what's wrong with Basliisk, Lycanus? I mean it does get a little too "Romeo and Juliette-ish" at the end, but the fights were great and the techniques were really interesting.
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Body Horror, Nightmare Fuel, Squick, Rocket-Powered Slug-men....
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Originally Posted by beyeajus
what's wrong with Basliisk, Lycanus? I mean it does get a little too "Romeo and Juliette-ish" at the end, but the fights were great and the techniques were really interesting.
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Thrythlind's Deviant Art Page
"Notice at the end, there: Arcanaville did the math and KICKED IT INTO EXISTENCE." - Ironik on the power of Arcanaville's math
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Some of my favourite (albeit cheesy) "ninja" have been in old kung fu movies. I vaguely recall one with "ninja" of each of the five elements (earth, fire, water, wood, and metal). Fun stuff. |
Originally Posted by Lycanus
in fact...Naruto has more in common with Chinese Wu Xia knight errants
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And at this point Hattori Hanzo has been romanticized into a fantastic being almost as much as, say, the Three Brothers from Romance of the Three Kingdoms.
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
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not for everyone I guess.|
Originally Posted by Lycanus
Body Horror, Nightmare Fuel, Squick, Rocket-Powered Slug-men....
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One of the primary things I've found is required to enjoying any genre of any field of entertainment is to basically ignore its fan base. Never take fan excesses as an objective measure of quality, and only ever take reviews with a pinch of salt. Ideally, stick to video reviews where available and try to pick out what goes on from the background footage.|
Originally Posted by Lycanus
I have the feeling that Naruto suffers from the idiocy of its fanbase. I must say that when I finally decided to watch it (after a roommate who would watch it regularly...and after reading Team 8) that it wasn't at all what I expected from the rumors I'd heard.
Aside from the hand signs, it's not much like ninja as we define them...more like super-martial arts spec ops, and I get the feeling that the author plays a lot of pun games to get different meanings out of ninja if we were talking about a normal fantasy setting, they'd be getting called warriors, sorcerers and the only ninja would be the Anbu in fact...Naruto has more in common with Chinese Wu Xia knight errants more Three Kingdoms, Outlaws of the Marsh or Journey to the West than Hattori Hanzo and the like. |
There are far too many phenomena where either the fans are idiots who spoil it for you, or otherwise people have developed a fictitious idea of what that is and proceed to hate that straw man, suppressing legitimately good ideas. Or both, as the case may be.
Naruto is a good example, especially the earlier series, back when the show had a budget worth a damn and an author not suffering from writer's block. It's just a fun and, yes, badass show. I still love one particular attack from the Shippuuden movie, and hot damn is that cool!
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Well, neither do the PPD. They start out as beat cops in uniform and move on to SWAT guys in fatigues. Basically, your run-of-the-mill Equaliser and Ghost are... Pretty much a carbon copy of your run of the mill Mercenaries SpecOps, but with a few powers switched around. And in the Talos Mayhem, SWAT and Hard Suits show up in the same spawns. The game already gives us precedent for "stronger = more tech" when it comes to armed forces, at least up to a point. All I'm saying is we can copy what the game has already established.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Yeah, because it doesn't actually gel that well with the rest of the set, if ya think about it. If they were all Sky Raider-esque mercs, then yeah, that'd work. As it is? An all-purpose veteran with a rocket launcher slung over his shoulder, custom-job gun that looks like it should be banned by UN treaty, and a 'Born to Kill' aura that doesn't need writing down. He just looks like trouble.
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Problem is, as long as we keep the guy as... Well, just a guy, I don't know what you could do to him to make him stand out. I actually feel that going with Arnold Schwarzenegger's Commando may have been the mistake, because we have soldiers, then soldiers in masks, then what is ostensibly a Vietnam-era soldier. Again. For some reason, I feel that... That...
...
Let me think out loud here for a second. Imagine a buzz-cut white-hair old man with a giant cigar who goes into battle in a tank top and dog tags and a perpetual scowl. I know the Commando is kind of like that anyway, but the Commando is basically every action hero ever made rolled up into one. He's the likely hero. He's the macho man in an army of macho men. "The old guy" isn't as likely of an action hero for the simple fact that he's old and shouldn't be as fit. But because he's a long-time veteran, because he's so grizzled and exactly BECAUSE he's so unlikely is why he stands out more.
