How would you make CoH lower lvl content more fun?

Techbot Alpha · 11-07-2010 01:53 PM

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Originally Posted by Nethergoat

Basically what they did with GR, [b]although it's a paid expansion (AND a completely seperate Zone)[b]

It took care of both factions problems with the 'low level game' in one fell swoop.

Emphasis and addition mine. Last time I checked, Praetoria had nothing to do with the Pre-Villains, Base Game content.
I'm not talking about expansions. Im not talking about stuff that people might get, or have to pay to get. Im talking about the junk thats STILL left over from the early days that forms the core of the 'Pay to Play' game that anyone from a trial player to a normal subscriber will see.

And the oild stuff. Is. CRAP. Im sorry, but it is. Its in the same vein as 'Go kill 10 Derpy Wolves and collect 10 Mangy Pelts' and trash like that.

And it's the exact reason this;

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Originally Posted by Megajoule

People don't do sewers because the Atlas/Galaxy content sucks. They do it because they don't care about that content, and just want fast fast levels, without any running to and from contacts and mission doors. Fast fast grind grind.

Ditto AE farming. People don't AE farm because everything except the one mission that they do (over and over) sucks; they do it because they don't care about anything but fast fast levels.

You will never come up with content cool enough to make these people do it, because they don't care about content. At all.

-is also untrue. I don't do the Sewers because its fast EXP, although it is pretty fast as a side effect. I do it for the simple reason that I cannot be effed to go and do the stupid, brain draining tasks that the starter contacts send me on. Go to this end of the zone and beat a warehouse full of Hellions. Now go to the OTHER end of the zone and beat ANOTHER warehouse full of Hellions. Now go and beat up 10 Hellions on the street. Now go talk to the Security Chief in Kings who will...make you kill 10 Skulls.

/Repeated violent facedesking

That is NOT how you design a low level game. It may have been good enough for Jack 'Special Vision' Emmert, but it simply does not cut it when held up to the stuff that has been produced recently. No matter what your counter arguement may be, it will fail in the face of just how bad the old stuff is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zwillinger

GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon

NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

Bullet Barrage · 11-07-2010 02:02 PM

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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha

Re-build the pre-Villains game from the ground up.

I'm not joking. The old Cryptic built content is really damn dire, and showing its age.
I'm gonna be very interested to see what happens when Cataclysm comes out, and just how opinions shift...

Yes! Yes! YUUUUSH! So much this.

Goodbye. Not to the game, but the players. Goodbye. Everyone, remember to have fun. That's all I can say.

Dante · 11-07-2010 02:03 PM

I agree and disagree.

There are players out there who will blow past low level content because they don't want to play low level content. Regardless of CoX's focus on 'the journey' rather than the end goal, there are still people who don't want to be low level and blast past content until they get to 'the good stuff'. Even with Fitness becoming inherent, things still won't really take of until you've got SOs slotted or IOs become more viable (around 22 - 35 I reckon).

But then there are veterans who want to enjoy the content and for whom Praetoria isn't appropriate. I hate running early content and I'd do AE arcs if the rewards were consistent with non-AE content. But they're not and it isn't so hey ho, newspapers it is most of the time.

@Dante EU - Union Roleplayer and Altisis Victim
The Militia: Union RP Supergroup - www.themilitia.org.uk

BBQ_Pork · 11-07-2010 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha

-is also untrue. I don't do the Sewers because its fast EXP, although it is pretty fast as a side effect. I do it for the simple reason that I cannot be effed to go and do the stupid, brain draining tasks that the starter contacts send me on. Go to this end of the zone and beat a warehouse full of Hellions. Now go to the OTHER end of the zone and beat ANOTHER warehouse full of Hellions. Now go and beat up 10 Hellions on the street. Now go talk to the Security Chief in Kings who will...make you kill 10 Skulls.

Note: Almost any amount of streetsweeping along the way (and you're pre-travel, so you easily just might) will cause you to up-level on the way to that mission, so you fight lower-level than what was on the sidewalk out front.

Hot_Head_Mike · 11-07-2010 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nethergoat

Basically what they did with GR, although it's a paid expansion.

It took care of both factions problems with the 'low level game' in one fell swoop.

After rolling 4 characters threw Praetoria it got tedious in my opinion.

Nethergoat · 11-07-2010 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hot_Head_Mike

After rolling 4 characters threw Praetoria it got tedious in my opinion.

So if they upgraded Atlas and Mercy you'd be equally bored in a few run-throughs.

*shrug*

Not sure what would satisfy you, other than some sort of infinitely variable mission generator.

If only we had one of those....

The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.

My City Was Gone

BBQ_Pork · 11-07-2010 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nethergoat

So if they upgraded Atlas and Mercy you'd be equally bored in a few run-throughs.

*shrug*

Not sure what would satisfy you, other than some sort of infinitely variable mission generator.

If only we had one of those....

For maximum lulz, I recommend using the Random button to select your mission!

Lord_Apollon · 11-07-2010 02:36 PM

On another thread, we talked about a way to semi-redo the older content:

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=243232

The idea we had was to use AE to re-create the arcs, modernizing them. If you're serious, why not join the effort? The devs don't have the manpower to redeux old content, but we do.

Hot_Head_Mike · 11-07-2010 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nethergoat

So if they upgraded Atlas and Mercy you'd be equally bored in a few run-throughs.

*shrug*

Not sure what would satisfy you, other than some sort of infinitely variable mission generator.

If only we had one of those....

Well 4 times may have been an exaggeration but i'm thinking redo all the Tech, magic, science, natural, and mutant arcs from galaxy and atlas.

PSLAnimal · 11-07-2010 02:43 PM

New mission arc: "Rescue the Hooters Girls."

I used to fiddle with my back feet music for a black onyx. My entire room absorbed every echo. The music was . . . thud like. The music was . . . thud like. I usually played such things as rough-neck and thug. Opaque melodies that would bug most people. Music from the other side of the fence.

Hot_Head_Mike · 11-07-2010 02:45 PM

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Originally Posted by PSLAnimal

New mission arc: "Rescue the Hooters Girls."

Ignore my post, I'm good now.

BlackArachnia · 11-07-2010 02:59 PM

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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill

Villains:
Different starter zone for those who *want* to start as a villain and not in Mercy Trash Heap/Rescued by Arachnos.

More contacts.

Heroes:

General content revamp. Some tweaking has already been done, to the Hollows, Faultline and the Posi TF. Just bring it up to date, freshen it up some.

Right-o Memphis.

Streamline the hero side content as well. Get rid of the pointless street hunts that some contacts give you. Get rid of missions to hazard zones and make some content for them. (I know that would take alot of time, and work.)

firespray · 11-07-2010 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill

Villains:
Different starter zone for those who *want* to start as a villain and not in Mercy Trash Heap/Rescued by Arachnos.

More contacts.

Heroes:

General content revamp. Some tweaking has already been done, to the Hollows, Faultline and the Posi TF. Just bring it up to date, freshen it up some.

This hits the nail on the head. The only thing I would have added was giving us stamina earlier, but they're already doing that.

Techbot Alpha · 11-07-2010 05:02 PM

Right, I've decided to actually start work on re-writing ALL of the low level Hero content. Starting on Atlas, moving across to Galaxy, then onto Kings. Maybe beyond.
Honestly, it's really not that hard.

Here's an example, replacing Azuria's random missions with a mini-arc for Magic Origin characters, introducing them to the gang turf war between the Hellions and Skulls;

Atlas Park

New Contact Arcs

Azuria

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Dicing with Devils and Death
Level 1-6 Arc

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Mission 1 Take down Hellion Rave on the Promenade

The Hellions are an ever present problem in Atlas Park, Character. While we may be thankful that they are some of the only ones to slip past the security this far into the City, that does not make them any less of a problem for the citizens here.
I just received a report from the PPD that a gang of them are holding a rave somewhere on the Promenade. I would like you to go there and put a stop to it. Not only will this serve as a reminder to the young punks that we are keeping a constant eye on them, but it will also be a healthy test of your abilities. A trial by fire, if youll pardon the pun.

When you enter the warehouse, you find that the rave has already been broken up; people are fleeing as you enter, and the whole place is already on fire. Shouting and gunfire from further in suggests that something is up. As you go further in, you come across groups of wounded or grumbling Hellions, all still itching for a fight.
One ganger is too wounded to put up a fight, although that doesnt stop him holding you in contempt. What information you can coax from him, however, indicates that they arent the only combatants here.

The final encounter is a pitched battle (Non damage) between the Damned who was heading the Rave, Scorch, and a Skulls Bone Daddy, Tombstone, whos heavily armed compatriots have been busy ruining the Hellions party. You step in and smack a few heads, taking both of them into custody. Something Scorch tries to shout as you floor him gives you a clue to look around. Sure enough, in the same room, is a stolen artefact, which you take back to Azuria.

Hmn...A Damned, in Atlas? That is not good at all. However, what troubles me even more is the presence of the Skulls. Theyve been mostly confined to Kings Row and Perez Park. Their appearance at the rave suggests that either they were after the trinket the Hellions had, or they were attempting to make a move into Atlas once more. And neither situation is desirable for us.

