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WHAT?! no, say this isn't true ! |
Originally Posted by Chaos Creator
I'm going to throw this out because its something you might not know.
Issue 19 does away with publicly seeing set bonuses. Come I19 it will be impossible to know who is purpled and who is not. |
but that's most of the reason why I bother to slot my toons at all! much less purple them out
dang, this made me more depressed than when I learned that ketchup really isn't a vegetable
Card Carrying DeFulmenstrator--Member Crazy 88s
We burn more Influence before 8am than you make all day.
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Originally Posted by Misaligned
Re: The PvP 3% def IO
Personally, I'm baffled. Yes you get 3% def at any level. Yes you get 10% chance for teleport resistance. Yes, you can slot it in addition to a steadfast 3% def. And yes, it can potentially save you up to 4 slots in a very tight build. Personally, I just don't see it being worth it - not even at 100 mil. But then again, I never had a problem selling the 2 I have gotten for over the 2 billion mark.  |
Example with maths. Otherwise maxed out character. Defense allotment: 35% melee, 22% both ranged and AoE. Already has the Steadfast +3% slotted.
Current average damage avoided: Melee = 70%, Ranged/AoE = 44%/44%
Average damage avoided after adding 3% more to all positions: 76%/50%/50%
So I'm taking, on average, only 80% as much melee damage as before and 90% as much ranged and AoE damage. Assume for a moment that 2/3 of all damage you take is melee damage (my example here is a melee character), so we can weight this (yay, more averaging) and get 80%*2/3 + 90% * 1/3 = 5/6.
If I'm taking 5/6ths as much damage on average, and I was previously playing on settings where I was usually just shy of dying frequently, I can now turn up my settings so that I'm taking on 6/5ths or 120% as much damage and still not die. So I can survive more stuff at once, or keep the amount of stuff the same, and fight versions of it that do up to 20% more damage per blow.
For someone who doesn't care about pushing the envelope like that, it's totally and completely not worth it. The people who want that are like the CoH version of street car tweakers. We'll do just about anything for that last edge, because we just want to go faster.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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Aaughh!! Stop it, stop it! Next thing, you'll tell me there's no tooth fairy either.
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Originally Posted by _23X_
ketchup really isn't a vegetable
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Your parents buy the presents.|
Originally Posted by Intrinsic
Aaughh!! Stop it, stop it! Next thing, you'll tell me there's no tooth fairy either.
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There really is a monster under your bed... all the way down to Korea..
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here's hoping!
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Originally Posted by TamakiRevolution
Pretty sure that's a bug, and not WAI.
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The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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I use the market, but do not speculate, and still managed to get a billion inf on one character just to be able to say that I had done it. Soon as that was done, I spent it within the week. The long term value of inf is still trending down. |
Originally Posted by FourSpeed
Simply put, if you want to be able to buy from the "Desirable Commodities" category, then you really do have get involved (to some degree) with the market.
I don't find that problematic, and in fact, I'd speculate that it's WAI and exactly what the devs wanted to occur (ie. Get the basics from Vendors and the Good Stuff from the Market). |
It does take a mental step that some people are slow to make, from seeing the shocking prices on the market, to the realization that some drop I got and will not use might command one of those shocking prices and make me the fortune I need to get started.
What is the value of the Gladiator 3% Def enhancement in other game terms? By my reckoning, it can now be purchased at a vendor for:
1,500,000,000 inf
1800 reward merits
30 days play time.
Alternatively, you can grind for it 60 days and buy it without the cash or reward merits, and this may be the easier path. But if people start spending 1,500,000,000 inf routinely for it, that would probably take a bite out of the inf glut.
<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison
Just to prove I disagree with Goat sometimes, I'm glad they're removing the set bonus info. Because gosh darn it, it's untidy and hard to interpret. D:
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you right they should sort and colour code the bonuses and maybe add something like WOW look how awesome you are! after your 10th Ultimate bonus |
Originally Posted by Talen Lee
Just to prove I disagree with Goat sometimes, I'm glad they're removing the set bonus info. Because gosh darn it, it's untidy and hard to interpret. D:
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my ego needs a lot of stroking ....
Card Carrying DeFulmenstrator--Member Crazy 88s
We burn more Influence before 8am than you make all day.
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I'd just as soon see it go myself. We need gear scores here like we need damage parsing meters: not at all.
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Originally Posted by Talen Lee
Just to prove I disagree with Goat sometimes, I'm glad they're removing the set bonus info. Because gosh darn it, it's untidy and hard to interpret. D:
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<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison
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Isn't that a circular argument?|
Originally Posted by Heraclea
I wouldn't say that I ignored it. But if you are selling drops, at least by my way of thinking you are "playing the market minigame", which I do think is necessary to participate meaningfully and get anything good from it.
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If you want to buy stuff on the market you have to "play the market minigame" (i.e. sell stuff on the market).
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
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Completely different set of circumstances. Gearscore in CoH, if it existed, would be little more than a novelty. I'd love to have a damage meter, mostly for curiosity, but most fights don't last long enough to warrant one.
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Originally Posted by Heraclea
I'd just as soon see it go myself. We need gear scores here like we need damage parsing meters: not at all.
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Well, sort of. By my broad definition, anyone who wants to buy on the market has started playing the market minigame as well.|
Originally Posted by Ironblade
Isn't that a circular argument?
If you want to buy stuff on the market you have to "play the market minigame" (i.e. sell stuff on the market). |
But it's called a "market", you say it, I say it. To the noob (and may there always be noobs among us. amen and alleluia) this suggests a shop not much different from an in game vendor. What they find instead will startle them.
The game is actually steeply costly if you buy and sell only to vendors. Until the market was added and I started selling stuff on it, it was difficult to keep a character's DO and SO enhancements out of the red. You'd play your level 50s a long time waiting for the buttons that could get your important stuff to level 53.
The progress from "Man, this stuff is expensive!" to "Some of those drops I got fetch a nice price" has to make a save against interruption, and often doesn't make it, particularly if you are under the startled debuff.
<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison
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Only if they've never gone near an MMO in their lives.
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Originally Posted by Heraclea
But it's called a "market", you say it, I say it. To the noob (and may there always be noobs among us. amen and alleluia) this suggests a shop not much different from an in game vendor. What they find instead will startle them.
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The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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Did I mention that they were noobs?
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
Only if they've never gone near an MMO in their lives.
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<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison
Outside of a few people who've been playing CoH for years, I've never seen anyone think that the in-game market in an MMO should work like a store.
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Or bothered to click on the NPCs at WW and the BM who will explain exactly how it works.|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
Only if they've never gone near an MMO in their lives.
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I mean, I have sympathy for new players, especially players who have little MMO experience. CoX was my first MMO, too. However, that meant that when I found something new that I didn't understand, I looked for a source of info, and there it was, right inside the market itself. Not only that, but I'd been specifically pointed towards it at the end of the IO tutorial.
Arc#314490: Zombie Ninja Pirates!
Defiant @Grouchybeast
Death is part of my attack chain.
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Agree.|
Originally Posted by Grouchybeast
Or bothered to click on the NPCs at WW and the BM who will explain exactly how it works.
I mean, I have sympathy for new players, especially players who have little MMO experience. CoX was my first MMO, too. However, that meant that when I found something new that I didn't understand, I looked for a source of info, and there it was, right inside the market itself. Not only that, but I'd been specifically pointed towards it at the end of the IO tutorial. |
I sympathize being new and not understanding, even not wanting to use a feature of a game, but I do not sympathize not bothering to learn or crying because of refusing to use an existing feature.
That said, I'd like to see better prices for certain items when bought with merits because often it is downright stupid to buy an item with X number of merits when you could get a much more valuable item for the same merits, sell it and buy a dozen of the things you actually wanted. The result would be that those who do not want to touch the market with a ten feet pole could get their own items a bit more effectively, while still being slower at it than those who make use of all the features offered to them. This would be very hard to implement correctly, though, because what's valuable today might be junk tomorrow...
