Emperor Cole at the end of the Power Loyalist Arc...
By
AnElfCalledMack,
Posted on: 2010-09-20 14:19 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Read the rest of the post. Or at least respond to the whole thing.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Yes, it is - there's a reason for the old hobo to be found in the underground
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Praetoria is a new nation. It isn't a Republic, as America was in the Praetorian World. America is no more. there is an Emperor and Dictator in charge. he and his people built the city. The Resistance has no right to take it. If they want a City they should go out and build it for themselves, rather than getting a bunch of people killed so they can take away what Praetoria has built.
If Praetoria was America we wouldn't be having this discussion, at all.
-Rachel-
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Committing suicide by jumping into a zoo exhibit full of bears that haven't been fed yet and swatting them with a stick is not heroic.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Home is where the heart is - and normal people will always fight for thier home and their freedom, even if the odds are against them - it's the heroic thing to do
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-Rachel-
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Even the most crushingly dumb loyalist stromtrooper will realize after 10 seconds of talking to Mother Mayhem that there's something very, very wrong with her |
Originally Posted by CapnGeist
the only evidence that Mother is really the monster she's said to be is... What people say.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
You know, I just thought of some weird speculation for down the road (lol, status quo is god though.)
A large chunk of the Wardens leave Praetoria and are chased by Cole's people into the far north. there, along the coastline they establish a new city that would be the pinnacle of their ideals of freedom, happiness for the people. It would be a Paradise peerless that even Praetoria would be but a dim glimmer against.
It would be... Paragon.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.
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And how many people talk DIRECTLY to a Board of Directors and CEO of a company?
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See... At that point? I'd totally side with the Resistance if the Praetorians tried to invade. There literally wouldn't be a leg for the Loyalists to stand on, at that point.|
Originally Posted by AzureSkyCiel
You know, I just thought of some weird speculation for down the road (lol, status quo is god though.)
A large chunk of the Wardens leave Praetoria and are chased by Cole's people into the far north. there, along the coastline they establish a new city that would be the pinnacle of their ideals of freedom, happiness for the people. It would be a Paradise peerless that even Praetoria would be but a dim glimmer against. It would be... Paragon. |
But somehow i doubt the Devs would write the Praetorians as invading the Resistance held city of Paragon without a reason (to uphold the Shades of Gray idea). So they'd probably have the Crusaders still attacking Praetoria using Paragon as a staging ground.
-Rachel-
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We've also noticed that there's something very wrong with you, dear, but if Rachel tells me that you're a puppy-kicking arsonist who spends her afternoons cutting limbs off squirrels I'm still going to need some proof before believing that it's true.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Even the most crushingly dumb loyalist stromtrooper will realize after 10 seconds of talking to Mother Mayhem that there's something very, very wrong with her
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Also, you never answered my questions.
-Is it evil to inhibit my freedom to hit someone in the face with a shovel?
-What ethical system allows the nuking of Nova Praetoria to count as a non-evil act?
-Assuming the Resistance's plans all work, what can the Resistance do to make life better than Praetoria and not get everyone eaten by Hamidon?
NPCs: A Single Method to Greatly Expand Bases
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Just because Tyrant and his goose-stepping stormtropopers have declared a New Order, that doesn't mean the people have to accept it - apart from the ones Tyrant is drugging to be docile, of course - they'll accpet anything he says |
Originally Posted by Steampunkette
Praetoria is a new nation. It isn't a Republic, as America was in the Praetorian World. America is no more.
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| there is an Emperor and Dictator in charge. he and his people built the city. The Resistance has no right to take it. |
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| If Praetoria was America we wouldn't be having this discussion, at all. |
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Why not? They've already done it with Tyrant's plans to invade and enslave Primal Erath |
Originally Posted by Steampunkette
But somehow i doubt the Devs would write the Praetorians as invading the Resistance held city of Paragon without a reason
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
F5......f5.....f5
America fell, collapsed under the Hamidon attack. Praetoria rose from the ashes, it's not America anymore, it's not a Republic. It's a new country.
There's nothing stopping the Resistance from leaving... except the Devouring Earth Horde that's trying to kill everybody.
Oh, and, PS.
EXPLAAAAIN!
So... If someone comes up and declares a location "Theirs" even though my family had lived there for generations on end, I'd have every right to walk up to them and tell them to get off my property, then take their homes and businesses as my own?
I've got Creek Indian blood... Does that mean all the land that the Colonists took from my ancestors belongs to me? That I can take their houses for myself? Houses they built long after my ancestors left the land?
What would your "Statute of Limitations" be on that situation? 'Cause Praetoria's been there for 25 years, more or less. That's a full "Generation" more or less.
Praetoria is Praetoria. It's a dictatorship controlled by Cole. America is gone, and the land, there, ceded to Cole and his people.
Want me to put it into Real Estate law, for you? Involuntary Alienation.
So long as the new people take the land, live on it openly, do so in a fashion which is adverse to your title, and Notorious (I.E. known to everyone) for anywhere from 5-30 years possession of the property (title and all) transfers to them. And in the situation you've got no legal recourse to do anything about it.
So yeah. It's Praetoria. Pack up and Get out if you don't like it. But bombing hospitals or nuking cities to get your way just isn't the right way to go about it.
-Rachel-
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Well of course there'd be good reason for Praetoria to invade a new Resistance founded city! They can't turn their back on their old Resistance comrades after having been through so much, so the Crusaders would end up there, and the Syndicate would "offer help" of getting supplies to help Paragon set up, supplies likely stolen from Praetoria, and if they're using the remains of the old city, just imagine Calvin Scott taking advantage of the kindness of his more idealistic Resistance recruits and developing HIS OWN FULL SCALE INVASION ARMY in Paragon behind the government's back.|
Originally Posted by Steampunkette
But somehow i doubt the Devs would write the Praetorians as invading the Resistance held city of Paragon without a reason (to uphold the Shades of Gray idea). So they'd probably have the Crusaders still attacking Praetoria using Paragon as a staging ground. -Rachel- |
Then there's the fact that Cole was granted his status as Emperor of MANKIND and thus the Earth by the people. So an act of secession like this could easily be written off as treason on it's own, by attempting to form an independent nation, it would be an act of war.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
The hobo is there for a reason
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The LAND is indeed America, sure. But the country is Praetoria.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.
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No it isn't - it's still America - the people are still Americans, with the same basic American values of freedom - that's why there's such a big Resistance movement.|
Originally Posted by BenRGamer
America fell, collapsed under the Hamidon attack. Praetoria rose from the ashes, it's not America anymore, it's not a Republic. It's a new country.
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Tyrant can call it Praetoria, Disneyland, the Fourth Reich - whatever he likes - it's still America, and he's crushing the American people under his fascist dictatorship.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
No it isn't - it's still America - the people are still Americans, with the same basic American values of freedom - that's why there's such a big Resistance movement.
Tyrant can call it Praetoria, Disneyland, the Fourth Reich - whatever he likes - it's still America, and he's crushing the American people under his fascist dictatorship.
This does not constitute an argument.
-Rachel-
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No - American's shouldn't have to leave their own country just because an insane god-emperor is crushing them under his dictatorship - they should do exactly what they're doing - take up arms and fight to win back their liberty and depose the monster and his jackbooted thugs.
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Originally Posted by Steampunkette
So yeah. It's Praetoria. Pack up and Get out if you don't like it.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Maybe not to a stormtrooper, no |
Originally Posted by Steampunkette
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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It was an insane god Emperor that the PEOPLE did vote in. Though whether this really is the case or not is another matter. Sure it could be a lie, but this is Shades of Grey. Sometimes when people are alone in the dark, they don't make the right choices because they think it is the right choice.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
No - American's shouldn't have to leave their own country just because an insane god-emperor is crushing them under his dictatorship - they should do exactly what they're doing - take up arms and fight to win back their liberty and depose the monster and his jackbooted thugs.
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Click here to find all the All Things Art Threads!
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.
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Bwah...? Did you even check out the link to the page where it explained how, to anyone with a basic understanding of how arguments work, your "argument" was invalid as a logical fallacy?|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Maybe not to a stormtrooper, no
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You did not state facts or even give an opinion. You basically shouted "Amurrica!" and trundled off with your usual epileptic smileyface.
-Rachel-
So... anyway though, who thinks the idea of the Wardens breaking off to form Paragon making things come full circle would be kickass?
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.
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**Ahem**
RESISTANCE IS EVIL! COLE IS GOOD! ;-)
Resistance is evil because bombing hospitals and eating babies is evil, and Cole is good cause he saved the world, and if you don't agree, it means you're a terrorist!
NPCs: A Single Method to Greatly Expand Bases
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Some countries in real life have voted for insane dictators in the past |
Originally Posted by AzureSkyCiel
It was an insane god Emperor that the PEOPLE did vote in. Though whether this really is the case or not is another matter. Sure it could be a lie, but this is Shades of Grey. Sometimes when people are alone in the dark, they don't make the right choices because they think it is the right choice.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Oh, Definitely! I'd love that!|
Originally Posted by AzureSkyCiel
So... anyway though, who thinks the idea of the Wardens breaking off to form Paragon making things come full circle would be kickass?
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I'd especially love it if, with the removal of the Resistance, most of the evil stuff going on in Praetoria just -stopped- dead in it's tracks. Except the fighting/arrest/murder of the Syndicate criminals, of course.
No more Seers, no more Mother Mayhem, no more invasion of Primal Earth. All the evil just -stopped-.
Why? because the main and driving force of the oppressive attacks was removed when the Resistance went off to found their own nation in a different part of what was once "Amurrica!"
-Rachel-
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The Wardens are Americans too - they have no reason to leave America - they'll stay and fight the fascists until they get their liberty back.
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Originally Posted by AzureSkyCiel
So... anyway though, who thinks the idea of the Wardens breaking off to form Paragon making things come full circle would be kickass?
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork