How about killing of Statesman...and other possible avenues as such.
By
Arctic_Princess,
Posted on: 2010-10-06 19:06 in Suggestions and Ideas
I would rather not walking into comic book hell of retcons and dangling plot threads for what amounts to "might as well."
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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That....actually sounds like a great idea for a story arc. "A World without a Statesman." You can't have your villain without a hero. (Long as hell hero-needs-villain philosophicial speech cut short) ....and that's why we need Statesman. But showing us a world where Recluse won and then later fell to his own people, well that's a story worth an arc in Portal Corp.
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Originally Posted by Dr_Mechano
You see killing off Statesman...
Eh...it isn't a huge deal, you'd need someone to replace him, a few arcs would need a rework, nothing a standard Issue couldn't fix. But by killing off Statesman you also have to kill off Lord Recluse (otherwise what is to stop him just romping around and generally being a goit). Now killing off Lord Recluse THAT is a major issue. The problem being that Arachnos would fall into infighting between the four Patrons and probably Dr Aeon which means 90% of the CoV content needs either a complete rewrite or vast tweaking, heck just the four patron arcs alone (the full ones, from lackey to equal to Lord Recluse) are an amazingly mental over 100 missions alone (Each 40-50 Patron Destined one storyline is over 20 mission IIRC) and they would need to be completely rewritten. This means that the Isles themselves need to be redesigned, which faction of Arachnos holds what? The tower in Grandville would certainly not be left standing. It also leaves a rather large power vacumn for other villain groups to move in during the chaos caused by the 'Arachnos War'. The problem is that the Destined one schtick is so ingrained into CoV that without it, there really isn't a hell of a lot of story backbone. In short, killing Statesman, work but not a bucketload of work, Killing Recluse is an almost Going Rogue level amount of work. |
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No, I like him too |
Originally Posted by Psycho_Sarah
Am I like the only person who likes Statesman?
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Statesman the toon? Probably not.|
Originally Posted by Psycho_Sarah
Am I like the only person who likes Statesman?
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Statesman the meatspace guy? I've only met him once or twice. I'll just say I'm somewhat put off by his...people skills.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
Generally, the only way I'd see them actually killing off Statesman and/or Lord Recluse is at the tail end of the CoH life span, and make it one massive arc that's supposed to be a sort of lead in to CoH2 if they have anything planned for it.
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What people skills? |
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Statesman the toon? Probably not.
Statesman the meatspace guy? I've only met him once or twice. I'll just say I'm somewhat put off by his...people skills. |
Mah vision! Mah vision!
This in fighting is pointless!
It's obvious that only I, Commander Amazing amcapable of leading us in this dark time! I hope you come out on election day! 
-C.A.
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Just because I can;|
Originally Posted by je_saist
This isn't even touching on the gaping plot-hole of How do you kill something that plays Frisbee with a Rikti Mothership?
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The Orestes Rifle, used in the LRSF, would have the power to put a few massive dents in States 'invulnerable' defences. Heck, by all rights the temp power should work against the cheating sod in the LRSF, going by its description as being an 'Anti Incarnate Weapon'. But it doesn't in-game, mores the pity.
Anyway, States isn't unkillable. The missile he 'fielded' during WW2 nearly killed him, hence him being out of the action during D-Day and beyond. All you need is an agent in every 'Hospital Teleport' location in Paragon, a team to take him down, and then a knife in the back/throat.
Boom. One dead Incarnate.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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...I love that phrase |
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Statesman the toon? Probably not.
Statesman the meatspace guy? I've only met him once or twice. I'll just say I'm somewhat put off by his...people skills. |
I may have to adopt it
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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You say you're COMMANDER Amazing but your name is clearly CAPTAIN Amazing. HOW ARE YOU?! WHY WOULD YOU LIE ABOUT YOUR TITLE?! WHAT ARE YOU HIDING FROM THE PUBLIC?!
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Originally Posted by CaptainAmazing
This in fighting is pointless!
It's obvious that only I, Commander Amazing amcapable of leading us in this dark time! I hope you come out on election day! -C.A. |
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One of the first demonstrations of his powers in Web of Archnos is to snap the blade of a knife while stabbing it into his thigh, so I doubt a knife to the throat would do much of anything, maybe if it was made of the same Proto-steal that Lord Recluse used on his spider legs. Also, If you could injure him enough to force him to use the Hospital teleporters you'd be better of disabling his beacon and letting whatever did that damage finish him off.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Anyway, States isn't unkillable. The missile he 'fielded' during WW2 nearly killed him, hence him being out of the action during D-Day and beyond. All you need is an agent in every 'Hospital Teleport' location in Paragon, a team to take him down, and then a knife in the back/throat. Boom. One dead Incarnate. |
And another thing, it seems the injury that took him out of action during WWII occurred during D-Day and isn't said to be a missile.
