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I hadn't considered that and I think it's a great point to bring up to the devs... if they get a new workable/expandable system in for bases... they could sell "upgrade packs" to add more content to them much like costumes... this could be another incentive to devote some time/effort to this.
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Originally Posted by pixelforge
what they don't just give us - they could sell with base expansion packs - once personal lairs available.
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Jem - Ill/Rad Controller Lv 50+3 Nic - Mind/Psi Dominator Lv 50+3 Lady Liberation - Invuln/SS Tanker Lv 50+1 Invicitx - Demon/Pain Mastermind Lv 50+1 Celeste - Emp/Arch Defender Lv 50+1 Nightsilver - DB/WP Scrapper Lv 34 Dusk Howl - StJ/Regen Brute Lv 32 Kyriani - Time/Energy Defender Lv 41Psifire - FF/Psi Defender Lv 50
Star Lighter - LB/LA Peacebringer Lv 30
I'm afraid that a totally new base building system would break/invalidate every existing base, and the fury that would cause will be the reason the devs decline to do it. (If I'd put hundreds of hours into building a base, I'd be upset if it were wiped away, too.)
The only way I can see it possibly happening is that the new system is placed alongside the old system, and the old system deprecated. New bases would have to be built in the new system, while old bases could be maintained and even expanded under the old system. Perhaps any base that hadn't been visited for a year would be deleted out of the old system. There'd need to be a way to refund the cost of the old bases to entice people to nuke it and start over from scratch.
I'm afraid that any ideas we come up with will more likely be implemented in CoH2, if and when that is designed.
Some interesting thoughts. However I wish to make a few points:
1) If the new Base Editor were better and made it easier to replicate existing bases AND all Prestige were refunded I'd be willing to bet that many Base builders would be willing to crash their old one. Building the new one would have to be less tedious and more fun however.
2) Personal apartments are much-desired however they enable one-person SGs, something that the Devs are not in favor of. They would rather see the SG/Base model as they designed it.
However one idea that's been floated around is putting personal apartments INSIDE SG Bases. The character could buy the apartment space (costing Inf) and then decorate it as they see fit. If they bought an upgrade they might include personal storage. This would address something else players desperately want: More secure yet accessible Storage. The apartment could be locked to prevent anyone from entering or editing it as long as the character was in the SG.
3) The idea of a Base Pack has also gone out but there is a problem: If a person belongs to a SG and they don't buy the Pack and another player does, how is this resolved in their shared Base? If only the Base designer has to buy the Pack then there will not be many sales.
I think Apartments, as well as other things, can be in the pack. They would not affect players who don't buy it and even if they get to see some new artwork or whatever it's not game-breaking.
4) Functionality is also a big 'Me Want' on player's lists. ICon reps, Market kiosks and so forth are all high on the list. The other item often asked for is NPC to make Bases seem less empty. I'd like to see the Mission Computer expanded into almost an Mission Architect terminal to find or design missions for the SG members.
If we can collectively convince the Devs that enough players really want Base changes they'll take notice.
"Comics, you're not a Mastermind...you're an Overlord!"
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A new system does not necessarily have to break or invalidate anything... having a simple "switch" to decide which you want to use (much like how you change from build to build) is all it would take to preserve legacy bases and yet still allow for a new system.
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Originally Posted by Dr_Occult
I'm afraid that a totally new base building system would break/invalidate every existing base, and the fury that would cause will be the reason the devs decline to do it. (If I'd put hundreds of hours into building a base, I'd be upset if it were wiped away, too.)
The only way I can see it possibly happening is that the new system is placed alongside the old system, and the old system deprecated. New bases would have to be built in the new system, while old bases could be maintained and even expanded under the old system. Perhaps any base that hadn't been visited for a year would be deleted out of the old system. There'd need to be a way to refund the cost of the old bases to entice people to nuke it and start over from scratch. I'm afraid that any ideas we come up with will more likely be implemented in CoH2, if and when that is designed. |
Jem - Ill/Rad Controller Lv 50+3 Nic - Mind/Psi Dominator Lv 50+3 Lady Liberation - Invuln/SS Tanker Lv 50+1 Invicitx - Demon/Pain Mastermind Lv 50+1 Celeste - Emp/Arch Defender Lv 50+1 Nightsilver - DB/WP Scrapper Lv 34 Dusk Howl - StJ/Regen Brute Lv 32 Kyriani - Time/Energy Defender Lv 41Psifire - FF/Psi Defender Lv 50
Star Lighter - LB/LA Peacebringer Lv 30
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I say Goodbye to the old Base. I would use the new system and completely rebuild, provided they give us the option to get the Prestige invested and stored. I can spend hours if not days in the existing Base Builder when I really get into it. I've dumped and completely revamped my Main Base three times, just because I wanted to change the layout and look. My other two bases are works in progress, so Zapp them too. Just give me back the Prestige. Somebody said something about the NWN Toolset as a model? Give me NWN2 Toolset!|
Originally Posted by Kyriani
A new system does not necessarily have to break or invalidate anything... having a simple "switch" to decide which you want to use (much like how you change from build to build) is all it would take to preserve legacy bases and yet still allow for a new system.
