I have level locked at 25, 30, and 35 for the 5 rolls with a-merits so here is what I do:
General rules for no history are as follows if I don't want it:
No one or only one bidding: email to an alt I don't play to list for a few inf over vendor price plus 10% fee. So for example a level 30 rare would vend for 6k, I would list for 7k.
Many bidding: list for vendor times 50. Leave up for at least a week or through 2 full weekends before giving up and dropping to vendor price times 10.
If I do want it then I gauge what I would be willing to pay for it and if I am not going to keep it:
No one or only one bidding: email to an alt I don't play to list for what I would pay plus 15%.
Many bidding: list for 3 times what I am willing to pay.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
Swell guy, is that crafted?
Also, I get 30 and 35 as lockable but 25 is different. I had a 22 that I unlocked and he is nearly 25. What is the benefit? Is there demand for lvl 25 recipes?
I ask because i completed a very good level 20 build in about 2 days with a little patiant bidding. My level 30 build still isn't completed and I don't expect to be for another week or so. True the level 30 build is an exemp build for my main filled with pricey and rare stuff but still..
I never craft if there is no history to support my cost to craft unless I am otherwise willing to keep the crafted item for myself. My version of marketing is very cowardly.
The main reason I am rolling at 25 is I am willing to slot at that level and my cowardly marketing shows things at levels on the 5s (25, 30, 35, etc) sell faster than the off level ones. While I personally like 32 because I can run my 25-29 Ouroboros' things and get the benefits I don't find it significantly outweighs just getting them at 30.
The only reason I don't lock at 20, and I have been tempted, is I also like to slot up my level 20 power at 21 and so on. At 25 I have my level 24 power and more slots making it easier for me to play.
I do tend to use my reward merits accumulated to roll when my characters hit 15 and 20 but I never leave them there for that. I do leave some at 10, 15 and 20 for a while if I am using AE for tickets.
But most of my nonsense is to be able to quickly buy and sell and I find the on the 5s support that best. For max profit you would definitely want to hit level 32 stuff because people who want it will pay for it. You just have to wait for those enlightened buyers.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
Quote:
Classic game theory thing. You've got two people guessing what the other one is going to do with the goal of meeting up. Suppliers want to roll at the levels people will bid at, and customer want to bid the levels people will roll on. The "most obvious" places are on the 5's, with a special gold star for level 30. | levels on the 5s (25, 30, 35, etc) sell faster than the off level ones. |
Why level 30? Because that's what rikti invaders drop. (1 in 2000 per boss of a pool C. )
There's also a slight historical bias, although it may have gone away, in favor of level 33 because that used to be what you got when you outleveled Katie, and there may be a level 41 bias due to Eden- if there ever was one, it was pretty small.
Level 31, 34 and 36 are pretty well unloved in my experience.
As far as pricing? For a few weeks you could be INCREDIBLY aggressive with valued uniques, and in some cases you still can be.
I am trying to reverse-engineer what I go through to price stuff. I don't have actual rules, see. I divide stuff into roughly four categories: Extrashiny (MORE valuable at level 30-35, like LoTGs or Stealths, and worth 50+ million), Very Shiny (low supply, sells well at max level, worth maybe 30 million), Good (maybe 10 million crafted), and Bleh (priced at Take my IO Please levels- less than cost of salvage for crafted, like that.)
Bleh at max level is going to be bleh at any level.
Good at max level depends on how it sold (if any data exists) for levels around mine. Probably try for a little over half the price- 5.5 million if the level 50 sells for 10 million, like that. If there's unsold inventory I'd cut it below half if I needed the slot.
Very shiny I'd sell at roughly the same level as the max level item. Someone will buy it. I know, all the last 5 prices are at 3-10 million and I'm telling you to list for 30 (or 26.1m, if you list like me). It'll sell. Where else are they going to get it? It's VERY SHINY.
