I'll be going for the end redux/resist, no contest.
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Originally Posted by BunnyAnomaly
This post above raises a very good point. Will the Alpha slot act like a set bonuses (improved healing) which does not influence regeneration rates at all, or will it at like an additional enhancement slot in all of your powers, in which case it will?
I was under the impression it is exactly like adding that "Alpha Enhancement" to every single power individually. The reason I ask for clarification is that the previous point about Healing Flames/Fire Tanks is only relevant to global set bonuses (which I might test later today on Build 2 of my /Fire Brute). |
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Originally Posted by Sailboat
But...global healing bonus doesn't affect Healing Flames because it gives resistance (in this case, to Toxic).
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Originally Posted by Call Me Awesome
And there's lots of players with a bone to pick about that little gotcha, myself included back before we (or I at least) knew about that. It does kind of limit the usefulness of a healing bonus on a large number of sets that may have heals but also get another bonus along with the heal.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
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And you save yourself those couple billion you'd otherwise need to spend on the glad armor +3% def.|
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
17 * 1.56 = 26.52, for a whopping increase of slightly less than 3% Defense. Hmmmmm...
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Originally Posted by Sailboat
But...global healing bonus doesn't affect Healing Flames because it gives resistance (in this case, to Toxic).
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Originally Posted by Tired Angel
So I would assume that the Healing aspect of that particular Alpha Enhancement will affect Healing Flames because it doesn't work the same way as IO bonuses.
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A few minor conditions.|
Originally Posted by Exxar
And you save yourself those couple billion you'd otherwise need to spend on the glad armor +3% def.
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If you have a defence set it's very easy to soft cap anyway, and I'd say for 99.9% of characters it is not saving you 3 billion. What's probably more realistic is that you can find up to three sets that will grant recharge. I selected 3 as the approximate because your sets will net you approximately 3% defence each time (Kinetic Combat: 3.75%, Reactive Armour: 3.75%). Assuming quantity of slotting remains the same, it might amount about 15% recharge. Now these are just very ballpark observations but I would much prefer 45% recharge as inherent to everything (1/3 of which is subject to ED) than 15% recharge. Naturally... it will depend on how you build (both for how many slots you save in defence, and if they can even be turned over into recharge successfully).
The other is that there is a serious problem with building purely with the Alpha Slot in mind. Once you exemplar down, you lose those bonuses. You'll be at ~42% defence. Some terrible examples are that you might have not chosen sets for Endurance Reduction and are relying on the Alpha Slot for that. That will really cripple your build.
It will not at all surprise me if min-maxers end up making a 50 build and an exemplar build, because to take full advantage of the Alpha Slot you're likely to adjust the way you build from the beginning.
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From what I can tell (Aside from healing flames) it should be increasing your (Inherent) Health power enhancements a little past the ED cap, which will be increasing your Regen.|
Originally Posted by BunnyAnomaly
This post above raises a very good point. Will the Alpha slot act like a set bonuses (improved healing) which does not influence regeneration rates at all, or will it at like an additional enhancement slot in all of your powers, in which case it will?
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However, it will not increase any set bonuses, all it does is add enhancements to all your powers, whether they have those ehanceable stats or not.
I'm most looking foward to see how it effects EA for defense, because any increase in percentage gets increased by 10 at its target cap.
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Ah. Well, they've certainly muddied the waters terminologically. If they aren't global set bonuses but are bonuses to your entire character (and thus "global") they really ought to specifically up-front SAY "they aren't global set bonuses" in that announcement.|
Originally Posted by Exxar
Exactly. Alpha slot bonuses are not set bonuses, they behave as enhancement bonuses directly slotted into all of your powers, so the spiritual ones are a godsend to FA toons.
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Just relying on the official word so far, if it wasn't for the clarifications you guys have made here (assuming, of course, those clarifications are correct), I wouldn't have the faintest idea how these things actually work.
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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Eh, depends. The Recharge could be good, as could the +resistance and -end. I might slowly work toward both, as you can slot and unslot these without losing them. |
Originally Posted by Exxar
Exactly. Alpha slot bonuses are not set bonuses, they behave as enhancement bonuses directly slotted into all of your powers, so the spiritual ones are a godsend to FA toons.
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Either could work, though, as one makes it so you take less damage over time, the other let's you heal more damage over time. *shrugs*
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Originally Posted by Sailboat
Ah. Well, they've certainly muddied the waters terminologically. If they aren't global set bonuses but are bonuses to your entire character (and thus "global") they really ought to specifically up-front SAY "they aren't global set bonuses" in that announcement.
Just relying on the official word so far, if it wasn't for the clarifications you guys have made here (assuming, of course, those clarifications are correct), I wouldn't have the faintest idea how these things actually work. |
Anyway, this does make a good difference. It's not worth going for the defense boosts on a set with no inherent defense (or only Weave). Same thing for resists, etc.