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I wish this Committee luck in getting anywhere. I have been on and off this Forum for like three or four years, and I haven't seen the Devs pay us any "luv" at all, except with I13. I will try to think of things that will help, and post back, but selling the SG/Base to the Player Base will only happen if the SG/Base has something FUNCTIONAL to offer that can't be gotten everywhere else in the game. The Devs have clearly moved away from that.
Black-Strike: lvl 50 AR/Dark Corruptor
Brutally Beautiful: lvl 50 BA/Inv Brute
Seared Earth: lvl 50 EC/EA Dominator
Yashi Onuku: lvl 50 Ninja Blade/Ninjitsu Stalker
Death-Widow: lvl 50 Night Widow
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Originally Posted by Black_Strike
I will try to think of things that will help, and post back, but selling the SG/Base to the Player Base will only happen if the SG/Base has something FUNCTIONAL to offer that can't be gotten everywhere else in the game. The Devs have clearly moved away from that.
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I agree. Back in the day Bases were travel hubs...but now all of the trains and ferries are linked. They were raid centers...until the CoP got broken. They were crafting centers...until many started getting Master Craftsman or just found it easier to run to the University. They were storage centers...but with all the theft and security problems if you're new to a SG good luck being able to use Storage.
Some of the things that I can see being unique to Bases:
1) Convenient Market and Store. Yes, there are zones where you can find these close together, but why not an interface inside a Base where you can do both from the same terminal? It would link your Vault to the terminal so you wouldn't have to be dashing hither and yon for components. The run-time from Market to Store is just dead time anyway and doesn't seem to deter any sort of buying and selling. The last few Issues have given us many QoL things so why not this one?
2) ICon interface. Merit Vendor. MA terminal and Ticket Vendor. These would be easy to install and are often asked for.
3) Personal Apartments. As I explained up-thread this might go a long way towards giving players a good mix of what they want in the way of decorating rights and storage without enabling them to damage a long-standing Base design. Plus if they had to buy it with Inf it would provide an Inf sink which is something the Devs apparently want.
4) Training Room. I've been chomping at the bit for one of these for a long time. The basic level would just be targets like the Rikti Drones or whatever. Players could get a real feel for how their AoEs work, attack chains and so forth before going into the field. At higher levels (costing more Pres and Inf) maybe it would be more like the Arena where you could have unlocked foes to practice against. SG teams could develop tactics and PvPers could practice without having to leave the Base.
5) Overwatch. Remember the guy in the van with the headset while his partner breaks into the highly-secure secret whatever? What if you could do this for a team through the Overwatch Terminal at the base? Basically one SG member stays in the Base at the Terminal and feeds the team support by means of reinforcements and hacking (expressed as minor buffs for the team and debuffs for the enemy). Better Terminals might help reveal where a glowie or hostage is located, when an ambush is about to strike and so on. The ultimate extension of this would be the team on Vent as the person on Overwatch talks them through the mission. The person on Overwatch gets say half the exps and Inf that they would have gotten on the team (some effort but zero risk).
6) SG bonuses. SGs need to be more than a social gathering. We have Pocket D and Studio 55 for that. What if having every member on the team being in the SG resulted in a small bonus like an extra Merit or two or an extra chance at a drop? Coalitions could work the same way but on a smaller scale (like half the bonus for all-SG participation). If the bonus is small it wouldn't be game-breaking or discourage teams from inviting non-SG members but it would be something.
Bases and SGs need to be useful again or only the hard-core Base designers and RPers will show any interest.
"Comics, you're not a Mastermind...you're an Overlord!"
I use my base all the time still =\
My teleporter network is used frequently especially when I know the arrival point is more convenient than where the tram will drop me off.
When I want to craft IOs I go to my base not a university. My base is always within quick reach.
I'm a packrat and store tons of inspirations, salvage and enhancements!
I also do most of my flashbacks from the pillar in my base.
If I die in a mission (and using a wakey isnt adviseable) I usually res in my base so I can restock on insps if needed
All in all I like having my own cozy little place that is tailored to my tastes and offers amenities for me. I just don't understand what people are talking about when they say bases have no use anymore... I use mine plenty =\
Jem - Ill/Rad Controller Lv 50+3 Nic - Mind/Psi Dominator Lv 50+3 Lady Liberation - Invuln/SS Tanker Lv 50+1 Invicitx - Demon/Pain Mastermind Lv 50+1 Celeste - Emp/Arch Defender Lv 50+1 Nightsilver - DB/WP Scrapper Lv 34 Dusk Howl - StJ/Regen Brute Lv 32 Kyriani - Time/Energy Defender Lv 41Psifire - FF/Psi Defender Lv 50
Star Lighter - LB/LA Peacebringer Lv 30
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Its not that they don't have a use anymore but back when bases first came out if you wanted to get from one zone like atlas to say Eden you finally had a shortcut. I think back than base porters were a godsend. Now between the O portal, Vanguard bases, Wentworths teleporters, mission and pocket d teleporters, and having all the ferrys and train lines connected travel time is next to nothing. That alone devalued bases quite a bit. |
Originally Posted by Kyriani
I use my base all the time still =\
My teleporter network is used frequently especially when I know the arrival point is more convenient than where the tram will drop me off. When I want to craft IOs I go to my base not a university. My base is always within quick reach. I'm a packrat and store tons of inspirations, salvage and enhancements! I also do most of my flashbacks from the pillar in my base. If I die in a mission (and using a wakey isnt adviseable) I usually res in my base so I can restock on insps if needed All in all I like having my own cozy little place that is tailored to my tastes and offers amenities for me. I just don't understand what people are talking about when they say bases have no use anymore... I use mine plenty =\ |
I'm sure for almost every advantage bases gave players are now available from other in game sources/places.
"I think I'm cute. I've got gold medals.
I've got the moves that make them all tap out.
The Angle Slam, the Ankle Lock.
Marty Jannetty...still can't walk.
I'm just the sexy Kurt.
I'll make your ankle hurt.
I'm just the sexy Kurt.
I'll make your ankle hurt."
Kurt Angle
That's probably at least partly because the base system has a learning curve that's nearly vertical. And up until fairly recently, bases had prestige costs so high that only the most intensely dedicated player could hope to have a solo base. Even with the cost reductions, the prestige cost for more than a basic base (entry portal, maybe a medbay, a teleporter or two, and some storage racks) is still a lot even for a small SG. Toss in the fact that the base editor is somewhere between difficult and insanely difficult to use, and I'd be willing to bet that the datamining shows that many players never use bases at all.
I'd bet there at least a small portion of the playerbase that has never even *entered* a base, or has only run through one because the team leader insisted that it would actually work as a shortcut. I usually don't do this, because it's surprising how often "my base is a good shortcut" actually means "the teleporters are way in the back, and probably arranged in an order that only makes sense to me. Maybe."
all FUTURE wants and desires aside - the one CRUCIAL thing i have on my plate as a base builder is to get the BUG that causes many effects generating items to STOP generating FX (like force fields and the stealth suppressor lasers that are the closest thing we get to Pocket D lighting). This bug has gone on long enough - I have filed multiple reports (over a year and a half period - but I think many others have experienced it longer) and I've heard it is fairly common - so if you are experiencing it too - file a report. Mention it here.
If they want to do ANYTHING to upgrade bases... making CURRENT items work as advertised is an EXCELLENT start!
Founder of The Obsidian Oath as Briarthorne
I'm sorry, but I think you are all asking too much of the Devs. Simply put...they are not going to dedicate an entire issue to bases and they will not upgrade the editor.
It would take too many resources to do so.
And maybe that's why we see nothing accomplished. Everyone is crying out for an overhaul when if they really want to see things get better, they would simply ask for items to be added to the editor.
- Like a 1/4th tile block of water.
- More floor, wall and ceiling textures.
- Building blocks or various textures and colors.
- Heck...I would love simple concrete blocks that are stackable...how hard would it be to create a stackable block with the gravel texture on it?
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Where? Tell me more!
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Originally Posted by Turbo_Starr
This has been a long time coming but we are well on our way to having proper representation thanks to several key members.
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As much as I want an issue dedicated to base building, the issue would have to be more about personal lairs (customizable mini-bases - yet possibly with some pre-fab options for those not into base building) in order to hook those who don't have access to base editor. IMHO, an issue devoted specifically to the players who use base editor won't happen without something to make it relevant and essential for all.
As long as THAT is the main feature, all kinds of great things could get added in too. Of course a deluge of all the in game objects we all crave. Personal lairs can also house same items as base - but in far more limited numbers (maybe 1/2 capacity of smallest base plot). But that could lead to some new interface items... recipe storage, tailor, vendor, trainer.
The new playable content could be quests to... find your personal lair, meet NPC's to work in your lair (or base if completed by SG team) get items used to enhance / upgrade base items by incrementally increased storage amounts (in lair or base if completed by SG team)
We need to present ideas that are not just of interest to base builders. The sort of things we want for bases can be added in easily once they find a hook that works for more players. And what they don't just give us - they could sell with base expansion packs - once personal lairs available.
Founder of The Obsidian Oath as Briarthorne