I know everyone hates the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, and for good reason, but I feel casting an elderly Sean Connery as a badass action her, to the point where the bad guy remarks "I hope I age as kindly as you do!" Seems like the only way to make just a normal guy stand out is to break a few tropes. Or...
You know what just occurred to me? You know what would make the Commando stand out? What would make him unique among henchmen? If he weren't a he at all. Just picture a final henchman who's a brawny lady with a big backpack and a chaingun. She wouldn't have to be giant, she wouldn't have to be eccentric. Just having your toughest, most dangerous soldier and heavy weapons specialist be a woman would be distinct enough as it is
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Also Sam, I'd rather we got the PPD armour with arm mounted guns than yet another NPC get it to wave in our faces 
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Lastly, I want to take back quite a few complaints I levelled against Ninja. I complained about the Jonin's AI, but his AI seems to have been fixed when I wasn't looking. He no longer gets stuck cycling darts for no reason and always closes in to melee things with his sword. As well, his poison dart attack no longer puts his weapon way, he just holds it sideways as he fires the crossbow. As well, his Flashbang hide no longer breaks from anything, and instead gives him something like 10 seconds of guaranteed criticals, even if he's dumb enough to use up a large portion of that for Caltrops and Poison Darts
The Genin still tend to hang back and chuck Shuriken, with at least one hanging back at all times. However, they're decent enough with Shuriken alone, and they're so squishy I'm not sure I want them in melee anyway, so I'm not sure I want to really complain about that one.
Suffice it to say that Ninja Masterminds have been improved by a large margin since last time I played them, and I'm happy to have been completely wrong before.
They are, however, still underperforming. The ninja are overall far too squishy still.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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personally, I loved Hinata's stand against Pain|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
One of the primary things I've found is required to enjoying any genre of any field of entertainment is to basically ignore its fan base. Never take fan excesses as an objective measure of quality, and only ever take reviews with a pinch of salt. Ideally, stick to video reviews where available and try to pick out what goes on from the background footage.
There are far too many phenomena where either the fans are idiots who spoil it for you, or otherwise people have developed a fictitious idea of what that is and proceed to hate that straw man, suppressing legitimately good ideas. Or both, as the case may be. Naruto is a good example, especially the earlier series, back when the show had a budget worth a damn and an author not suffering from writer's block. It's just a fun and, yes, badass show. I still love one particular attack from the Shippuuden movie, and hot damn is that cool! |
I just wish that we'd get to see Hinata get her dander up against an enemy that wasn't two leagues above her current status more often.
Thrythlind's Deviant Art Page
"Notice at the end, there: Arcanaville did the math and KICKED IT INTO EXISTENCE." - Ironik on the power of Arcanaville's math
One old idea had for buff ninja survivability was basically to give them phalanx fighting from shield.
This would have been very ironic since it would technically subvert the Law of Ninjutsu Conservation, but hey, it seems cool, right?
But since ninja are melee oriented, that means most of them will be giving eachother max defense buffs for this.
Click here to find all the All Things Art Threads!
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.
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Um... extremely popular? If he did a non S/L damage type I would have nothing to improve upon.|
Originally Posted by SenseiBlur
The only ones that stray and have a different final henchman are necromancy and thugs, and we know how popular the thug brute is.
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Originally Posted by SenseiBlur
I can't see Naruto as any sort of badassery..... sorry. >.>
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Nope, not badass at all. And that's just Naruto vs. Neji in the final part of the Chunin exam. And the only supernatural elements of the scene were Neji's defense, Naruto's initial (completely deflected) attack, and Naruto's decoy. Afterwards, you can see Naruto's fingernails split and bleeding -- he actually dug underneath his crater, it wasn't some fancy earth-style ninjutsu.
...
Also, I've been having multiple Naruto marathons on Hulu, with all of Naruto and Naruto Shippuden available.
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Originally Posted by AzureSkyCiel
Genin defense at level fifty: 6.97% to all positional with no defense debuff resistance.
Jounin defense at level fifty: 13.94% to all positional with no defense debuff resistance. |
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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that IS pretty cool. what about dodge from /SR? but with some ranged def too. Or better yet, hightened senses from /WP as a passive. either of those would improve their defense a lot.
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Originally Posted by AzureSkyCiel
One old idea had for buff ninja survivability was basically to give them phalanx fighting from shield.
This would have been very ironic since it would technically subvert the Law of Ninjutsu Conservation, but hey, it seems cool, right? But since ninja are melee oriented, that means most of them will be giving eachother max defense buffs for this. |
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I don't find that badass at all unfortunately. In fact I find it quite silly. The way I see Naruto is basically Dragonball Z pretending it's a "ninja".|
Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper;3222160
Charge an opponent with your strongest attack, knowing he can defend against, causing an explosion leaving both of you in a crater. Dig from your crater to the ground beneath your opponent (leaving a decoy, of course), and take out your opponent with a surprise attack uppercut from below. Nope, not badass at all. And that's just Naruto vs. Neji in the final part of the Chunin exam. And the only supernatural elements of the scene were Neji's defense, Naruto's initial (completely deflected) attack, and Naruto's decoy. Afterwards, you can see Naruto's fingernails split and bleeding -- he actually [i dug[/i] underneath his crater, it wasn't some fancy earth-style ninjutsu.
... Also, I've been having multiple Naruto marathons on Hulu, with all of Naruto and Naruto Shippuden available. |
What I find badass is Zatoichi (either the old version or the remake, take your pick).
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Not quite... (Warning: long winded and pompous post is long winded and pompous. Also, I do not intend any hostility, disrespect, or to deride Beyeajus' post in anyway)|
Originally Posted by beyeajus
that IS pretty cool. what about dodge from /SR? but with some ranged def too. Or better yet, hightened senses from /WP as a passive. either of those would improve their defense a lot.
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Dodge, Agile, and Lucky are the three SR passives that also boost resistance marginally as HP drops below 60%. However these are not exactly good replacements for the ninjas defenses, though might be note worthy additions, but the problem is, if they replaced what was already there, we'd be in basically the same, single digit positional defense numbers. But on a plus side, they'd have decent defense debuff resistance.
Heightened Senses would, also bring Defense Debuff resistance as well as +perception on their own, but not much else. Between Environmental (typed) defense and Positional defense, it's the one with the highest number that negates the incoming damage. So in the end, either the ninja would give up their positional defenses for something that would put them a little above where they are now, or added, simply give not much visible benefit other than defense debuff resistance.
This is why I suggested Phalanx Fighting from shields. As a passive, they wouldn't need the shield graphic, it would mean the individual ninja would not exactly benefit, but if he has two buddies fighting close with him, he would gain +15% defense to his positional defenses on top of his inherent defenses. So technically, it brings a sense of teamwork to the ninjas and reward their melee heavy styles... It would also, again, ironically subvert the Conversational Law Ninjutsu. (Which states that something's badassery and competence/effectiveness is inversely proportional to it's numbers)
Click here to find all the All Things Art Threads!
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.
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I understand. So PF does seem pretty good for that instead, and the stacking with theother Genin would be nice, like enforcers. It's possible to make a dulled down, not so Brute/Tank/scrapperish, isn't there? Like a mini version?
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Well, modifiers might make the numbers much lower, on a scrapper you only get 2.25% defense bonus to positional defenses with PF, though I know even NPC minions actually have a slightly higher modifier for defense than PC scrapper (weird, I know) and assuming the MM henchmen use minion, lieutenant, and boss modifiers for each tier pet... The numbers shouldn't be unreasonable at the cap. Assuming even tank numbers on a genin plus their inherent defense it would come out to about 21.97% defense, which an SR player like myself (I have 4 characters that use SR) can tell you that's usually about the point where things get a lot less painful|
Originally Posted by beyeajus
I understand. So PF does seem pretty good for that instead, and the stacking with theother Genin would be nice, like enforcers. It's possible to make a dulled down, not so Brute/Tank/scrapperish, isn't there? Like a mini version?
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And part of what would make this different from enforcers is that this would probably still not be slottable into their enhancements, and the range would be much shorter
Click here to find all the All Things Art Threads!
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.
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Personally, I wish they got extra defensive passives as they level up. I experimented with something like this on my Bugs Mastermind and have so far not had anyone complain about (or even mention) them. What I mean to say is, they have their Resistances power, but then they get another Resistances power with their first upgrade and another again with their second. It could work, can't it?
The problem I have with Phalanx Phighting, and which is why I'm suggesting alternatives, is the very concept. Phalanx Phighting works on the principle of a Phalanx, where multiple characters would form a wall of shields and thus stop most incoming damage. How do we explain ninja becoming harder to hit when they huddle together? Wouldn't the law of conservation of ninjitsu work against that? Furthermore, wouldn't a large group of people be easier to hit just by virtue of presenting a larger target area?
And mechanically, a function which requires henchmen to stay together seems like a terrible example of herding cats. Think it's bad trying to keep actual people together? It's practically impossible the way ninja run all over the place. I guess it would work on EBs and up, where the ninja can be forced to surround the enemy and keep in range of each other, but for the most part, they just scatter too much. Half your Genin will, on average, stay behind to throw shuriken. I guess you could make the range really big, but then you're just giving them a flat buff.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Well yes, it does seem a bit odd, but the idea would more stem, conceptually from the idea of the ninja actually working together as a unit. Though I suppose such a thing technically would work better with Merc soldiers.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Personally, I wish they got extra defensive passives as they level up. I experimented with something like this on my Bugs Mastermind and have so far not had anyone complain about (or even mention) them. What I mean to say is, they have their Resistances power, but then they get another Resistances power with their first upgrade and another again with their second. It could work, can't it?
The problem I have with Phalanx Phighting, and which is why I'm suggesting alternatives, is the very concept. Phalanx Phighting works on the principle of a Phalanx, where multiple characters would form a wall of shields and thus stop most incoming damage. How do we explain ninja becoming harder to hit when they huddle together? Wouldn't the law of conservation of ninjitsu work against that? Furthermore, wouldn't a large group of people be easier to hit just by virtue of presenting a larger target area? And mechanically, a function which requires henchmen to stay together seems like a terrible example of herding cats. Think it's bad trying to keep actual people together? It's practically impossible the way ninja run all over the place. I guess it would work on EBs and up, where the ninja can be forced to surround the enemy and keep in range of each other, but for the most part, they just scatter too much. Half your Genin will, on average, stay behind to throw shuriken. I guess you could make the range really big, but then you're just giving them a flat buff. |
And I kept mentioning the Conservation of Ninjutsu law.
but in the end, the Phalanx fighting thing was only one of many suggestions. Yet another was simply to boost Genin and Oni base defenses to that 13.9% (I think that's the amount a scrapper/stalker would get out of SR or nin toggles) and Jounin to 18.5%m but again, its one of many ideas and possibilities.
And ultimately only addresses one of so many problems.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.
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I still don't get why people hate on the League so much...I liked it, personally, and I'm damned critical of movies. |
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Well, neither do the PPD. They start out as beat cops in uniform and move on to SWAT guys in fatigues. Basically, your run-of-the-mill Equaliser and Ghost are... Pretty much a carbon copy of your run of the mill Mercenaries SpecOps, but with a few powers switched around. And in the Talos Mayhem, SWAT and Hard Suits show up in the same spawns. The game already gives us precedent for "stronger = more tech" when it comes to armed forces, at least up to a point. All I'm saying is we can copy what the game has already established.
Problem is, as long as we keep the guy as... Well, just a guy, I don't know what you could do to him to make him stand out. I actually feel that going with Arnold Schwarzenegger's Commando may have been the mistake, because we have soldiers, then soldiers in masks, then what is ostensibly a Vietnam-era soldier. Again. For some reason, I feel that... That... ... Let me think out loud here for a second. Imagine a buzz-cut white-hair old man with a giant cigar who goes into battle in a tank top and dog tags and a perpetual scowl. I know the Commando is kind of like that anyway, but the Commando is basically every action hero ever made rolled up into one. He's the likely hero. He's the macho man in an army of macho men. "The old guy" isn't as likely of an action hero for the simple fact that he's old and shouldn't be as fit. But because he's a long-time veteran, because he's so grizzled and exactly BECAUSE he's so unlikely is why he stands out more. I know everyone hates the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, and for good reason, but I feel casting an elderly Sean Connery as a badass action her, to the point where the bad guy remarks "I hope I age as kindly as you do!" Seems like the only way to make just a normal guy stand out is to break a few tropes. Or... You know what just occurred to me? You know what would make the Commando stand out? What would make him unique among henchmen? If he weren't a he at all. Just picture a final henchman who's a brawny lady with a big backpack and a chaingun. She wouldn't have to be giant, she wouldn't have to be eccentric. Just having your toughest, most dangerous soldier and heavy weapons specialist be a woman would be distinct enough as it is Granted, but the chances of an NPC getting that are far superior to the chances of us getting it, so I try to put in a suggestion for it wherever I can. |
My favourite part was right at the beginning;
Sanderson Reed: "But...he's so far away!"
*Quatermain lowers rifle, grumbles."
Reed: "Yes...Yes I thought so."
*Quatermain pulls out a pair of glasses, puts them on*
Quatermain: "Gods, I hate getting old..."
*Raises rifle, puts a bullet in the running man who was now at the other end of the village*
If they made the Commando...hell, even re-name 'em to Veteran, give him assault and maneuvers or something, and some nasty tricks up his sleeve.
And while the female Commando could also work, I think they'd probably want to finish work on alternate pet sets first
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Well, a female Commando could actually keep precisely the same outfit (obviously aside from the bare chest) and gain similar upgrades. There's pretty much nothing on the Commando that isn't available in the editor anyway. In fact, why don't I put in an example?
...
*edit*
There you go:
The Commando uses player powers exclusively. He has everything from Assault Rifle but Beanbag, Ignite and Sniper Rifle, plus he has Long Range Missile, which my AR/Dev/Munitions Blaster already have. The only thing that would need to be reanimated is the parachuting in animation, and possibly the "catch magazine" and "dig through crate" animations, but BABs has already said that fitting animations between player-available character models is not a big investment.
*edit*
I'd have picked a better top, such as the Yakuza tattoos, but those don't exist for women for some ungodly reason.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Could we rename 'Serum' to 'Grabbing Pills'?|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
If they made the Commando...hell, even re-name 'em to Veteran, give him assault and maneuvers or something, and some nasty tricks up his sleeve. |
Also, I enjoyed LXG. Sure it wasn't the comics, but if you can ignore that it was at least entertaining, and refreshingly low on CGI. That car chase? Model work! Mister Hyde? Costume!
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"Grabbin' puke?!"|
Originally Posted by Zortel
Could we rename 'Serum' to 'Grabbing Pills'?
Also, I enjoyed LXG. Sure it wasn't the comics, but if you can ignore that it was at least entertaining, and refreshingly low on CGI. That car chase? Model work! Mister Hyde? Costume! |
"Grabbin' Heroine- uh, I mean adrenaline." *stk* "Blaogahgthkjshgkghsgkjhshn-" *Thud*
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Have to say, I don't keep up on stuff on the MM front. They're not my AT.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
According to whom? Last official word I heard was that 'It's being worked on, and it's also quite hard to do so it works well, so it may take a while.'
Never that it was impossible. Just enough so that we don't have blue smurf zombies. |
But considering what customization may come down the pipeline, I wouldn't expect to be able to swap one unique pet model for another (like is being discussed)...maybe just color then and add/remove certain accessories...but you'll still have the same base model.
Besides, I like the idea of being able to customize what units. So if I want ranged ninjas, I can pick that from the start...or melee robots...
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That's not the reason it won't be done. |
Originally Posted by SenseiBlur
I
And yes, I realize it's not likely to happen since "Somebody will not like it, therefore it won't be done" but I'm suggesting it nonetheless. |
It won't be done because the devs will never change a power in a power set simply for aesthetic reasons.
They had to change Electric Armor's Conserve Power into Energize because tanks would have been able to double up on it, essentially getting perma Conserve Power (a feat that is currently impossible)
Energy Mastery for brutes and stalkers got Superior Conditioning for the exact same reason.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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Everytime you link to that and I watch it, I hate that attack more and more...|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
It's just a fun and, yes, badass show. I still love one particular attack from the Shippuuden movie, and hot damn is that cool!
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The resenshuriken is suppose to slice up his chakra network every time he uses it, right? It's suppose to be dangerous/life threatening (and I'd presume that shippuuden movie was before the Pain fight so he probably doesn't have sage mode or control of the kyubi so that's not healing him...). Hell, the explosion itself should have ripped his clothes apart (if not the majority of his body).
I like huge OMGWTMFH!1 attacks as much as the next guy but...uhg, I'm just not liking that omni-weapon anymore. Much prefer Asuma's more subtle version of the whole 'cut stuff with wind' skill.
And it definitely sounds like Ninjas are getting gypped on defense.
Aside from the hand signs, it's not much like ninja as we define them...more like super-martial arts spec ops, and I get the feeling that the author plays a lot of pun games to get different meanings out of ninja
if we were talking about a normal fantasy setting, they'd be getting called warriors, sorcerers and the only ninja would be the Anbu
in fact...Naruto has more in common with Chinese Wu Xia knight errants
more Three Kingdoms, Outlaws of the Marsh or Journey to the West than Hattori Hanzo and the like.
Thrythlind's Deviant Art Page
"Notice at the end, there: Arcanaville did the math and KICKED IT INTO EXISTENCE." - Ironik on the power of Arcanaville's math