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
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Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
Okay, someone I think asked what an Ice Tanker could be looking at with all of their powers, so here ya go:
Base Armors: 17%
Wet Ice: 1% (unenhanceable, probably even the Alpha slot won't be an exception to that)
EA: 1.6% - 7%
So, from 1 to 10 enemies, base, you've got:
19.6% - 25% Defense base.
Slotted with even-level SOs (1.56% enhancement):
30.016% - 38.44% Defense.
With SOs and the Alpha Slot:
32.1222% - 42.448% Defense.
Almost at the soft cap without any additional powers, provided enough enemies. With the +3% Def IO, you're above the soft cap without any additional powers.
However, here's where it gets good: Pool Powers. Since the Alpha Slot will increase pool powers as well, An Ice Tanker is unlikely to have to slot for Defense sets to a large degree.
Combat Jumping: 2.5% Defense base on a Tanker. Most people don't slot this much at all. So, we'll put a single SO on this power, bringing it up to 3% Defense. The Alpha slot will not be impeded by ED at all on this, so it'll give the Tanker 3.5% Defense. So now we're at 35.6% - 45.95% Defense.
So let's then add Weave. But we'll fully slot this power. 5% Defense base, times 1.72, gives us an additional 8.6% Defense, bringing the Ice Tanker, with no IO slotting, up to 44.2% - 54.55. When fighting a single enemy, you're within 0.8% of the soft-cap for S/L/E/NE damage types. That ain't bad. Not bad at all.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
Cardiac and Spiritual look interesting for my Electric/Fire. I push the recharge on him.
Cardiac for my WP/SS
Nerve or Cardiac for my SD/Fire
Probably Cardiac for my Fire/*
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A couple of things to consider: if you intend to build only to the absolute margins, the Alpha Slot disappears when you exemp so you may have a very expensive time making two builds to take full advantage of it. As in: I'm not sure you want to skimp on defence because of the alpha slot.|
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
Okay, someone I think asked what an Ice Tanker could be looking at with all of their powers, so here ya go:
Base Armors: 17% Wet Ice: 1% (unenhanceable, probably even the Alpha slot won't be an exception to that) EA: 1.6% - 7% So, from 1 to 10 enemies, base, you've got: 19.6% - 25% Defense base. Slotted with even-level SOs (1.56% enhancement): 30.016% - 38.44% Defense. With SOs and the Alpha Slot: 32.1222% - 42.448% Defense. Almost at the soft cap without any additional powers, provided enough enemies. With the +3% Def IO, you're above the soft cap without any additional powers. However, here's where it gets good: Pool Powers. Since the Alpha Slot will increase pool powers as well, An Ice Tanker is unlikely to have to slot for Defense sets to a large degree. Combat Jumping: 2.5% Defense base on a Tanker. Most people don't slot this much at all. So, we'll put a single SO on this power, bringing it up to 3% Defense. The Alpha slot will not be impeded by ED at all on this, so it'll give the Tanker 3.5% Defense. So now we're at 35.6% - 45.95% Defense. So let's then add Weave. But we'll fully slot this power. 5% Defense base, times 1.72, gives us an additional 8.6% Defense, bringing the Ice Tanker, with no IO slotting, up to 44.2% - 54.55. When fighting a single enemy, you're within 0.8% of the soft-cap for S/L/E/NE damage types. That ain't bad. Not bad at all. |
Also using the alpha slot for ~3 to 4% defence seems like a very small gain. You could get 45% recharge (about 37.5% of which ignores ED) or similar damage added (from your base).
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I think you're muddying the waters for yourself. You keep thinking "bonus" instead of "enhancement." Bonuses stack on top. Enhancement is subject to ED. It's not a "bonus to your entire character," but an enhancement boost.
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Originally Posted by Sailboat
Ah. Well, they've certainly muddied the waters terminologically. If they aren't global set bonuses but are bonuses to your entire character (and thus "global") they really ought to specifically up-front SAY "they aren't global set bonuses" in that announcement.
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@Rylas
Kill 'em all. Let XP sort 'em out.
Ice/Ice Tanker - Spiritual, for an extra +Max HP in Hoarfrost. Recharge will be nice too, the build is already recharge-oriented. No purples though.
Shield/Fire Tanker - probably Musculature for the +damage, as the build focuses on it.
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Well, my teammates "work with [my] character's existing power sets." |
Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
From the GR site, this quote. "Incarnate abilities are new skills and powers that work with your character's existing power sets."
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If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
So wait, the "defensive buffs" from Nerve affect your overall def? As in SD & Ice Armor? I sorta read that as for FF's and whatnot, but I guess that makes sense.
