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The pools are there to give every AT generic powers that fit across ATs in the comics. As such, travel powers are there because most any AT in the comics has some type of travel power, and most ATs have some representative among them that can use the travel powers that we have.|
Originally Posted by Atago
Why there isn't any Damage Aura in the Pool Powers? I thought that the Pools are there to give the Player Powerchoices to get their Toons more rounded and give them access to Abilities which their Primaries/Secondaries do not offer. I mean there are all sorts of Powers Control/Buff/Debuff/Melee and Ranged Attacks(AOE+ST)/Stealth/Health/Stamina...the only Powers i miss are Damage Auras.
Would they imbalance the Game or what is the Reason? Enlighten me, please. |
However, they are NOT there to give all ATs all of the abilities that they 'lack.' Sure, they can be used to give some types of abilities that their AT normally wouldn't have (say, Medicine on a Tanker, for instance), but they are not there so that you can turn a Controller into a Melee AT, with plenty of melee attacks, plus aggro auras, plus mez protection, for instance.
Damage Auras aren't in the power pools because they don't fit there.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
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Why they don't fit? That was the Question.
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Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
Damage Auras aren't in the power pools because they don't fit there.
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Pool powers tend to be rather generic "anyone can have these" type powers... a damage aura is a rather specific variant, I should think. And most come in elemental damage varieties, something that simply does not appear as ANY type of pool power.
Unless you are talking Epics/Patrons... which is a whole 'nother story.
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Ummm... did you even bother to read the rest of that post? It was a pretty good and accurate description of why. Better than mine, I thought. (I posted too slow.)
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Originally Posted by Atago
Why?
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Maybe it was a bit ambiguous. I meant Epic and Patron POOL Powers.
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Originally Posted by Thirty-Seven
Unless you are talking Epics/Patrons... which is a whole 'nother story.
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Not very thematic for one thing? Even in the fighting pool, with two damage powers, they are actually kicks and punches, not an aura. I think it would be difficult to make one generic enough to be explained away by all the origins, etc.|
Originally Posted by Atago
Why they don't fit? That was the Question.
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Besides, giving my Spines/Fire scrapper access to another damage aura would be a bad idea.
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There is : World of Confusion. Controllers, Domis, Defenders and Corrupters can get it.|
Originally Posted by Atago
Maybe it was a bit ambiguous. I meant Epic and Patron POOL Powers.
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Most other ATs have a chance of getting one in their primary or secondary anyway.
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APP and PPP powers are not meant to turn your toon into something else, they are there to give each toon the diversity of powers... |
Originally Posted by Atago
Maybe it was a bit ambiguous. I meant Epic and Patron POOL Powers.
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They are Inspired by defining attributes of other AT's...
for example...
Blasters get a taste of Resistance or Defensive type powers.
Defenders get a taste of control
Scrappers get a taste of Range
Masterminds get a taste of Blast
etc etc....
There are no PbAoe Taunt auras in APP + PPP as it is not the defining attribute of any other set, if it was it would be a tank or brute, and the defining attribute you get inspired from them is, Res/Def
If this is what you crave, go make a Fire / Earth Domi and take HotFeet and MudPots, Agro your heart out.
Consciousness: that annoying time between naps.
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Okay, then that is a whole 'nother can of worms. The Patron/Ancillary Power Pools are meant to provide some level of filling in the weak spots of the AT. However, there are limits, and you generally want them to be filled with things that the AT might need.|
Originally Posted by Atago
Maybe it was a bit ambiguous. I meant Epic and Patron POOL Powers.
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For instance, if we get rid of all of the ATs that have access to some sort of Damage Aura in their primary/secondaries, then we are left with four ATs that don't have access to them: Defenders, Corruptors, Stalkers, Masterminds. Of these, Stalkers would find a damage aura likely highly non-useful and counterproductive. So we'll deal with the other three mainly.
Defenders and Corruptors are meant to be ranged ATs. Their Ancillary/Patron pools tend to be about giving them access to armors, ranged mezzes, and gimmicky powers that help them out. Certainly, a damage aura could work for them, but how useful would that be for a lot of Defenders/Corruptors? Kinetics and Radiation might find them useful to some extent, and maybe Traps to leave running if they're toe-bombing, but even then, the amount of time spent in melee range is limited, and a lot of the damage potential is going to be wasted.
For Masterminds, I can see them being somewhat useful as aggro auras. However, once the MM's damage modifiers are accounted for, how much damage will these being doing, and would that be worth the endurance cost?
I could see them being put into a future ancillary pool, I just don't think they'd be taken all that often.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
Is that an anteater in your avatar, Aett?
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I would vote THIS. Though, another damage aura on my D/F brute would be sweeeeet... and destroy the game for most reasonable purposes. |
Originally Posted by SinisterDirge
Besides, giving my Spines/Fire scrapper access to another damage aura would be a bad idea. |
Another PBAOE set mule, ready-made for sick proccin' DOOM, syrupy set bonuses, and a multitude of orange sugah.
[Wait, maybe this is an idea I CAN get behind...] They'd just have to boost the baddies another 10 or 15%... and thus it begins.