Extrashiny is where my greed and my fear go to war. I've gotten 200M for LoTGs in the low 30's (yesterday) even in "this market", it just takes a tiny bit longer. I got 120M for a Stealth when "market price" was around 50-80.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
I have a toon stopped at 35. I also dont try to corner the market and look for niches and all that. I dont enjoy it at all. However, i do like to sell. lol. It all depends on what the recipe is in your case.
The good stuff sells just as high on the lower levels as it does on the higher levels, and often more. Example from tuesday.
I rolled a level 23 Kin/Com Dam/End on a toon im pl'ing. There was 1 sold in the history. It sold for 50mil crafted, 30 uncrafted. I listed it for 50,000,001. It sold for 75mil.
So, if it were me, id just look at the other levels and post it for something in the general ballpark. Lower doesnt always equal less.
Interesting question.
As Fulmens alluded to, some levels are better than others, and I'd look those
over before jumping into a crafting niche.
Secondly, like SwellGuy, I'm reluctant to leap into a niche with zero history.
You assume all the risk up front without any guage for reward... Iffy biz.
That said, there's clearly a crafting truism you can work with:
You can't make money crafting unless you can sell above your costs.
Obvious, I know, but true.
So, before starting up a crafting assembly line, I'd start with just a couple shinies
in the prospective niche. I'd list them for 50% over my crafting cost
(assuming averages for salvage).
Basically it's worth a couple transaction slots to see if your price is met,
and get a sense of turnaround timeframe. I'd probably do that a few
times. In that way, you're minimising risk, establishing a history, and
gauging demand.
If those results were favorable, you've got yourself a new niche - if not,
you didn't cost yourself too much to determine it isn't viable.
Regards,
4
PS> I'd do it that way at any level, not just 30 or lower,
but that's how I roll... 
I've been rich, and I've been poor. Rich is definitely better.
Light is faster than sound - that's why some people look smart until they speak.
For every seller who leaves the market dirty stinkin' rich,
there's a buyer who leaves the market dirty stinkin' IOed. - Obitus.
Definitely some food for thought here.
I am not actually crafting for a niche, more like just trying to maximze what I get from A-Merits.
I figure that once I get three level locked toons and 1 50 doing the tip missions, I should at least get 1 random roll 3 days out of 4 and 1 chosen recipe by the the fourth day. I can run 10 tips a day total, not always on the same toon so that they will cycle.
Except for the 50 cuz his takes the least amount of time to run. He can do 5 a day, so he gets a pick every other day
If I can get a pricing strategy to work then I will only have to invest an hour so per day and should have all kinds of things my alts need.
Are those rolls any different than AE rolls? If not, then just get tickets and roll. Same theory, lock a toon at that level. I run 2 accounts (was 3). I can cap 1500 tix per run x2-3 toons. 1 run = 15 min. That's 4500 tickets every 15min. 1 rolled bronze, 1 silver, 1 gold. No waiting days for rolls. Assuming youre running more than one account.
Quote:
I'm planning on rolling a bunch at 32 then again at 37, just to get a few more recipes out there. It's probably not optimal, but I'm not sure I really care at this point (if I was going for max profit, I'd just be playing my 50s).
|
Originally Posted by SwellGuy
While I personally like 32 because I can run my 25-29 Ouroboros' things and get the benefits I don't find it significantly outweighs just getting them at 30.
|
Suggestions:
Super Packs Done Right
Influence Sink: IO Level Mod/Recrafting
Random Merit Rolls: Scale cost by Toon Level
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by eryq2
Are those rolls any different than AE rolls? If not, then just get tickets and roll. Same theory, lock a toon at that level. I run 2 accounts (was 3). I can cap 1500 tix per run x2-3 toons. 1 run = 15 min. That's 4500 tickets every 15min. 1 rolled bronze, 1 silver, 1 gold. No waiting days for rolls. Assuming youre running more than one account.
|
Yeah, they are pool C rares as opposed to AE uncommons with a chance for a rare on. (I do have two accounts but the performance hit made things unpleasant to play.)
Plus you get 5 rolls per A-merit and can convert 50 reward merits + 20 million for another A-merit.
But besides that I have never really taken to AE. I have tried it many times and I like regular content better. I like running around in the world. I tried Fulmen's Bronze roll selection and while it was ok, there was so much crap to wade through and since I don't always know what's good I had to look everything up on the market. That took me a lot longer than running tips. But whatever works!
The 30 range IOs really don't command enough of a price premium to make generating them worthwhile. The people who understand their value are usually the people that will bid creep and generally drive as hard a bargain as they can from their end of things. They also know that in most cases there is a much smaller market for anything that isn't max level or min level so they can pretty much wait you out.
That said you have to consider this just how long does it take you to get your rolls. How much do you earn/time playing your fifties how much are the level 50 versions of the IOs going for. Now in order to actually make a profit you need to sell your IOs for more than what the level 50 versions are going for + your lost influence from playing below 50 to generate them.
Quote:
I'm not really trying to find a nice or craft in a niche more just trying to get the most out of my A-Merit rolls. Here's how I have been figuring cost:|
Originally Posted by FourSpeed
Interesting question.
As Fulmens alluded to, some levels are better than others, and I'd look those over before jumping into a crafting niche. That said, there's clearly a crafting truism you can work with: You can't make money crafting unless you can sell above your costs. |
2 million per piece of rare salvage
50000 per piece of non rare salvage
500000 to craft the recipe
500000 to list the shiny.
So that's 3,150,000 per recipe.
So if I can sell it for at least 5 million I can make a little profit.
Of course this is an average some things sell for much more and have higher listing costs and salvage costs. But anything that doesn't make that much doesn't get crafted. So that everything that does get crafted makes a profit at least.
I don't have any numbers to prove it, but I suspect over time that the average profit per shiny sold is much higher than 1.75 million just because of off things like someone paying 250 million for BotZ -knockback last week and salvage
So I think I am coming out ahead but I spend it on toons pretty quickly. I am helping my sister I/O out her toons as well as my own (to be fair, she pretty much hands her finds over to me to deal with)
Definitely going to work up a pricing strategy and if you like let you know how it works.
Informative as always guys (and ladies if any be present).
Quote:
That's true, if the only goal is to make the most profit then you are correct. My goal is to supply a sgement of the market that is hard to service. I need recipes at that level and I suspect others do as well. When I can get a level 30 oblit quad that I don't have to pay 40 million for then the smaller profit that I make on the other items should help.|
Originally Posted by Another_Fan
The 30 range IOs really don't command enough of a price premium to make generating them worthwhile. The people who understand their value are usually the people that will bid creep and generally drive as hard a bargain as they can from their end of things. They also know that in most cases there is a much smaller market for anything that isn't max level or min level so they can pretty much wait you out.
That said you have to consider this just how long does it take you to get your rolls. How much do you earn/time playing your fifties how much are the level 50 versions of the IOs going for. Now in order to actually make a profit you need to sell your IOs for more than what the level 50 versions are going for + your lost influence from playing below 50 to generate them. |
Again, I don't need billions and billions. I need enough to fund my alts and to pay for the fun I have crafting and trying different sets.
Could I make more profit? Probably. I don't need it all, just enough.
Quote:
This is the right attitude. If there isn't an existing market history, you've got to make your own market. As a basic rule, what's popular at 50 is usually popular at 30-35, so use the level 50 prices to inform your selection of a niche.|
Originally Posted by DevilYouKnow
Again, I don't need billions and billions. I need enough to fund my alts and to pay for the fun I have crafting and trying different sets.
|
You should post at prices that are high enough to recoup your expenses and provide enough funds to do what you want. If you've picked an item that's in demand (which ones should be obvious from what's popular at 50, usually ones that provide desirable bonuses -- defense and recharge bonuses on attacks are usually good bets), you'll sell it soon enough.
Once the ice is broken others will start posting items they're holding in reserve. Then the market will start normalizing again.
Someone's got to go first. If you get the price you want, don't worry about the woulda-coulda-shoulda.
