I wonder when we'll get some more I:19 - Alpha Strike news
By
Anti_Proton,
Posted on: 2010-10-04 13:27 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
The Devs are juggling a fundamental concept that has to be balanced out in all MMOs: How do they give players more power without pushing things over the edge allowing players to have god-like Tankmages? Honestly I'm not really sure how they are going to keep things from going too far with this Incarnate system. 
I mean I already have several fully Purple-IO'd characters who are practically god-like right now. Just how much more all-powerful will the Devs let me make those kinds of characters? I'm not really saying I -don't- want the Incarnate system to happen. I'm just going to be very interested whether the Devs will be able to make it a significant system without unbalancing the game with it.
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True my softcapped Invuln/SS tanker is pretty godlike at the moment, the only thing she lacks is damage which I think the Alpha slot would give her a 12% overall damage increase, not much but it is there.
It's when you get into the further slots that the balancing problem is going to become a big issue*.
An IO'd out Tanker with attacks that cause a stacking damage resistance debuff, can summon a buffing ally pet, has an extreme damage ranged/Player based AoE and does more damage.
Yeah it is going to take a hell of a lot of work to get there but once you're there...dang...
*If they remain the same as they were when we last saw them.
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I remember the fire damage one, but not a toxic damage one. There was also a -regen one.|
Originally Posted by Dr_Mechano
Additional toxic damage to all your attacks. Additional fire damage to all your attacks. |
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Ah yeah...you are correct, there wasn't a toxic one, that was me being hopeful and there was a -regen one.
Still, outfit four of your team with the stacking damage res debuff one and four with -regen one and any normal AVs or GMs are going to be in serious trouble.
I took pictures of the slots as they were on test (not beta, the accidental leak to test) but I run afoul of Mod 12 enough so I'm not going to push my luck. 
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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Let's discuss worse case scenarios. So we get Tankmages...at 50...after earning a bunch of slots.|
Originally Posted by Lothic
The Devs are juggling a fundamental concept that has to be balanced out in all MMOs: How do they give players more power without pushing things over the edge allowing players to have god-like Tankmages? Honestly I'm not really sure how they are going to keep things from going too far with this Incarnate system.
I mean I already have several fully Purple-IO'd characters who are practically god-like right now. Just how much more all-powerful will the Devs let me make those kinds of characters? I'm not really saying I -don't- want the Incarnate system to happen. I'm just going to be very interested whether the Devs will be able to make it a significant system without unbalancing the game with it. |
-We'll have people soloing at +4x8.
We already have that with some ATs. The game hasn't exploded.
-People start soloing Monsters and GMs.
The rewards for GMs and Monsters are so meager it's not really worth doing more than once for bragging rights.
-People start soloing the existing level 50 TFs.
Again, see above. There are already better ways to farm.
-The current level 50 content will be trivialized.
It's already trivial for some. As it should be, this is a game not a job. If you want challenge from the content we have now, don't be an Incarnate, just like now if you find the game too easy, don't IO out and min/max.
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Famous last words...
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Originally Posted by EvilGeko
lol yeah. They could just put that on test right now. What could possibly go wrong?
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Unlike most other MMOs, in this one, Tankmages are actually completely and utterly theme appropriate, so why not actually let the players work to it and have it? |
Originally Posted by Lothic
How do they give players more power without pushing things over the edge allowing players to have god-like Tankmages?
|
They've already shown a willingness for this with IOs and the expanded difficulty options, so I really don't see why they have to stop now.
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Technically, even though the leak was on Test and not the GR Test, but since only people in the GR beta at the time could get on Test...eh nevermind.|
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
I took pictures of the slots as they were on test (not beta, the accidental leak to test) but I run afoul of Mod 12 enough so I'm not going to push my luck.
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Mod 12 nuked the thread in the beta forum with pictures. Which is odd, because they've done little to stop people from talking about it since.
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A new Mender?!! GAH. WORK FASTER, DEVS.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
I hope they keep Mender Ramiel as the contact - he had some cool shades
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...Yeah, that's actually more important to me than... well, everything else I've heard about I19.
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Sadly I'm pretty sure the Devs can't count on players to be "self-regulating" about these kinds of things. If players are allowed to break a game (any game) by exploiting the limits of what's allowed they'll do it. |
Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
Let's discuss worse case scenarios. So we get Tankmages...at 50...after earning a bunch of slots.
-We'll have people soloing at +4x8. We already have that with some ATs. The game hasn't exploded. -People start soloing Monsters and GMs. The rewards for GMs and Monsters are so meager it's not really worth doing more than once for bragging rights. -People start soloing the existing level 50 TFs. Again, see above. There are already better ways to farm. -The current level 50 content will be trivialized. It's already trivial for some. As it should be, this is a game not a job. If you want challenge from the content we have now, don't be an Incarnate, just like now if you find the game too easy, don't IO out and min/max. |
We have seen nearly countless nerfs over the years where the Devs of this game have LOWERED our capabilities just enough to let people "comfortably fit" into the level 50 power levels you listed off.
I simply have a reasonable concern that the Incarnate system could possibly serve to re-upset that balance established over the years. I'd hate to think a month after Incarnates go live we're going to have to be hit by yet another round of nerfs to make it all work again.
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Quote:
They've shown a "willingness" to give us these things only after many, many NERFS over the years allowed for a game that had some "wiggle room" to inch back up towards Incarnates. Don't confuse the inclusion of the Incarnate system as a hint from the Devs that they now love tankmagery. |
Originally Posted by Eiko-chan
Unlike most other MMOs, in this one, Tankmages are actually completely and utterly theme appropriate, so why not actually let the players work to it and have it?
They've already shown a willingness for this with IOs and the expanded difficulty options, so I really don't see why they have to stop now. |
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Thank you devs and/or community team. The EvilGeko is MOST pleased with the Issue 19 feature list.
MOST PLEASED!!1!!one!!!11!
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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While I wasn't around for ED or the GDN, the stories I've heard of those days, save for pre-fix Regen, don't really seem to exceed the capabilities of a modern IO'd character. Most of the "nerfs" I've seen since I've started playing regularly have largely been in the direction of making sure that no one powerset or AT outperforms all others, rather than being universal downgrades of all players. |
Originally Posted by Lothic
They've shown a "willingness" to give us these things only after many, many NERFS over the years allowed for a game that had some "wiggle room" to inch back up towards Incarnates. Don't confuse the inclusion of the Incarnate system as a hint from the Devs that they now love tankmagery.
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In other words, the devs are trying to make everyone a superhero, instead of just the Brutes and Scrappers.
http://www.cityofheroes.com/news/gam..._overview.html
I may have missed the link, so here it is for those who haven't clicked elsewhere.
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<points at Issue 19 feature notes>|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
I hope they keep Mender Ramiel as the contact - he had some cool shades
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| Mender Ramiel in Ouroboros guides players on this journey. |
Arc #40529 : The Furies of the Earth
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I have a picture of him from when he was still in the GR closed beta - but I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post it or now now.|
Originally Posted by flashrains
A new Mender?!! GAH. WORK FASTER, DEVS.
...Yeah, that's actually more important to me than... well, everything else I've heard about I19. |
He was the contact that told you about Incarnates and the alpha slot - so if they're going to add an arc to unlock the alpha slot, he seems the most likely contact to give it.
Positron said recently that they wanted to make the arc give us more of the lore behind Incarnates too, rather than just making the slot something you could buy.
@Golden Girl
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I just wanna know a release date! HA HA HA HA!
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It seems that the Dual Pistols Ammo swap ability was a kind of test bed for adding additional effects to attacks.
The new Fiery Embrace was probably them making sure they could get it to work (adds fire damage to all attacks).
From what I can remember on test the utility/damage bonus choices were:
A stackable def debuff every time one of your attack lands, the rarer the power slotted, the longer the debuff lasted so the higher you could stack it.
A stackable damage res debuff operating like above.
Additional toxic damage to all your attacks.
Additional fire damage to all your attacks.
I know that for my main tanker I'm going to be selecting an Uncommon additional damage global enhancement (thanks to being IO'd and at softcap for all but Psi she would gain nothing from the def global enhancement and the rare ones really didn't enhance the damage component any further just added Immobilize/hold/confuse duration and additional recovery, great for controllers, crappy for pretty much anything else) and the rare stacking damage resistance debuff.
Actually that highlights the one major problem I had with the Alpha slot, all the choices available added virtually nothing if you were an IO'd out melee character, even then the global def enhancement would only add as much as an additional steadfast protection res/global def IO.
Though I admit for things like Super reflexes it makes hitting the softcap that much easier and probably saves on buying a few IO sets purely for the def bonus.