Habitable planet discovered nearby! (Well, relatively nearby)
By
beyeajus,
Posted on: 2010-09-29 21:29 in Comic and Hero-Villain Culture
Obviously, that technology already exists. I mean, there's a picture of the planet right at the top of the page. How'd they get that if they didn't warp to it?!?!
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Droid.
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Originally Posted by Spawn_of_Santa
Obviously, that technology already exists. I mean, there's a picture of the planet right at the top of the page. How'd they get that if they didn't warp to it?!?!
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"If I had Force powers, vacuum or not my cape/clothes/hair would always be blowing in the Dramatic Wind." - Tenzhi
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Screw them, it is our God given right to spread freedom and liberty to alien worlds, with our guns and nukes!|
Originally Posted by Nightphall
With the current generation of humans populating the planet, we would be doing more harm than good.
I guarantee there would be some politician or tycoon out there thinking how he can amass more power and become richer from this. I really would not rather the rest of the universe get corrupted in the way our current society is. Then again, there may be a species out there that makes us look like saints. Who knows. |
And that claim is by the right of our manifest destiny to overspread and to possess the whole of planets which Providence has given us for the development of the great experiment of liberty and federated self-government entrusted to us! Hoorah!
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So, Tankers, eh?
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Originally Posted by Teikiatsu
To travel to other planets is going to take a lot of maturity, the people who go out are going to have to be self sufficient and stable enough to handle isolation. Anything less and they won't survive.
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I realize it's a tad bit cheesy to reference the Matrix movies but that one scene where Agent Smith is telling Morpheus that he's figured out that human beings are really more like viruses than mammals actually does make a lot of sense. We do in fact have a history of spreading around and using up all the natural resources of a place before having to move on to somewhere else.|
Originally Posted by Comeuppance
Gotta be honest here, the way we treat things, I hope humans never inhabit another planet.
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Sadly I suspect if we are to last as an expanding technology-based species for much longer than say another thousand years at this point our long term survival will probably depend on our ability to reach and exploit other Earth-like planets like this one.
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That's ridiculous Lothic. It makes sense in the Industrial -> Modern Age Basically 150-200 years, but before that we lived in a pretty balanced state and in the next hundred years we will live in a balanced or negative waste state...or we will die out or our entire civilization will be destroyed.
This age is either the last age of man (or at least our civilization as we know it) or the first steps into adulthood in cosmic terms. And if it is our last age for our civ or species...well it probably won't be for another 500 million years before tech gets to our level again, even if we survive, due to the fact that oil allowed for a lot of our technology to become practical and exist and for oil to replenish it will take about that long to do ^.^ That's if our world survives too.
So long story short...I wouldn't worry too much about us acting like viruses ^.^
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Think about what I said before you dismiss it out of hand. |
Originally Posted by Durakken
That's ridiculous Lothic. It makes sense in the Industrial -> Modern Age Basically 150-200 years, but before that we lived in a pretty balanced state and in the next hundred years we will live in a balanced or negative waste state...or we will die out or our entire civilization will be destroyed.
This age is either the last age of man (or at least our civilization as we know it) or the first steps into adulthood in cosmic terms. And if it is our last age for our civ or species...well it probably won't be for another 500 million years before tech gets to our level again, even if we survive, due to the fact that oil allowed for a lot of our technology to become practical and exist and for oil to replenish it will take about that long to do ^.^ That's if our world survives too. So long story short...I wouldn't worry too much about us acting like viruses ^.^ |
When I said if we are to advance as an "expanding technology-based species" pretty much makes the assumption if we are going to continue living wastefully as we have in what you call the Modern Age (a.k.a. the age of oil-based civilization). Obviously if things change for the better and we stop wasting our natural resources then we could perhaps Reach for the Stars for the purposes of scientific curiosity as opposed to the single-minded need for resources to survive.
But even before the Age of Oil, and really even before the Age of Agriculture, we humans for most of our several hundred thousand year H. Sapiens history lived nomadic lives, constantly moving around to follow the herds for food or moving on when the local food ran out. As I implied referencing the "Matrix virus" concept was a bit cheesy, but it actually does characterize much of human history with a relatively easy-to-understand concept.
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I'd say it is much more likely for us to expand to the stars based on the need for further resources that we have depleted on this planet (virus-like) than it would be for us to decide to stop over utilizing available resources and live more in balance. The former would offer the opportunity for us to sustain our lifestyles at current levels of waste while the latter would require us to alter our lifestyles to reduce waste levels.
I don't see us, as a whole, deciding to live without many of the luxuries we have grown accustomed to even if the alternative might be extinction. Instead, like our ancestors before us, we'll migrate to another plentiful resource and overuse it until it is depleted as well.
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"expanding technology". You sound technophobic. Technological growth does not coincided with wastefulness. Wastefulness comes from outdated thinking, inability to understand ecosystems, and building on old systems.|
Originally Posted by Lothic
Think about what I said before you dismiss it out of hand.
When I said if we are to advance as an "expanding technology-based species" pretty much makes the assumption if we are going to continue living wastefully as we have in what you call the Modern Age (a.k.a. the age of oil-based civilization).. |
We live wastefully largely for the same reason Win 7 is better than Win XP. We weren't thinking about efficiency when we built our world and just because we have better technologies and short cuts, adding them onto the old programming, while it might make them run a bit faster, you are still wasting 75% of the potential of the system.
That's something I would mind seeing. The plans for building a world efficiently. It wouldn't look anything like Earth ^.^
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Neither do I, but you are assuming that to become a non-viral species we'd have to. That is flawed.
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Originally Posted by Zybron1
I don't see us, as a whole, deciding to live without many of the luxuries we have grown accustomed to
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20 light years away...
That means they're probably watching Cop Rock even as we speak.
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I don't see any historical evidence to suggest that we can be non-viral. Every significant advance in technology has resulted in a corresponding increase in our population, life-span, and resource consumption. This, in turn, has led us to develop more efficient, better technologies that, in turn, leads to population growth, etc. It's not necessarily a bad thing, since I believe it will eventually lead us off of this planet and onto others, but it's definitely virus-like.|
Originally Posted by Durakken
Neither do I, but you are assuming that to become a non-viral species we'd have to. That is flawed.
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Unless as a species we decide to control population levels and manage consumption levels in that manner, we'll continue to be viral in nature. I think it more likely we'll alleviate our over-population issues by expanding to other planets than to legislate our drive to procreate.
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I'm not "technophobic" at all and I made no implication of that either. I'm simply stressing the word "expanding" because that denotes the critical concept of this discussion.|
Originally Posted by Durakken
"expanding technology". You sound technophobic. Technological growth does not coincided with wastefulness. Wastefulness comes from outdated thinking, inability to understand ecosystems, and building on old systems.
We live wastefully largely for the same reason Win 7 is better than Win XP. We weren't thinking about efficiency when we built our world and just because we have better technologies and short cuts, adding them onto the old programming, while it might make them run a bit faster, you are still wasting 75% of the potential of the system. That's something I would mind seeing. The plans for building a world efficiently. It wouldn't look anything like Earth ^.^ |
While it would be nice if we could collectively wave a magic wand and restructure our society based on non-wasteful paradigms that follow reasonable rates of growth and development we sadly live in the "real" world which operates a bit more primally and opportunistically. It's not easy to drop thousands (if not millions) of years of evolutional-based thinking just because we think we've outgrown all of that as of last week.
I actually sincerely hope we get to some kind of Star Trek like utopia at some point and the sooner the better. But until something very radically changes we are far more likely going to be justifying the huge effort to reach another solar system based on the "wasteful viral" model before we go based on the "happy-shiny Star Trek" model.
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Not true.|
Originally Posted by Zybron1
I don't see any historical evidence to suggest that we can be non-viral. Every significant advance in technology has resulted in a corresponding increase in our population, life-span, and resource consumption. This, in turn, has led us to develop more efficient, better technologies that, in turn, leads to population growth, etc. It's not necessarily a bad thing, since I believe it will eventually lead us off of this planet and onto others, but it's definitely virus-like.
Unless as a species we decide to control population levels and manage consumption levels in that manner, we'll continue to be viral in nature. I think it more likely we'll alleviate our over-population issues by expanding to other planets than to legislate our drive to procreate. |
Technological increase results less reproduction.
The reasons there are large amounts of reproduction that happens are...
Religion...
OR
Families farm their own food thus need more children to farm their food in an endless cycle...
OR
Low survival rate which means you need to have more children to insure survival of DNA.
With technology and education we've seen all 3 of those be reduced and lead to lower reproduction numbers to balanced out or in the case of the United Sates of America a reduction in population.
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Unfortunately what happens in the United States does not adequately reflect what's going on with the ENTIRE human race across the ENTIRE planet. You really have to look at the big picture when you're talking about the human race collectively becoming a multi-planet species.
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Originally Posted by Durakken
Not true.
Technological increase results less reproduction. The reasons there are large amounts of reproduction that happens are... Religion... OR Families farm their own food thus need more children to farm their food in an endless cycle... OR Low survival rate which means you need to have more children to insure survival of DNA. With technology and education we've seen all 3 of those be reduced and lead to lower reproduction numbers to balanced out or in the case of the United Sates of America a reduction in population. |
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Um, you may want to check your facts. Never in the history of census calculations has the US ever had a reduction in population numbers. (http://www.census.gov/history/www/th...es/fast_facts/)|
Originally Posted by Durakken
Not true.
Technological increase results less reproduction. The reasons there are large amounts of reproduction that happens are... Religion... OR Families farm their own food thus need more children to farm their food in an endless cycle... OR Low survival rate which means you need to have more children to insure survival of DNA. With technology and education we've seen all 3 of those be reduced and lead to lower reproduction numbers to balanced out or in the case of the United Sates of America a reduction in population. |
But these are all immigrants, right? No, not really. Immigration is a significant factor, but if we take world census calculations into account then immigration is no longer a factor. And, similarly, there has always been an increase in population numbers as long as population data has been recorded: http://www.vaughns-1-pagers.com/hist...ion-growth.htm
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The fact that the population is increasing is irrelevant, it's how the rate of population increases which is more relevant.|
Originally Posted by Zybron1
Um, you may want to check your facts. Never in the history of census calculations has the US ever had a reduction in population numbers. (http://www.census.gov/history/www/th...es/fast_facts/)
But these are all immigrants, right? No, not really. Immigration is a significant factor, but if we take world census calculations into account then immigration is no longer a factor. And, similarly, there has always been an increase in population numbers as long as population data has been recorded: http://www.vaughns-1-pagers.com/hist...ion-growth.htm |
Population will always increase, unless something truly terrible happens across the board, but the rate at which it increases (the % it goes up by compared to the last census) is what is important.
Generally as living conditions get better and education gets better that rate of population increase slows down over time. Basically as living conditions get better, infant mortality rates go down and education and equality between the sexes improves people tend to have fewer children. Not enough for negative growth, but the curve slows down.
This was highlighted in a programme I've saw on TV based in India where a wealth Southern province with a much better education system and standard of living had dramatically smaller families than the rest of the country (1 or 2 children per couple).
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Fair enough. Even if we take population growth out of the equation advances in technology will still lead to increased consumption due to increased life-spans. Though I highly doubt we would ever reach a point where we would voluntarily adopt a zero-population growth without resource limitations requiring us to do so.
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Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
The fact that the population is increasing is irrelevant, it's how the rate of population increases which is more relevant.
Population will always increase, unless something truly terrible happens across the board, but the rate at which it increases (the % it goes up by compared to the last census) is what is important. Generally as living conditions get better and education gets better that rate of population increase slows down over time. Basically as living conditions get better, infant mortality rates go down and education and equality between the sexes improves people tend to have fewer children. Not enough for negative growth, but the curve slows down. This was highlighted in a programme I've saw on TV based in India where a wealth Southern province with a much better education system and standard of living had dramatically smaller families than the rest of the country (1 or 2 children per couple). |
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Actually the "rate" of increase is the irrelevant part. As long as there is ANY increase in world population, even if it's very slow growth, there's going to be an ever increasing pressure on finite resources. We might be able to avert a resource crisis for a long time using fancy technology tricks. But sooner or later we are either going to have to STOP that growth completely or move some people off this planet, period.
Problem is that overall world population is currently NOT growing slowly. Sure the rate in so-called advanced countries may be relatively slow, but when taken together the total world population is currently exploding like never before.
Once again I do hope for a Star Trek like future for us all. But if our collective history is any indication our first steps into the galaxy will far more likely be on-board ships prefixed with "ISS" instead of "USS". You Star Trek nerds out there know what I mean by that. 
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Did I miss something? Has the definition of the word "habitable" changed lately? |
Originally Posted by Mr_Squid
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| Temperatures in the terminator area might be between -24 and 10 degrees Fahrenheit |
I couldn't help but feel like the article just wanted to make a splash.
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Well when you consider most of the planets we've discovered so far are gas giants that spin around their stars in like 12 hours and have atmospheric temperatures of like 10,000 degrees this latest discovery seems pretty "habitable" to me. I guess everything's relative. |
Originally Posted by Rylas
Did I miss something? Has the definition of the word "habitable" changed lately?
Uhm, no thanks. They haven't even confirmed that there's water there. Or breathable air. Now, something could be living on that planet. But it wouldn't ever be us. I couldn't help but feel like the article just wanted to make a splash. |
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This makes me think of the aliens from Independence Day, and what the President says about them; "They're like locusts. They're moving from planet to planet, their whole civilization. After they've consumed every natural resource, they move on. And we're next."|
Originally Posted by Lothic
Actually the "rate" of increase is the irrelevant part. As long as there is ANY increase in world population, even if it's very slow growth, there's going to be an ever increasing pressure on finite resources. We might be able to avert a resource crisis for a long time using fancy technology tricks. But sooner or later we are either going to have to STOP that growth completely or move some people off this planet, period.
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Problem is that overall world population is currently NOT growing slowly. Sure the rate in so-called advanced countries may be relatively slow, but when taken together the total world population is currently exploding like never before.
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Once again I do hope for a Star Trek like future for us all. But if our collective history is any indication our first steps into the galaxy will far more likely be on-board ships prefixed with "ISS" instead of "USS". You Star Trek nerds out there know what I mean by that.
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New definitions of the terms "habitable" and "nearby," I take it?
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Again relative to most of the planets we've found so far and relative to typical galactic distances these two words actually do apply to this new planet fairly well. |
Originally Posted by DumpleBerry
New definitions of the terms "habitable" and "nearby," I take it?
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Gotta be honest here, the way we treat things, I hope humans never inhabit another planet.
"They've got us surrounded again, the poor bastards." - General Creighton W. Abrams