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Mission 2 Investigate Disturbance near Hyperion Way

Ive just received another call from the PPD, Character. Theyve had multiple reports of a disturbance over by Hyperion Way, and some reports of gunfire and explosions. Ive tried scrying into the area...but something is blocking me. Whatever it is, I need you to go and investigate it. I requested some support from Longbow on this one, so you wont be going in alone.

Once more the warehouse is on fire when you get here, and the fight seems a lot more two-sided. There are mobs of both Skulls and Hellions spread about, pitched battles between groups and hostile patrols that will attack anything that isnt in their gang on sight.
Two Longbow Agents are held captive, one by Skulls intent on adding the captives head to their trophy racks, and one by Hellions who are just about ready to carve them up for whatever demons will pay attention to them.

Your first target of opportunity is the Bone Daddy in charge of the Raid, Skelter. Taking him down will, after one form of coercion or another, reveal just what the Skulls were after; an artefact that hides its user from scrying and various detection methods. Such an artefact has allowed the Hellions to continue to move into Atlas Park despite the security, and would in turn allow the Skulls to do the exact same thing if they could claim it.
First point of order after that is to secure the artefact. Of course, the Hellions arent too willing to give it up, and their boss, Burnscar, jumps you before you can get the thing to safety. Of course as a Hero of the city its your civic duty to beat seven different kinds of hell out of him. Floor him and let the Longbow reinforcements take care of the punks left over.

I see now...The Oculus Obscurus, or Unseeing Eye. It went missing some time ago; trust the Hellions to be the ones to have it. Thank you, Character. Ill make sure this goes into the Vault here for safe keeping.
The Skulls plans do not fill me with hope, however. Moving into Atlas is definitely their aim if they were after the Obscurus. Well need to find a way to make it quite clear to them that their attention here is not welcome. And I think I have just the plan for it...

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Mission 3 Set up the Skulls in Atlas

You should probably know a bit more about those we are dealing with, Character. The Hellions and Skulls have been waging a gang turf war pretty much since they first met. The Skulls are pusher of a drug you may well have heard of called Superadine. Its Superadine that is the cause of the gang known as The Trolls. It is dangerous, and so are those that sell it.
The Hellions are demon worshipers and anarchists, while the Skulls wield black magics that even I dont know the source of. Both groups work on a strength based system of promotion, as many such gangs do; the one with the most power leads. We can, however, turn that to our advantage here.

The Skulls recently stole a minor artefact in Kings Row. Its little more than a bauble, but they dont know that. While we have recovered it, I think it may be worth a small sacrifice to...how shall I say...unsettle the Skulls stability a little? I need you to take the artefact, and plant it in a warehouse the Skulls seem to have taken over in Downside. Its rough over there, and harder to keep tabs. The good news is that, when found with an artefact that was supposed to be recovered by Heroes, the Skulls leaders will start to question the men theyve sent into Atlas. The gangers in turn will resent being wrongly accused likely starting a power struggle. While not one hundred percent ideal, it will force the Skulls to divert resources, and hopefully allow us to contain their encroachment on Atlas.

This mission is much more subtle than the others. While you can wade in, floor everyone and plant the artefact, you can just as easily sneak past and plant it, leaving no one the wiser. In fact, if you defeat the patrols, your more than likely to trigger reinforcements, as gangers run in after being attracted by shouting and gunfire. Either way, plant the Artefact, and skedaddle. Leaving the Atlas Skulls in a spot of bother.

Excellent work, Character! Word on the grapevine is that the Atlas Skulls cell is already in trouble. Apparently their superiors are far from amused at the artefact being in their hands. Even if they do find out its pretty harmless, the damage has already been done. Were hopefully on our way to seeing a stop put to this mess. Well done.

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Mission 4 Stop 3K Kelvin!

Character, weve got a situation here! Despite the Skulls plans to move into Atlas being in disarray, the Hellions dont know that yet. As far as their concerned, the Skulls are still going ahead with their plans, and the increased activity must just looks like a more concentrated take over! Theyve really pulled the gloves off on this one; theyve sent in 3K Kelvin.
Kelvin isnt the highest up the Hellions food chain, but he is one of their top enforcers. The gang leaders send him in like a sort of living weapon to bring order and cause havoc when something gets in their way. And we just painted a big problem target for them.
Fortunately in somewhere like Atlas Kelvin cant go unnoticed for long, and I have a lead here on his current location. I need you to go there, and bring him down before he can hurt anyone; the Skulls may be criminals too, but no one deserves being charred to cinders in the middle of a gang war. At least by taking them in to the Zig theres some hope they may reform. Please, Stop 3K Kelvin, Character!

A fairly straight forward mission; head in, find Kelvin, and take him down. 3K Kelvin is a named Hellion EB (scaling down to Boss level), so hes a tough fight, but not insurmountable. He may need some level scaling, but a competent team should be able to thrash him and send him packing in short order.

You have my thanks, Character. Kelvin is by no means predictable, and it would have been just as likely that innocents would have been targeted in lieu of Skulls. Hopefully this should send the Hellions a clear message; Atlas Park does not welcome them and their arson!

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Finale Mission 5 Defeat Marrowsnap Petrovic!

The Skulls must have been really serious in their attempt on Atlas Park...theyve come to put their house in order. And by they I mean the Skulls founders; The Petrovic Brothers! I dont even know what their real first names are anymore, but they go by the identities Marrow Drinker and Marrowsnap these days.
Its Marrowsnap whos come to knock heads together and try and salvage their operations here. It seems hes set up temporary base in Downside before making one final push on the Hellions of Atlas. I tell you now, Character; that cannot happen.

Marrowsnap wont care who gets caught in the crossfire between his Skulls and the Hellions. Innocent lives are on the line here. I need you to go in there, and stop him cold. I have got some information that will help you, though; Marrowsnap is currently in possession of three artefacts. They are most likely guarded by some of his lieutenants and with good reason. Hes using these black magic idols to boost his power. You dont have to disable these artefacts...but it will make apprehending him a lot easier.
One way or another, Character, Marrowsnap cannot be allowed his foothold in Atlas. Take him down!

The final boss fight is against an always EB class Marrowsnap, a custom powered and different looking Skulls Boss than the current, somewhat uninspiring model in game (which is just a named Bone Daddy). Hes the bigger of the two Petrovic brothers, and weighs in with Dark Melee and Dark Armour abilities. Nothing too powerful, though; An attack chain of basic attacks and maybe an AoE, along with a blast. He is inherently mez resistant, but its his shields that are reliant on the trigger mechanism.
The three glowies that can be found around the map are purely optional. But taking down each one will knock out one of his shields. Hell have some in-built resistance to all damage as an EB, and each layer of Shield will grant him additional resistances. Taking out all three may take more time, but it also makes him an easier fight, especially solo. Each artefact is guarded by a boss, who scales as normal.

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Marrowsnap Dialogue;

Before Combat: I dont care wether it was Longbow, Capes, or Deaths own anti-idiot stick that did it! WE are taking Atlas Park over!

Combat Start: And we start NOW! Im gonna enjoy this, Character!

75% Health: Me and my brother? We carve up jerks like you for breakfast! Your going DOWN!

50% Health: You think you can stop the Skulls? The Hellions aint gonna hold onto Atlas forever!

25% Health: Gwuah! This...this isnt gonna end like this! Ill take your damn head!

Defeat: This...isnt *cough* over...Character. Just you wait..!

At the end of the fight, Marrowsnap teleports away in a choking cloud of dark smoke. But not without leaving behind a boot and one of his trouser pockets, in which you find a pair of jet black dice with white spots.

You did it, Character! Marrowsnap might have got away, but the state of his escape makes it pretty clear hell be licking the bruises you gave him for quite some time to come. I- whats this?

*You show Azuria the dice that Marrowsnap dropped.*

Petrovics Knucklebones... Ive heard stories. Apparently the Petrovics carved up their own family to use in their magic. Those skull masks they wear are, if rumour is true, their own parents. Sick and depraved, whichever way you look at it, if you ask me. As for these dice...I dont even want to know how they made them. Still, theyre partially enchanted. I dont know what its worth, Character, but Id hold onto them. Even if its only as a painful reminder for Marrowsnap that he lost. Just remember that, while some criminals are just misunderstood, some of them are the real article. Genuine cold hearted killers. Black Magic like theirs wouldnt answer to any other kind of person...
Still. Well done. And thank you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zwillinger

GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon

NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

Tidbit Jr. · 11-07-2010 07:39 PM

Just played through the Bonefire arc last night. Reminded me of just how nice it is that that one little arc has all the important information on which gangs side with which.

Techbot Alpha · 11-08-2010 12:10 PM

Have finished the 'Dicing with Devils and Death' arc in AE, took about half a day total? If a schmuck like me can do something like that in half a day, theres not really any excuse for the old stuff being sat the way it is for this long.

And before people say 'Oh, it has to be Dev quality though!' let me finish testing and tweaking it and then post the ID here. Then judge wether the Cryptic built junk thats still in has has any right to be there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zwillinger

GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon

NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.