If that's the way it works, I have to rethink my plans. I was originally thinking Spiritual (read, perma-Hasten) for all except some of my tanks who would consider Cardiac. If I can get an extra 12.6% def over ED before bonuses... man, things just got more complicated. But this is good--no cookie cutter builds, right? 
An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
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Well, they don't affect your overall Defense, they just give all of your individual Def powers an additional enhancement %.
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Originally Posted by dave_p
So wait, the "defensive buffs" from Nerve affect your overall def? As in SD & Ice Armor? I sorta read that as for FF's and whatnot, but I guess that makes sense.
If that's the way it works, I have to rethink my plans. I was originally thinking Spiritual (read, perma-Hasten) for all except some of my tanks who would consider Cardiac. If I can get an extra 12.6% def over ED before bonuses... man, things just got more complicated. But this is good--no cookie cutter builds, right? |
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
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Right, so not worth it for, say, my Fire tank w/just Weave, CJ and maybe Maneuvers, but certainly worth considering for SD, SR, Ice, etc. Of course, if you're already softcapping (presumably w/IOs), this just lets you shoot for other IO bonuses than +Def. 'Course that can be dangerous if you ever exemp down too...|
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
Well, they don't affect your overall Defense, they just give all of your individual Def powers an additional enhancement %.
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I wonder which would be better for Invul that you've already softcapped in many positions, a bit more +resist or +def?
An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
The Cardiac set might as well just be called "Smash Zone's Set" because it has everything I'm looking for on my main Tanker. Endurance boost? Heck yeah! Damage Resistance? w00t! Range probably won't be as useful for a Tanker, but it would still be useful with Gloom and Dark Obliteration.
Man, I've gotta get to level 50 before Issue 19...
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Cardiac on my DA tank.
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Oddly enough I'm doing the same on my DM/DA brute. |
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Cardiac on my DA tank.
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"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
Think I'm going Cardiac on my Fire/Fire build for now. Eventually, I'll put together a Spiritual to have options there. But ugh, that will take a long time to do, I'm sure.
The other part of this decision is... what characters will you do this for? It will take quite some time to Rare and Very Rare levels with this (heh, the writer in me hates that "very." Either something is rare, or it isn't!), so I'm probably going to have to pick one Tank, one Scrapper, and one Blaster for now. Probably my Earth/Storm Controller eventually as well.
I'm sure most (and the devs) would love to do this for all their characters, but it will take quite some time. Though maybe not... Castle said about 6-10 months ago that the Incarnate system would require some hard decisions from us.
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
For my SD/WM tank, I'm wavering between Cardiac Radial for +Res/+End or Spiritual Core for +Rech/+Stun. I guess I need to run the math and decide if the boost to Deflection & Tough is worth it for resistance. I already have an attack chain that's adequate but some more recharge wouldn't hurt either. I rarely hurt for Endurance but a boost there and I could probably drop the Physical Perfection PP and look for a couple new powers.
I guess really none of them scream out to me as the answer to my problems because I don't see myself as having many problems.
Well, remember that these buffs are only available at 50. So I'm guessing when we start seeing some of the new Incarnate content, putting your defense well beyond the cap might be of interest, higher resists, etc. Hard to say at this point.
The Resistance mobs in the new Maria Jenkins arc all have Targeting Drone, so having higher than 45% defense against them would be helpful, for instance. Though I hope that new mobs aren't as annoying as they are. 
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
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Deflection + Tough @ Base = 30%|
Originally Posted by Jophiel
For my SD/WM tank, I'm wavering between Cardiac Radial for +Res/+End or Spiritual Core for +Rech/+Stun. I guess I need to run the math and decide if the boost to Deflection & Tough is worth it for resistance. I already have an attack chain that's adequate but some more recharge wouldn't hurt either. I rarely hurt for Endurance but a boost there and I could probably drop the Physical Perfection PP and look for a couple new powers.
I guess really none of them scream out to me as the answer to my problems because I don't see myself as having many problems. |
@ED 20% ignoring 2/3 of ED gives very approximately 13%
30*1.13 = 33.9%
So about +4% resistance to s/l for the Alpha Slot.
The resistance/defence figures are really just 'extras' and the primary modifier is what I think will influence most people.
My positionals are currently ~50% across the board without any outside buffing. I am waiting to see if defense gets a smackdown with a bunch of new mobs who blow through it which could either make a defense boost very useful or very useless, depending.
I do have the advantage that a bunch of more serious players will have most of this noodled out well before I need to make a hard decision 
This post above raises a very good point. Will the Alpha slot act like a set bonuses (improved healing) which does not influence regeneration rates at all, or will it at like an additional enhancement slot in all of your powers, in which case it will?
I was under the impression it is exactly like adding that "Alpha Enhancement" to every single power individually.
The reason I ask for clarification is that the previous point about Healing Flames/Fire Tanks is only relevant to global set bonuses (which I might test later today on Build 2 of my /Fire Brute).