Arc #6015 - Coming Unglued
"A good n00b-sauce is based on a good n00b-roux." - The Masque
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Why yes, yes it is. And he's showing the world that he's not afraid of it.
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Originally Posted by Fulmens
Is that an anteater in your avatar, Aett?
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Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
Yes, let's give Fire/Kin controllers another damage aura to pump up with Fulcrum Shift, that wouldn't be overpowered at all!
Yes, I was being somwhat sarcastic there.
The ATs a damage aura would be at all useful for already have access to them. Brutes, Scrappers, Tankers, and even some Blaster secondaries all have damage auras available to them.
Controllers get Hot Feet, and a number of other PBAoE auras with various effects. You could make a case for letting other controllers have a damage aura, but that would automatically make it available to Fire controllers (you can't disallow certain powers to one set but allow them on others, that wouldn't be fair) Another damage aura on the highest damaging controller combo (fire/kin), would be borderline or outright broken.
The last thing a Defender or Corruptor wants to do is spend time in melee range long enough for a damage aura to be at all useful (a couple ticks in the course of a fight isn't worth the end cost of running an aura)
I suppose the long and short of it is that the ATs that would benefit from a damage aura already has them available.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
OK, now i can understand the Reasons that speak against Damage Auras even if there are many Powerset-Combos which would benefit of it (i think of Tanks and Brutes with SR/WP/SD/Invul or Masterminds for Example).
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SR/WP/SD/Invuln all have their own aggro auras anyways, and all boost your offense in some way or another, too. SR gives you more Recharge to get your attacks back up sooner. WP gives you more endurance. Invuln gives you +ToHit, and Shield gives you +DMG and a full damage power. They really don't need a damage aura anyways.|
Originally Posted by Atago
OK, now i can understand the Reasons that speak against Damage Auras even if there are many Powerset-Combos which would benefit of it (i think of Tanks and Brutes with SR/WP/SD/Invul or Masterminds for Example).
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But yeah, giving them access to a damage aura means that you'd have to allow other sets that already have a damage aura to access them, too.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
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I reiterate. Controllers DID get a new PBAOE Damage Aura back in i14(ish), World of Confusion (as did Defenders and now Corrupters).|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Yes, let's give Fire/Kin controllers another damage aura to pump up with Fulcrum Shift, that wouldn't be overpowered at all!
Yes, I was being somwhat sarcastic there. The ATs a damage aura would be at all useful for already have access to them. Brutes, Scrappers, Tankers, and even some Blaster secondaries all have damage auras available to them. Controllers get Hot Feet, and a number of other PBAoE auras with various effects. You could make a case for letting other controllers have a damage aura, but that would automatically make it available to Fire controllers (you can't disallow certain powers to one set but allow them on others, that wouldn't be fair) Another damage aura on the highest damaging controller combo (fire/kin), would be borderline or outright broken. The last thing a Defender or Corruptor wants to do is spend time in melee range long enough for a damage aura to be at all useful (a couple ticks in the course of a fight isn't worth the end cost of running an aura) I suppose the long and short of it is that the ATs that would benefit from a damage aura already has them available. |
It only does 60% of a normal damage auras damage (and no containment) though, and is generally reviled.
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Those tanks and brutes who chose those sets do so knowing that they do not get damage auras. Sets with damage auras are generally regarded as "squishier," and it makes sense to trade offensive capability for defensive.
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Originally Posted by Atago
OK, now i can understand the Reasons that speak against Damage Auras even if there are many Powerset-Combos which would benefit of it (i think of Tanks and Brutes with SR/WP/SD/Invul or Masterminds for Example).
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WoC does however take 6 damage procs !
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Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
I reiterate. Controllers DID get a new PBAOE Damage Aura back in i14(ish), World of Confusion (as did Defenders and now Corrupters).
It only does 60% of a normal damage auras damage (and no containment) though, and is generally reviled. |
Consciousness: that annoying time between naps.
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It would be interesting to have the Elec Epic have the damage aura for my Kin/elec to run though. I'm pretty much standing next to the tank anyway. Add in a damage aura that also helps with end drain and it's something to look at. Adding the damage aura for Dark would be a good option as well. A Dark/* defender can hang in melee.
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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
The last thing a Defender or Corruptor wants to do is spend time in melee range long enough for a damage aura to be at all useful (a couple ticks in the course of a fight isn't worth the end cost of running an aura)
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Any damage aura that you add to Controllers is going to be abused by Fire Kins... although you can get double aura's on Fire/Stone domi's, take sould mastery for SoulDrain and you will find that domi's hit the same numbers that fulcrummed controllers do due to their brawl index, So it is possible to stack double damage auras that way.
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Originally Posted by Amy_Amp
It would be interesting to have the Elec Epic have the damage aura for my Kin/elec to run though. I'm pretty much standing next to the tank anyway. Add in a damage aura that also helps with end drain and it's something to look at. Adding the damage aura for Dark would be a good option as well. A Dark/* defender can hang in melee.
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Consciousness: that annoying time between naps.
As it was already pointed out twice, World of Confusion does exist for Defenders, Controllers, and Corruptors... AND Dominators.
Who does that leave?
Blasters (Lightning Field)
Scrappers (Quills, Death Shroud)
Tankers (Lightning Field, Fiery Aura)
WS (Orbitting Death) / PBs (neither get EPPs)
Brutes (Death Shroud, Fiery Aura, Lightning Field)
If you keep in mind that epics are not supposed to duplicate the powers in the primary/secondaries then I think the only real question is why don't Masterminds get one?
Granted you could still do it without using the EXACT same powers (give Death Shroud to Blasters or whatever), since they get Static Discharge which is a cone blast (like so many others in their sets). I think it's that the function of each of the damage auras is the same and they didn't want them to stack up.
VEATS get copies of Brutes', even if that's not right in this case.
It would be counter productive for a Stalker, the same reason these powers aren't in their secondaries.
Just imagine a Spine/Dark scrapper with Quills, Death Shroud, and an Epic damage aura...
@Gilia1
I play heroes on Champion.
I play villains on Virtue.
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It wouldn't really be counter productive to a Stalker now since a lot of auras now have a special "surpressed when hidden" toggle. But it would have been when the Stalker pool powers were being decided upon.|
Originally Posted by Gilia
As it was already pointed out twice, World of Confusion does exist for Defenders, Controllers, and Corruptors... AND Dominators.
Who does that leave? Blasters (Lightning Field) Scrappers (Quills, Death Shroud) Tankers (Lightning Field, Fiery Aura) WS (Orbitting Death) / PBs (neither get EPPs) Brutes (Death Shroud, Fiery Aura, Lightning Field) If you keep in mind that epics are not supposed to duplicate the powers in the primary/secondaries then I think the only real question is why don't Masterminds get one? Granted you could still do it without using the EXACT same powers (give Death Shroud to Blasters or whatever), since they get Static Discharge which is a cone blast (like so many others in their sets). I think it's that the function of each of the damage auras is the same and they didn't want them to stack up. VEATS get copies of Brutes', even if that's not right in this case. It would be counter productive for a Stalker, the same reason these powers aren't in their secondaries. Just imagine a Spine/Dark scrapper with Quills, Death Shroud, and an Epic damage aura... |
As for why Masterminds don't get one, no idea. I've no idea in general what whomever was thinking when they crafted the Mastermind PPPs, they're all over the place and not very useful (giving them the Blaster APPs suits them more though, either by design or happy accident).
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You quote the wrong person? I said nothing of controllers or stacking damage auras.
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Originally Posted by Donna_
Any damage aura that you add to Controllers is going to be abused by Fire Kins... although you can get double aura's on Fire/Stone domi's, take sould mastery for SoulDrain and you will find that domi's hit the same numbers that fulcrummed controllers do due to their brawl index, So it is possible to stack double damage auras that way.
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This is a reason I want Ice Armor for brutes/scraps, especially with the new easy-building fury. That's going to be a fun, fun brute, even with the exotic damage holes.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Those tanks and brutes who chose those sets do so knowing that they do not get damage auras. Sets with damage auras are generally regarded as "squishier," and it makes sense to trade offensive capability for defensive.
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No, I saw what you said. |
Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
I reiterate. Controllers DID get a new PBAOE Damage Aura back in i14(ish), World of Confusion (as did Defenders and now Corrupters).
It only does 60% of a normal damage auras damage (and no containment) though, and is generally reviled. |
I refuse to give WoC the title of "damage aura" so it doesn't count
It's a power that does crap damage in a small radius, and has a secondary effect that is outshined by a single IO put in the power (contagious confusion proc)
The only time I ever see World of Confusion taken is when someone wants to use it to mule the purple confuse set and doesn't have a confuse power in primary or secondary. I don't ever see it being used as a damage aura.
And the tank/brute/scrapper sets that don't have a damage aura gave up the extra damage for other effects. Willpower gets a crapton of regen from it's damage aura replacement, Invuln gets a bunch of defense, Shield Defense gets a damage boost to the REST of it's powers. SR gets the ability to softcap easier than anything else (honestly, SR kinda got screwed in this exchange)
Would you be willing to trade Rise to the Challenge, Invincibility, or Against All Odds for a damage aura? Because that's what those sets would have to give up to get it.
And if they got a damage aura in APPs, that would defeat the purpose of giving one up for other effects.
Another thing to consider, the sets that DO have damage auras in most cases gave up some survivability to get it. Would it be fair to give the sets that traded damage for survival the ability to get that damage back without losing the survival...while the sets that got damage instead don't get the survival back?
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Why there isn't any Damage Aura in the Epic/Patron-Pools? I thought that the Pools are there to give the Player Powerchoices to get their Toons more rounded and give them access to Abilities which their Primaries/Secondaries do not offer. I mean there are all sorts of Powers Control/Buff/Debuff/Melee and Ranged Attacks(AOE+ST)/Stealth/Health/Stamina/Pets...the only Powers i miss are Damage Auras.
Would they imbalance the Game or what is the Reason? Enlighten me, please.