blasts they could have, and there's nothing I've ever seen in the lore to suggest there are any other colour variants than those existing in game.

There's no right or wrong answer to this, it's a science-fantasy game so there are arguments both for and against. None of which can be definitively proven correct. I stated my opinion and some possible explanations, and you have yours but neither is wrong, they are simply different.

The difference is that I'm far less bothered by getting those powers customised than most



"You got to dig it to dig it, you dig?"
Thelonious Monk

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
This really smacks of a Neuron approach to design and implementation. Add something that's only half done, then abandon it and go on to add something else that's only half done, then abandon that and move on to the next new shiny.

I say this not to troll, but rather to say that it seems to me that the developers are all too focused on adding new stuff over fixing or finishing told things.
Briefly, and well stated, as I concur.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarlet Shocker View Post
If the Devs had considered giving them green blasts they could have, and there's nothing I've ever seen in the lore to suggest there are any other colour variants than those existing in game.
So did they limit the color for lore or did they just have limited resources and could only make one version of the attack? To my knowledge nothing in the lore we have access to addresses the color at all, which is why lore justifications don't hold water currently. The Lore Bible very well may say that Khelds only come in one color, but we don't know that, and even if it does, what is there to be gained by sticking to that limitation?


 

Posted

sign me up for this one. Also, I find it amazing that whenever we get a new power set, it does not make it into the APPs as well. I hate that my psi/psi blaster doesnt have some willpower awesomeness to go with his psychic abilities.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
This really smacks of a Neuron approach to design and implementation. Add something that's only half done, then abandon it and go on to add something else that's only half done, then abandon that and move on to the next new shiny.

I say this not to troll, but rather to say that it seems to me that the developers are all too focused on adding new stuff over fixing or finishing told things.
Correct. Which is why we need to finish power proliferation and add Inventions where there are weak or incomplete choices (Targeted AoE) before we even think of spending the time to do pool and epic customization.


*Runs away from angry RP mob*


The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilGeko View Post
Correct. Which is why we need to finish power proliferation and add Inventions where there are weak or incomplete choices (Targeted AoE) before we even think of spending the time to do pool and epic customization.


*Runs away from angry RP mob*
I feel dirty saying this...but I agree.

<takes shower>


 

Posted

My take on things: (trivial as it may be)

I play this game for the xperience of controlling a super-powered character. I enjoy this game more than other games of the same, if not other genres, as it gives so many possibilities...but this is just a symptom. To be more exact, it gives enough of the right possibilities that by the time I'm done I can have a character that is unique enough and true enough to an idea that it can stand on its own.

Before power customization, I had to be conternt with conveying this through name, bio, and costume. The powers were hit and miss, because as an experiencial level they'd appear much the same as from another character totally different. The devs did something very cool in that now we CAN customize characters' abilities and arsenal to not just be unique and diverse, but pretty darned accurate to a concept we come up with. Granted there are limitations, but you can have many takes on the same power just with some tweaking. An earth controller can be the manipulator of rock, diamond, lava, plastic, multi-colored candy formations, large ice formations, burning coal, magical hellstone, reeking piles of manure, the list goes on. Before they'd be the guy that controls rocks.


Power pools/patron/ancillary pools are our powers too- here's where I sometimes sense a disconnect with devs at some points. These are in some way stated as being outside the player's abilities, yet still in their repituire.
...what?
Power pools/ancillary/patron abilities can be as important to a character as their primary and secondary. A fire/fire/fire character has that last x/x/fire because they can control fire in the first two spots. A fire/fire/mace character is someone who is skilled enough with technology and weaponry to know how to handle himself with both fire and a customized arachnos mace.


Just look at all the character built along the 'quick' theme. Heck, take Synapse. Give the guy superjump instead, see how his character holds up. He is defined by an extra ability. I greatly enjoy the ability to make powers from the primary/secondary 'my own,' to fit into a character's concept. I think the work done on it was exemplary, and is a subtle but main reason I still am playing- because it solidifies the experience of playing 'my character' in gameplay.

This has the downside, though, of making all the more apparent the areas where there is an exemption. A character that siphons away energy into death-dealing blasts, all in the same green color to coorelate the connection between the two...has neon orange glow when he hits his speed mode, and has e a purple glow in his energy deflection aura-why? Well, handwave it away, and try to pretend it's not there. Because his mastery over speed increase is...um...he found it on the street at level 6? No way. It's him using his energy reservs to function faster. It's his power, because he could learn it just as easily as he could learn a new energy attacks. He can get better at using it using enhancements just like he can with powers he picked at character creation.

Hey devs: you've done an awesome job at allowing us to experience play as not just unique characters, but characters that can be detailed and refined to give the experience of playing a super-powered being as fully realized as in many a comic book- let's complete that by making the last few abilities that we can learn and enhance fit the bill as much as the two sets we get at the start. The more a player can distinguish and 'claim' their character, the more they will grow attached to it. That means more time in your game playing with it- a win/win for you and your customers.

-That's my overinflated two cents anywise.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilGeko View Post
Correct. Which is why we need to finish power proliferation and add Inventions where there are weak or incomplete choices (Targeted AoE) before we even think of spending the time to do pool and epic customization.
Inventions I personally literally couldn't care less about, but I'll agree with you on Powerset Proliferation. In essence, "or that." The developers left so many additions hanging that I'd be happy if they finished up at least ONE of them.

That's actually one of my fears for the Incarnate system - it's their new shiny now, and it has the very strong prospect of butting everything else out of the picture for at least a calendar year in the future.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

Posted

Quote:
Power pools/patron/ancillary pools are our powers too- here's where I sometimes sense a disconnect with devs at some points. These are in some way stated as being outside the player's abilities, yet still in their repituire.
Err, I'm fairly sure the devs are speaking purely technically in this respect: IE. Power pools aren't handled like the other powers by the game-engine, for some reason.


"Men strunt �r strunt och snus �r snus
om ock i gyllne dosor.
Och rosor i ett sprucket krus
�r st�ndigt alltid rosor."

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arilou View Post
Err, I'm fairly sure the devs are speaking purely technically in this respect: IE. Power pools aren't handled like the other powers by the game-engine, for some reason.
Patron powers are the most obvious example of what I was talking about- these were treated as genuinely not the character's abilities, but unlike granted temporary powers the player expended power slots, could enhance them, and could customize them to do new effects with inventions. As such, I always viewed them as 'learned/borrowed' but still entirely the character's own.

In a broader sense, I was also referring to what seemed the devs' genuine surprise at the level of demand for power pool customization, which seemed to be treated more as a generic ability of a character rather than a defining attribute.

My point was simply that though there is a commonality to power pools, the way they are used in characters can very much complete the player's experience with that character, and that personalization of these 'generic' abilities can be just as important as the personalization of the primary and secondary powers.

Does that make sense? Let's face it, you'd be hard pressed to find a character without a power pools ability, or ancillary/patron power for high level characters, in a go-to power slot in their tray. They make up a great deal of how many players experience and approach gameplay, and being able to change them would be awesome. Even to the point that being able to do so could cement characters' concept within the players' experience.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilGeko View Post
Correct. Which is why we need to finish power proliferation and add Inventions where there are weak or incomplete choices (Targeted AoE) before we even think of spending the time to do pool and epic customization.


*Runs away from angry RP mob*
Nothing like abandoning one of the games biggest achievements.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
Inventions I personally literally couldn't care less about, but I'll agree with you on Powerset Proliferation. In essence, "or that." The developers left so many additions hanging that I'd be happy if they finished up at least ONE of them.

That's actually one of my fears for the Incarnate system - it's their new shiny now, and it has the very strong prospect of butting everything else out of the picture for at least a calendar year in the future.
I'm still waiting to make my Spines/Ice Scrapper, my Warmace/Shield Defense Scrapper, my Dual Blades/Ninjitsu Scrapper, and soooo many more.


Playstation 3 - XBox 360 - Wii - PSP

Remember kids, crack is whack!

Samuel_Tow: Your avatar is... I think I like it

 

Posted

Rather than being able to customizing APP or PPP I'd rather be able to turn off the obnoxious effect of Hasten.

Not that I don't want to be able to adjust the colors of the epic pools, but the Hasten effect is just to egregious to allow to continue any more.


Uber Talgrim - level 50 emp/dark defender
Uber Rod - level 50 dark melee/regen scrapper
Rod Valdr - level 50 invuln/SS tanker
Talgrim - level 50 ninja/dark mastermind

OMG!! Please add these costume designs now!

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by bAss_ackwards View Post
I'm still waiting to make my Spines/Ice Scrapper, my Warmace/Shield Defense Scrapper, my Dual Blades/Ninjitsu Scrapper, and soooo many more.
I have to agree here. For years I wanted to make an Axe/Shield Scrapper, and had to eventually make do with an Axe/Shield Brute on the hero-side, which really isn't the same thing. I've been waiting for Scrappers and Stalkers to get ice powers, and really - isn't ice just perfect for Stalkers? Debilitating effects out the wazoo, the ability to make bladed weapons out of ice, and even probably the ability to turn into clear ice or coat yourself in light-refracting ice gives you a stealth/hiding skill.

There is still so much left to proliferate, and when was the last time we proliferated anything?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.