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| Back in Europe, the Allies were massing in Britain for D-Day. When invasion came, the Freedom Phalanx and Dawn Patrol were part of the first wave to enter France. Many dropped in the night before with the airborne troops, providing protection against Storm Korps jet pack troops. Both sides took horrendous casualties in those first bloody hours, with the super powered soldiers on both sides fighting in the vanguard. Late on the first day the Storm Korps launched a massive counteroffensive in an effort to drive the Allies back into the English Channel. Fought largely in the air above Normandy's beaches, this was one of the most spectacular hero battles of the war. Statesman himself was in the forefront, powering through hundreds of enemy super soldiers. The Allies repulsed the counterattack and the armies pushed on into France. Victory did not come without a terrible cost. Scores of heroes lost their lives and Statesman suffered critical wounds that left him crippled for the rest of the war. |
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Pre-ZACTLY!
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Originally Posted by Freebooter
What people skills?
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Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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WARNING! HUGE BATTLESHIP: SPOILERS! IS APPROACHING FAST: NO REFUGE|
Originally Posted by Dark Lost
That....actually sounds like a great idea for a story arc. "A World without a Statesman." You can't have your villain without a hero. (Long as hell hero-needs-villain philosophicial speech cut short) ....and that's why we need Statesman. But showing us a world where Recluse won and then later fell to his own people, well that's a story worth an arc in Portal Corp.
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Villains already get this in their latter patron arc.
Basically you, as a Destined one, trigger the apocalypse in a major fashion by helping Recluse beat Statesman for good in the future and you do infact cause massive infighting to break out when half of Arachnos sides with you and the other half with Recluse into an Arachnos War (two of them in some arcs).
The world is a wasteland fit only for the haunting of Ghosts.
You also see glimpses of this future in the Lord Recluse Strike Force.
Truthfully, I don't want to see Statesman die.
Statesman is CoH's Superman! People think it's lame when Superman dies in the comics. People complain when characters die in the comics, why do it with CoH's signature characters?
Now...a revamp of his outfit would be GREAT! Oh, how I hate his mask!
Also, I have to say, while the OP may not have meant it as a "I hate Jack" post, I think it may have come off that way with "replace him with a current dev".
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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And as I said, even if that's not what he meant. And that's not what was intended if it were implemented, that's how it would be perceived.
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Originally Posted by BrandX
Also, I have to say, while the OP may not have meant it as a "I hate Jack" post, I think it may have come off that way with "replace him with a current dev".
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Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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Really? I've always liked his look. The mask i feel shows of his Greek God origins
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Originally Posted by BrandX
Truthfully, I don't want to see Statesman die.
Statesman is CoH's Superman! People think it's lame when Superman dies in the comics. People complain when characters die in the comics, why do it with CoH's signature characters? Now...a revamp of his outfit would be GREAT! Oh, how I hate his mask! Also, I have to say, while the OP may not have meant it as a "I hate Jack" post, I think it may have come off that way with "replace him with a current dev". |
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His mask, maybe, but the rest is kind of American.|
Originally Posted by Hot_Head_Mike
Really? I've always liked his look. The mask i feel shows of his Greek God origins
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The thing, Statesman is iconic partly through his look.
It's campy, tacky, and dumb.
but when you look at him, you INSTANTLY know he's a super hero, and the kind who punches through walls.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.
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Wow, its been a long, long time since I did Citadel's TF. I thought, "Wow, they really re-vamped Positron, and even Synapse got a kick. Lets see what they did to old Citadel." Well let me say folks, the literary masterpiece has not been altered! It is just the same brilliant writing it has always been. I can just imagine the staff meeting when it was rolled out.
Jack (dressed as Statesman): So, today we're going to talk about my vision..
Positron (eating something): Jack...we were supposed to be talking about taskforces and what they'll bring to City of Heroes.
Jack: .... but my vision.
Positron: We'll come back to that, I swear.
Jack: Well..okay, but I do have a vision..
Positron: Okay, so we're to Citadel's TF. Well Citadel, what do you have for us?
Citadel: Well its going to be really good.
Jack: Does it fit my vision?
Positron: ...
Citadel: I think so, see, I'm going to have the team go into a base and defeat all the soldiers.
Positron: *encouraging* That's a good start.
Citadel: Next, I'll have them go into -another- base and defeat all the soldiers.
Positron: *pauses* Okaaaay.
Citadel: *excited now* THEN, I'll have them go into yet ANOTHER base. See, this is the good part. I'll add OBJECTS they have to CLICK to complete it too! Two goals they have to achieve at once!!
Positron: ... so Jack, about this vision...
Can we kill off Citadel and leave Statesman alone?
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You're lucky I wasn't drinking anything, else you'd have to get me a new keyboard. =P|
Originally Posted by Freebooter
Wow, its been a long, long time since I did Citadel's TF. I thought, "Wow, they really re-vamped Positron, and even Synapse got a kick. Lets see what they did to old Citadel." Well let me say folks, the literary masterpiece has not been altered! It is just the same brilliant writing it has always been. I can just imagine the staff meeting when it was rolled out.
Jack (dressed as Statesman): So, today we're going to talk about my vision.. Positron (eating something): Jack...we were supposed to be talking about taskforces and what they'll bring to City of Heroes. Jack: .... but my vision. Positron: We'll come back to that, I swear. Jack: Well..okay, but I do have a vision.. Positron: Okay, so we're to Citadel's TF. Well Citadel, what do you have for us? Citadel: Well its going to be really good. Jack: Does it fit my vision? Positron: ... Citadel: I think so, see, I'm going to have the team go into a base and defeat all the soldiers. Positron: *encouraging* That's a good start. Citadel: Next, I'll have them go into -another- base and defeat all the soldiers. Positron: *pauses* Okaaaay. Citadel: *excited now* THEN, I'll have them go into yet ANOTHER base. See, this is the good part. I'll add OBJECTS they have to CLICK to complete it too! Two goals they have to achieve at once!! Positron: ... so Jack, about this vision... Can we kill off Citadel and leave Statesman alone? |
To the Mr. Britisher, you've obviously never played Maria Jenkins arc. You know, the one where Statesman goes missing and you have to go around and look for him? You know, like he disappears? I'm guessing you must have missed that arc.
Arc ID: 348998 - Becoming a villain
Arc ID: 373341 - To Save a Hero
Got Inf?
I bet you can run statesmans TF while in that arc, though.
Well yes, but that's because there's no 'disappearing contacts' in Paragon and the Rogue Isles. (Dare I say "...yet"?)
Also the new Maria Jenkins has States going missing midway through the arc, which makes a bit more sense (to me at least).
I think there could easily be a few '[Insert name of major character] Dies!' arcs, heck with tips even characters like Ravenstorm (Striga Isle trainer) are getting in on the action and *drools* Apex's TF is coming in Issue 19. I'm dribbling fanboyishly in anticipation that Horus MIGHT be in it! But to 'kill off' States is going a bit far.
It would be like doing the Countess Crey arc, arresting her, and from then on all Crey content being banned for the character(s) that participate.
Statesman is more of an icon. He is a beacon of good, with a dark past (yadda yadda), who represents the fight for freedom. In the comics he's a bit of a jerk, but then he is the avatar of Zeus. And as all RPers know, God moders (especially in pocket D) are equally jerks.
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Interesting...
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Originally Posted by Soloist
-Maybe have a whole event revolving around the death, or maybe disappearance, of Statesman.
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"Goodbye, Jean-Luc. I'm gonna miss you... you had such potential. But then again, all good things must come to an end..." -- Q
Its a zombie thread! That...predicted the future!
"I have something to say! It's better to burn out then to fade away!"
Necroing these sorts of threads is ok though - it's fun to see how accurate some people have been
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
You see killing off Statesman...
Eh...it isn't a huge deal, you'd need someone to replace him, a few arcs would need a rework, nothing a standard Issue couldn't fix.
But by killing off Statesman you also have to kill off Lord Recluse (otherwise what is to stop him just romping around and generally being a goit).
Now killing off Lord Recluse THAT is a major issue.
The problem being that Arachnos would fall into infighting between the four Patrons and probably Dr Aeon which means 90% of the CoV content needs either a complete rewrite or vast tweaking, heck just the four patron arcs alone (the full ones, from lackey to equal to Lord Recluse) are an amazingly mental over 100 missions alone (Each 40-50 Patron Destined one storyline is over 20 mission IIRC) and they would need to be completely rewritten.
This means that the Isles themselves need to be redesigned, which faction of Arachnos holds what? The tower in Grandville would certainly not be left standing. It also leaves a rather large power vacumn for other villain groups to move in during the chaos caused by the 'Arachnos War'.
The problem is that the Destined one schtick is so ingrained into CoV that without it, there really isn't a hell of a lot of story backbone.
In short, killing Statesman, work but not a bucketload of work, Killing Recluse is an almost Going Rogue level amount of work.