- @DSorrow - alts on Union and Freedom mostly -
Currently playing as Castigation on Freedom
My Katana/Inv Guide
Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either. -Einstein
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At the risk of repeating myself, like you do at the 18,000 post mark: I think that the "first AM costs 20 million" probably took a bite out of the inf glut. (order-of-magnitude guess: If an average of 1 AM per player got converted, at 50K players, that's a trillion inf gone. I would also guess there's on the order of 100 trillion inf in the game, so we've still got some work to do.) |
Originally Posted by Heraclea
[...]
What is the value of the Gladiator 3% Def enhancement in other game terms? By my reckoning, it can now be purchased at a vendor for: 1,500,000,000 inf 1800 reward merits 30 days play time. Alternatively, you can grind for it 60 days and buy it without the cash or reward merits, and this may be the easier path. But if people start spending 1,500,000,000 inf routinely for it, that would probably take a bite out of the inf glut. |
If even a third of the AM's for a PVP IO come from reward merits, that's half a billion. Which is a nice chunk of change and I'm glad to see it gone. But there's SUCH a backlog of inf to get through.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
I'm going to chime in that yes, the game needs a serious inf sink.
The simplest in my mind is a new vendor that sells anything and everything as recipes only(to keep the salvage markets goin' strong).
Prices are set in this vendor based upon prices in the market.
Adjust as often as required.
If the Dev's want to pull money out of the game, set prices at the vendor well below Wentworth prices. (Say, 80 percent.) Went's comes to a screeching halt, money pours out like a flood.
If the Dev's want to go back to the status quo, set prices at the vendor well above Went's prices. (Say, 150 percent.) The new vendor is now effectively absent.
The tricky part is parity. Namely, tweaking vendor versus market prices (with ebil marketeers gaming like mad) so that the amount of money being drained roughly matches the global inf generation rate.
Would this be impossible? I seriously doubt it. Heck, I don't think it would even be terribly difficult.
Adding new currencies isn't working, time for a dose of real medicine.
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Which means what to you, that they're supposed to have an immediate, intuitive understanding of how all the game systems work without having to explore them?|
Originally Posted by Heraclea
Did I mention that they were noobs?
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The market is a very simple system. The in-game help provides ample guidance to get started. The pretense that it presents an impossibly complex face to new players is comical.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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I'd go one step further: The market itself is one of the most intuitive aspects of the game as a whole. It's endlessly amusing to me that some players (not necessarily Heraclea) will complain that the Market is too complicated for them to earn the shiny IOs -- but they completely gloss over the fact that the IO system is about a thousand times more complicated than the Market is.|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
Which means what to you, that they're supposed to have an immediate, intuitive understanding of how all the game systems work without having to explore them?
The market is a very simple system. The in-game help provides ample guidance to get started. The pretense that it presents an impossibly complex face to new players is comical. |
Granted, a full understanding of the Market will require an understanding of IO sets, but the latter is by far the higher bar to entry. If Mids' didn't exist, how many players would realistically even be able to think of a min/max IO build?
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Nice build
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I think a big cause of inflation is that there is no way to generate salvage and recipes without also generating inf. A way of generating recipes or salvage while *sinking* inf (something as simple as "200 inf gets you random piece of salvage, Arcane or Tech, any tier, any rarity") would go a ways towards alleviating that.
Character index
It has obviously been a long time since you guys have been new to the game. While I agree that the premise is pretty simple, (Put stuff on market sell for what you think you can get) it is more complicated than that.
I have been playing 18 months and for the first year or so I tried to use the market, wondering why I could never get my stuff to sell or if it did why I didn't seem to make much money when I did.
There is a layer of complexity involved in reading the last 5 sales, trying to determine the flippers from the buyitNAOs, calculating the price based not on just the last five but number of bidders, items for sale, and how fast items sell and lastly having some idea of what an item should be worth regardless of what the last 5 sold for. Add into that market craziness caused by in game events and players doing counter profit activities and you have quite a few factors that the Went's NPCs don't brief you on.
I'm not saying it's impossible to learn it. It isn't. But you can't learn it from the tutorials. You either trial and error you way through until you figure it out or come to the forums and read the guides. (The guides are much quicker)
If the market is so simple, why in the world do you guys write all these guides?
The market is simple, but the implications of the market aren't simple, and a lot of people have a hard time going from a description of an abstract thing to a reasonable course of action for relating to it. Not everyone enjoys thinking for its own sake...
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA