Still Trying to Make Sense in Justifying Getting IO Sets in the Early Levels


Adeon Hawkwood

 

Posted

This has always been an issue of mine trying to figure out what the true benefit of getting IO sets well before level 50? I know that if I cannot afford to purchase them, I usually settle on SO's which always have a set price range. I ask this as I see a lot of other toons out there who when I view their powers, I see tons of set bonus for toons that are well under level 50. Based on what paragonwiki says: "Both Invention Origin Enhancement categories always provide the same bonus to a power, regardless of character level - they never expire as a character advances in levels, and a lower level IO can still be slotted by a high level character. Generally though, the higher the level of the IO, the higher the benefit that it gives. A level 50 Invention Origin Enhancement provides approximately 27% more benefit compared to an even-level Single Origin Enhancement, and is less than 11% better than a +3-level SO."

With that being said, it does state that the higher the level of the IO, the higher the benefit that it will give. So, why would I spend 5 million influence for a level 25 Efficacy Adaptor when if I wait till I hit level 47, can pick-up a 50 IO and get more bang for my buck? I am thinking that people who buy IO's early and being that most IO's are staggered by level increments of 5, one would wait either every 5 levels to upgrade their IO's or 10 levels? This, in turn, would give them more benefits early on without having to suffer through the early stages until they reach 50, not sure if this is the mindset here? If someone can clear this up for me and tell me if and when I can afford to do so, buy IO's early on and how I should "stagger" this meaning, if I buy a level 25 IO for my level 22 Blaster, should I then wait until level 30 or 35 before I decide to upgrade that same IO? Thanks.







 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fusion_7 View Post
So, why would I spend 5 million influence for a level 25 Efficacy Adaptor when if I wait till I hit level 47, can pick-up a 50 IO and get more bang for my buck?
Because you'll lose that bonus if you exemplar down past a certain threshold.

If you're only going to play at 50, then that's no biggie.
If you like to exemplar and you want to keep your bonuses, the level of the IO will play a part in your purchasing decisions.


The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.

My City Was Gone

 

Posted

Also, while IOs that give an enhancement bonus do give a higher bonus the higher the level of the IO (for instance, Damage, Accuracy, Defense,etc.), proc IOs don't necessarily do so. For instance, a Mako's Bite damage proc works exactly the same, whether you have a level 30 or a level 50 version of that IO. However, if you exemp below level 47, you'll lose the proc if you chose the level 50 one, but wouldn't lose the level 30 proc until you exemp below level 27.


Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson

"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn View Post
Also, while IOs that give an enhancement bonus do give a higher bonus the higher the level of the IO (for instance, Damage, Accuracy, Defense,etc.), proc IOs don't necessarily do so. For instance, a Mako's Bite damage proc works exactly the same, whether you have a level 30 or a level 50 version of that IO. However, if you exemp below level 47, you'll lose the proc if you chose the level 50 one, but wouldn't lose the level 30 proc until you exemp below level 27.
I don't think this is accurate

LF wiki link


 

Posted

The other reason is that Frankenslotting level 30ish IOs can give you quite a bit more power than using SOs or generic IOs. I rarely bother to do it because I am chronically lazy but I do it in a few cases where the effort is worth it to me. A simple example is my Earth/Storm Controller. I added a pretty simple Frankenslot to his two single target mezzes since I wanted maximum damage while still being able to enhance a bit for mez. Compared to my previous 3Dam/1Acc/1End/1Rech slotting I was able to maintain or increase my previous values while adding in about 1.3 SOs worth of mez enhancement.

I limited myself to buying whatever yellow recipes were on the market so I didn't spend a whole lot on it.


 

Posted

Ahhh...my bad then. So then why do people always go for the lower-level procs?


Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson

"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn View Post
Ahhh...my bad then. So then why do people always go for the lower-level procs?
The only reasons I know of is so that you can slot them sooner and because people get mixed up about them


 

Posted

Generally, I find that the important aspects of the enhancements are well covered by anything from level 30 and up - higher levels just end up having more value eaten by ED, although the secondary aspects may end up with better value at higher IO levels. For example in attacks I like to have 95% damage and at least 50% accuracy; and level 30 IO sets achieve this easily. Higher levels will get me better values on endurance reduction and recharge, but I find that the amount of difference is negligible to my style of play.

Also - my 50's don't get all that much play. I run them in task forces, or sometimes when I really feel like playing one of them, but I tend to like to level new characters rather than playing my old ones, so IO'ing at lower levels means that I have more tools available when I need them, rather than just at the end game where I don't play often.

Lastly, one strategy that some find effective is to frankenslot early to maximize enhancement value while slots are tight, then respec into a final build once you hit your desired level. For example, slotting Air Bursts and Detonations, or Ruins and Tempests can be done for a fraction of the cost of more desired sets, and achieve better enhancement value than SO's with lower investment in slots.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn View Post
Ahhh...my bad then. So then why do people always go for the lower-level procs?
The lower the level, the earlier you can slot 'em.


The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.

My City Was Gone

 

Posted

Oh yeah. And the reason that I have been gettin low level procs--so that I can keep the set bonus when I mal down


 

Posted

I don't see much point either. Basically, here is my rule of thumb - if this new character is not in her/his lvl 35+, then I probably don't feel the need to buy sets because I don't like him that much anyway.

I don't see why I need low level sets. Some unique and procs are great but that's about it. Who's buying lvl 20 sets? I just dump them.

I also don't see any TF/SF that are so hard that I need set bonuses at that level range that are below lvl 30.

I can see people buying lvl 30 sets for Siren Calls and that's about it.


What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.

 

Posted

I have a build with a bunch of lvl 25 and lvl 27 enhancements so I can keep my set bonuses when I do low level SFs


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jibikao View Post
I also don't see any TF/SF that are so hard that I need set bonuses at that level range that are below lvl 30.
I don't see any TF/SF that is so hard that I need set bonuses period. Just because I don't need them doesn't mean I don't want them.

And I like that my Energy Aura brute soft is soft capped when exemped as far as level 27, even with exemplar scaling. Necessary? No. But it does make that character much more fun at lower levels.


 

Posted

Personally, I IO my tunes at level 32 with level 35 IO sets. This gets me a huge chunk of bonuses and SO level performance that gets me to level 50 feeling 'super'.


Make a man a fire and keep him warm for the day, SET a man on fire and keep him warm for the rest of his life.
Incarnates: K'lir(Fire/Dark Corr):Hot-House Flower(Plant/Fire Dom):Kinrad X(Kin/Rad Def):Itsy-Bitsy Spider(Crab):Two Ton Tony(Mace/WP Broot):Teeny Weeny Widow(Fortunata/Widow) : Zeroth Law (Ice/Fire Tank)

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dying_Breath View Post
I don't see any TF/SF that is so hard that I need set bonuses period. Just because I don't need them doesn't mean I don't want them.

And I like that my Energy Aura brute soft is soft capped when exemped as far as level 27, even with exemplar scaling. Necessary? No. But it does make that character much more fun at lower levels.
You can have them!! Nobody is stopping you!! I just don't see the need. If my character is past lvl 35, then I may feel like I want to make him/her strong with sets. Below lvl 30, nah, I don't feel the need and it's too early to tell. That's my own rule.


What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jibikao View Post

I also don't see any TF/SF that are so hard that I need set bonuses at that level range that are below lvl 30.
There are currently no TFs at any level that are so hard that you need any set bonuses at all so that logic doesnt hold up.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jibikao View Post
I also don't see any TF/SF that are so hard that I need set bonuses at that level range that are below lvl 30.
I don't need ketchup with my fries either, but...


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn View Post
Ahhh...my bad then. So then why do people always go for the lower-level procs?
The same reason to get any low level IO set: To keep the bonus when exemped. Unless people are slotting a single proc IO and nothing else from the set. Then I have no clue.

I myself just slotted a lvl 50 Stealth IO in Sprint last night, but it's the only thing I intend to slot in Sprint, so I really don't care what level it is. However, I do exemp a lot with either AE, to help friends, or more likely, Ourobors...Orobosus...Oro...Flashback Missions. That's why I personally like to get lvl 30 sets, so that all my set bonuses last all the way down to lvl 27.


We often sit and think of you,
We often speak your name;
There is nothing left to answer,
But your photo in the frame.
-Anon.

 

Posted

In my case, I Frankenslot starting with L25-L28 IO set pieces as soon as I
can get them for a few reasons.

1> It beats +3 SOs performance-wise. Two dual aspect L25's (ie. Acc/Dmg)
outperform a +3 Acc SO and a +3 Dmg SO (40% > 38.3%)

2> You can get several helpful bonuses in addition to better performance
(for instance, 2 Bruising Blow IO's gives you a small End Recovery Bonus
for free)

3> You can effectively maximize core attributes of a power in only 5 slots.
In an attack, I can get 60% Acc, 95% Dmg *and* an SO or more worth of
Erdx and Rch in just 5 slots (not even counting the set bonus perks).

4> As others mentioned, the bonuses exemplar well - for me, I like to have
bonuses for Bloody Bay and Ouroboros. Others want them for TF's as well

5> Once I complete a power, I don't *ever* have to look at it again. I get
20-25 levels of consistent, reliable performance (unlike SO's which have
a choppy, sawtooth performance pattern as you level).

6> It's cheaper... WAY cheaper than putting in L50 Sets.


My Conclusion:

The basic premise is that I get far better performance, far sooner, for a
far better price, for the longest part of the toon's playing career, than I
could by waiting till higher level.

As a predominantly solo player, that is a hands down, no-brainer win in my book...


Regards,
4


I've been rich, and I've been poor. Rich is definitely better.
Light is faster than sound - that's why some people look smart until they speak.
For every seller who leaves the market dirty stinkin' rich,
there's a buyer who leaves the market dirty stinkin' IOed. - Obitus.

 

Posted

Not everyone powerlevels to 50. If I only slotted level 50 IOs, then I'd have exactly two characters with IOs. Personally, I slot IOs at 32 (because that's when level 35 IOs become usable).


Arc #40529 : The Furies of the Earth

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn View Post
Ahhh...my bad then. So then why do people always go for the lower-level procs?
Honestly, my reason is that they are usually considerably cheaper. I guess not enough people know they are useful for their price to be really high.

I also tend to use the IOs I pick up myself, instead of buying them, which is why I end up with a lot of Frankenslotting and low level IOs. There's no reason I can't go ahead and trade in on a higher level one later. And again, the lower levels are usually cheaper, although ultimately it comes down to shopping around. You can usually find a really good deal if you check a bunch of recipes in a 10-20 level range.


 

Posted

There are several reasons to buy at least some IOs early:

1) Price. Crafting a level 25 or 30 generic IO costs more than buying a SO. However, it costs significantly less than buying a SO and then replacing it every five levels. You can slot a generic IO and never bother with that slot again until (and unless) you decide to go with a set.

2) Convenience. IOs never lose strength or go red and stop working when you level mid-mission.

3) Gloabal IOs really help at low levels. In particular, getting a low level Kismet 6% to-hit IO (it's called accuracy, but it gives a to-hit bonus) and dropping it in Combat Jumping or Hover makes the teen levels a lot more fun since you miss less. Likewise a KB resist IO makes a huge difference if you don't have a -KB power.

4) Frankenslotting. Instead of worrying about set bonuses, just slot dirt cheap set IOs with lousy bonuses to get the best possible enhancement values. You can often buy the recipe for a few thousand inf or less, and as long as you pick yellow recipes with no rare salvage required you can craft it cheap too. And like generic IOs, once you do you can ignore those slots forever, or until you upgrade to higher end sets. You can get an extra 2-3 SOs worth of enhancement out of six slots that way, or get a full six slots worth of enhancement out of around four. And it's still cheaper than buying new SOs every five levels.

As far as high end sets go, I'd suggest slotting them around the lowest level you plan to exemp to regularly (assuming you can afford them) so you keep the bonuses. Actual level 50 IOs are a huge rip-off since their crafting costs are so high and you can't exemp down below 47 with them... it's a lot cheaper and really just as effective (thanks to ED) to slot mid 30s IOs instead. The exception is that it is handy to slot two level 50 generics at times since that's almost as good as 3 SOs... you can save a slot in powers like Hasten or Build Up. Also, level 50 set IOs do have the advantage of being readily available, but it's worth taking a few days to bid on lower level ones if you like to exemp down and run TFs.


Cascade, level 50 Blaster (NRG/NRG since before it was cool)
Mechmeister, level 50 Bots / Traps MM
FAR too many non-50 alts to name

[u]Arcs[u]
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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn View Post
Ahhh...my bad then. So then why do people always go for the lower-level procs?
People don't always go for them, but they are willing to pay a premium for the low level ones to slot in low-level characters.

I don't think I would slot most damage procs and the like in a low-level character, but I slot low-level Performance Shifters and Stealth, Miracle and Numina uniques in low-level characters frequently. (Numina and Miracle uniques follow the same rules as procs - they're functionally procs with a 100% chance to trigger and no suppression.)


Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA