Hopefully the REAL Batman goes forth and opens up a can o whoop ***! on the guy that did this to him
First rule in comics are the only people that stay dead are Bruce Wayne's parents and Dick Greyson's parents.
Cancel the kitchen scraps for widows and lepers, no more merciful beheadings and call off christmas!
Uncle Ben's still pushing up daisies.
(unless that's been changed by BND as well ?)
Also, the return mini has been pretty standard for Grant Morrison. Pretty high on the WTF? factor and fairly low to nonexistent on the "making sense as a story" factor. i know Bruce was eventually going to come back, i just wish they hadn't jumped on the fact he was still sucking air right out the gate of Final Crisis.
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I haven't been following, but from what I understand, only the characters actually think he's dead right? DC themselves haven't been saying he's dead at all, just trapped in the past.|
Originally Posted by 2short2care
First rule in comics are the only people that stay dead are Bruce Wayne's parents and Dick Greyson's parents.
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At least that's the impression I get from comments online.
Yes, the characters were the only ones who thought Bruce was dead - except Tim Drake, who was convinced that Bruce was alive and was able to find evidence that Bruce had left in the past, starting the search for Bruce told in the Time Masters comic.
Up until issue 6 or 12 of Red Robin everyone believed Bruce was dead. After Tim found evidence they started a time search
If Bruce doesn't remove Dick as Batman I think there is something wrong with the people at DC and knowing their characters. Dick attempted to murder Joker, and succeeded... and failed to stop the murder of BlockBuster even though he could have easily.
The reason Bruce removed Jean Paul from Batman was due to his ruthlessness but more so that he let Abetior die.
Bruce should not let Dick be Batman and he gave orders to not be Batman in his last will and testament... probably thinking that Dick shouldn't be and Tim wasn't prepared yet.
Hate to disapoint, but Dick and Damian will remain Batman and Robin after Bruce returns. Dick takes over as Gotham City's Batman while Bruce goes out to start Batman Inc. And Joker's still running around in Batman & Robin so I don't think he succeeded in killing him.
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I know that Dick will continue on being Batman which is completely wrong for what the characters would do given past actions.|
Originally Posted by Xaero_Hour
Hate to disapoint, but Dick and Damian will remain Batman and Robin after Bruce returns. Dick takes over as Gotham City's Batman while Bruce goes out to start Batman Inc. And Joker's still running around in Batman & Robin so I don't think he succeeded in killing him.
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The character I hate the more I read about them is Dick Grayson and the fact of the matter he's handled worse than Wonder Woman to a degree...While WW just gets rebooted every few years Dick never gets rebooted, but it's like his past doesn't exist to any of the writers and they simply write him and about him as this guy who is supposed to be great when he's not. He's confused, he is more less out of his depth, he's far too emotional, and he's got a chip on his shoulder (and not a tasty chip either)... Not to mention he has tried to leave being a vigilante behind several times and the only reason he keeps coming back to it is cuz he can't do anything else... and the thing he seems to be good at he can't keep and it confuses him more.
And not to mention his supporting cast is far more entertaining and well written than he is. Capt. Rohrbach. Amygdala, Clancy, John Law, Tarantula. etc are all better characters than Dick Grayson.
Quite frankly, Dick Grayson, the character is not cut out to be Batman. The only reason he as a character could possibly hold himself as Batman is to not let Bruce down and that's not something that can sustain. The only reason he became Batman is because either the editors and writers don't care or know his history OR they figure the audience doesn't know or care for that history and think that only Dick can succeed Bruce as Batman if anyone.
As far as Dick killing Joker. Dick shot and killed Joker thinking that Joker had killed Tim. Batman revived Joker in a Lazarus pit to keep Dick from being charged with murder.
So Dick's history...
Accused of Murder, but cleared his name because he was framed
Technically murdered Joker, but wasn't charged due to Joker being imediately revived.
Let Blockbuster be murdered by tarantula, turned himself in, but had the charges dropped by Rohrbach.
Became a mobster for a short while.
So Basically he's gone over the edge twice and the only reason he hasn't felt the consequences is his superiors have got him off the hook.
Grrrr....
I read the title of the thread and got all 
!! Thinking it was all just a big mistake and BaB's was still with us.
Then I realized it was about Batman and I sighed 
.
You may carry on with your discussion now.
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Actually rule #1 in comics is that Morrison can't write for #$%^. Honestly, the man is embarassing to plagerizing hacks even. His storylines make NO sense, are the worst kind of slapped-together trash you will ever read and he couldn't keep a character "in character" if you handed him the dialogue and just told him to type.
His ideas of a "shocking twist" is to ressurect a piece of silly stupid comic history that everyone has forgotten and claim he's modernizing it or something. (I'm looking directly at his 'Batman of Zur-En-Arrh' ressurect to justify his writing himself into a corner). Seriously- I almost feel embarrassed for the Batman franchise- he's mauling it almost as bad as OMD did for Spidey.
Yeah.. Grayson isn't handled very well, that's true. But he's still being handled with more respect then Bruce's character. I'm sorry... Batman INC???????????? It's almost like Morrison is trying to rip off what Marvel has done recently with Steve Rogers/Cap- and rip it off BADLY.
To be honest Bruce would be a more believable character if he had actually died at the end of Crisis and been one of the ones ressurected by the White Lantern at the conclusion of Darkest Night. That would have kept one of the cornerstones of the DC universe tied to the main "universe" storyline easily. Instead Morrison assumes every reader is a brain dead monkey and will blindly believe he is as awesome as he believes himself to be.
"Well, there's going to be some light music and a short note of apology saying, 'The universe ended last week, we're really sorry, we don't know what you're doing here, didn't you get the message?'"- Steve Moffat
I was hoping it was about Bruce Campbell.
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i disagree, but i do think they floundered with the character ever since Infinite Crisis, and that it was a big mistake to destroy Bludhaven. Nightwing as police officer was one of the better decisions they'd made with the character. But then came Bludhaven's destruction and then OYL and the series fell apart. I still like the character, i actually like him more than Bruce. (Tim's still my favorite of the Bat crew though, and seeing him wearing a version of the Bat costume was one of the few high points of that idiotic Battle for the Cowl mini)|
Originally Posted by Durakken
The character I hate the more I read about them is Dick Grayson and the fact of the matter he's handled worse than Wonder Woman to a degree...
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I like Grayson as Batman, his choice in sidekicks, not so much. But even at first he didn't want to be Batman, it was only in seeing no one else was really suited for the role he stepped up and took up the cowl, and i think most of the writers have done well in showing him become a new Batman. Having Bruce back is only going to end retarding Grayson's character development.
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Well, I think that works.|
Originally Posted by Veritech
i disagree, but i do think they floundered with the character ever since Infinite Crisis, and that it was a big mistake to destroy Bludhaven. Nightwing as police officer was one of the better decisions they'd made with the character. But then came Bludhaven's destruction and then OYL and the series fell apart. I still like the character, i actually like him more than Bruce. (Tim's still my favorite of the Bat crew though, and seeing him wearing a version of the Bat costume was one of the few high points of that idiotic Battle for the Cowl mini)
I like Grayson as Batman, his choice in sidekicks, not so much. But even at first he didn't want to be Batman, it was only in seeing no one else was really suited for the role he stepped up and took up the cowl, and i think most of the writers have done well in showing him become a new Batman. Having Bruce back is only going to end retarding Grayson's character development. |
Bruce returns and Grayson states it clearly, "Didn't want it, but if I didn't go for it, someone else would have taken it"
Not sure I care for a Batman Inc. Seems to go against what Batman would do.
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Great!
Now Bruce can become the old bitter man in the Batcave, directing the other Bat-people.
-np
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i want to see what they do with it before really making a decision. could be good, could be more crap. frankly what i wish they'd do is not put Bruce back in the cowl so soon. i realize not putting him back in the cowl at all would be impossible, but i think it would be a more fun dynamic watching Bruce sit back and see what someone else does as the Bat before jumping back into action.
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Originally Posted by BrandX
Not sure I care for a Batman Inc. Seems to go against what Batman would do.
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See, I wouldn't mind watching him watch one person in the cowl, not multiple Batman's, and really, I rather like the idea of a Bat-Family, more than an army of Batmans.|
Originally Posted by Veritech
i want to see what they do with it before really making a decision. could be good, could be more crap. frankly what i wish they'd do is not put Bruce back in the cowl so soon. i realize not putting him back in the cowl at all would be impossible, but i think it would be a more fun dynamic watching Bruce sit back and see what someone else does as the Bat before jumping back into action.
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Batman
Robin
Nightwing
Huntress
Batgirl
Batwoman
ect
ect
That I enjoy.
I also want to see a return of Nightwing, as I enjoyed the Nightwing comic more than Batman.
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Same.
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Originally Posted by ObiWan
I was hoping it was about Bruce Campbell.
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Me too!|
Originally Posted by ObiWan
I was hoping it was about Bruce Campbell.
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I am happy about Bruce Wayne returning, but I'm dissapointed that he won't be Batman once he returns. For years I waited on Steve Rogers to come back, and now he is, but he isn't Captain America. Steve Rogers IS Captain America and now I have to wait on Bucky to die to see it again. I was hoping that Bruce would resume being Batman and Dick would go back to being Nightwing. Being Nightwing is cool. Why would he want to stay Batman when he could be Nightwing? Oh well. I got sick of Morrison and stopped reading Batman after the RIP storyline so it doesn't really matter to me. Bruce Wayne IS Batman though.
@Joshua.
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As the Captain America movie gets closer to release, I'm certain Steve will be Cap again. However his return to the role does not mean that Bucky has to "die" again. Too much work was put into his return to just bump him off again. He'd be more apt to adopt a new identity similar to the Winter Soldier, perhaps even call himself Nomad.
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Originally Posted by Forefinger_
Me too!
I am happy about Bruce Wayne returning, but I'm dissapointed that he won't be Batman once he returns. For years I waited on Steve Rogers to come back, and now he is, but he isn't Captain America. Steve Rogers IS Captain America and now I have to wait on Bucky to die to see it again. I was hoping that Bruce would resume being Batman and Dick would go back to being Nightwing. Being Nightwing is cool. Why would he want to stay Batman when he could be Nightwing? Oh well. I got sick of Morrison and stopped reading Batman after the RIP storyline so it doesn't really matter to me. Bruce Wayne IS Batman though. |
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right, like there was EVER any doubt that Bruce wasn't going to be coming back as Batman at some point. they didn't even have to slap that crappy, pointless epilogue into the end of Final Crisis and there was not ONE comic fan who thought Bruce wouldnt be back in under a couple of years. i like the idea of putting Grayson in the cowl since (much like Batman Beyond) it gets folks used to the idea that maybe, eventually Bruce Wayne might have to permanently hang up the cowl. |
Originally Posted by Forefinger_
Me too!
I am happy about Bruce Wayne returning, but I'm dissapointed that he won't be Batman once he returns. For years I waited on Steve Rogers to come back, and now he is, but he isn't Captain America. Steve Rogers IS Captain America and now I have to wait on Bucky to die to see it again. I was hoping that Bruce would resume being Batman and Dick would go back to being Nightwing. Being Nightwing is cool. Why would he want to stay Batman when he could be Nightwing? Oh well. I got sick of Morrison and stopped reading Batman after the RIP storyline so it doesn't really matter to me. Bruce Wayne IS Batman though. |
as for Steve. i dig that he's taken over as the new Nick Fury and as much as i raged seeing him get offed after that idiotic Civil War, Brubaker did a damn good job setting Bucky up as Cap's replacement and he's been growing into the role pretty well. yeah, Steve will be Cap again eventually, but i hope it won't be too soon. even with the movie coming out, i hope they don't rush Steve back into being Cap.
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Old Bucky should team up with the New female Bucky and do a variety show.|
Originally Posted by Nericus
As the Captain America movie gets closer to release, I'm certain Steve will be Cap again. However his return to the role does not mean that Bucky has to "die" again. Too much work was put into his return to just bump him off again. He'd be more apt to adopt a new identity similar to the Winter Soldier, perhaps even call himself Nomad.
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-np
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So...Bruce Wayne makes it back to the present this week.
I haven't read the latest issue, but it seems this is being made out to be a big event. So what are your thoughts?