Quote:
Ah, thats why i use 2 pc's. lol. I wouldnt dare try it on one. Or at least my one. |
Originally Posted by DevilYouKnow
Yeah, they are pool C rares as opposed to AE uncommons with a chance for a rare on. (I do have two accounts but the performance hit made things unpleasant to play.)
Plus you get 5 rolls per A-merit and can convert 50 reward merits + 20 million for another A-merit. But besides that I have never really taken to AE. I have tried it many times and I like regular content better. I like running around in the world. I tried Fulmen's Bronze roll selection and while it was ok, there was so much crap to wade through and since I don't always know what's good I had to look everything up on the market. That took me a lot longer than running tips. But whatever works! |
As far as AE, i run a BM replica of the PI farm. If you dont like the bronze ones, try level 25-29 silver. I get a ton, i mean ton, of Kinetic Combats, Numinas, Touch of Deaths. At 35-39 silver, i get alot of Posis, Miracles, Oblits.
If i do the bronze, i do 10-14. There, i get a good bit of Steadfast uniques. I have about 5 or 6 crafted in a bin and sold 4 since monday. I also recieve the Regeneration proc in that same level.
But as you know, a roll is all in the luck of the draw. Ive just found that i can make more doing that than the occasional purple drop. Mainly due to the Kin Coms and uniques from the rolls.
I look at the entire range of the IO, how they are selling at the top of the range, how many are for sale across the level range, how many are for sale at the level I want to sell at.
If there aren't very many for sale at all at any level, then you can probably charge close to the usual price of the top level.
I also take crafting into consideration. If it's a yellow/uncommon recipe that was easily crafted, and not something obviously in high demand, I'll list it for as low as I'm comfortable with. I craft a lot of not-obviously-popular recipes and offer them up for sale from 600,000 to 1.6 million, depending. These kind of things don't move quickly but they usually sell in the end.
For rare recipes you have to take crafting costs into consideration, since rare salvage is usually in the 2 million range and you need to be able to sell for more than that, of course.
Also: I buy level 30 recipes, so keep creating them. ^_^
my lil RWZ Challenge vid
Quote:
Not at all. To make a profit you have to sell for more than your costs. It is only "to make the largest profit possible" that you have to sell above the 50 rate.|
Originally Posted by Another_Fan
That said you have to consider this just how long does it take you to get your rolls. How much do you earn/time playing your fifties how much are the level 50 versions of the IOs going for. Now in order to actually make a profit you need to sell your IOs for more than what the level 50 versions are going for + your lost influence from playing below 50 to generate them.
|
Only a few global IOs sell more below 50 than at 50, therefore by your theory no one shoudl ever sell anything other than a level 50.
"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.
For procs and such, I charge a lot more that lvl 50s. A lot more. They don't move often but they always sell.
Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a *real* useful invention. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolog...t-sarcasm.html
Quote:
Profit from above is 1.85 mil. However, Triage 30 or Karma 30 can cost as little as 100k to craft. Sold for 2 mil, that's 1.9 mil profit. Sold for 3 mil, that's 2.9 mil profit. Sometimes, can sell for 4 mil, which is 3.9 mil profit. Basically, some recipes don't need rare salvage (65% of crafting cost) and are just as profitable. Triage and Karma are from bronze 10-30 rolls. Also note that price of rare salvage is rising, up to 4 mil for some. In that case, selling for 5 mill is basically just giving it away.
|
Originally Posted by DevilYouKnow
Here's how I have been figuring cost:
2 million per piece of rare salvage 50000 per piece of non rare salvage 500000 to craft the recipe 500000 to list the shiny. So that's 3,150,000 per recipe. So if I can sell it for at least 5 million I can make a little profit. |
Quote:
From what i've seen rares are still down from pre-i18. Pangaean soil used to be reliably 3.2 to 5 million, and I can still buy them for 1 and change after a day or two. They are spiking up, but not staying there.
|
Originally Posted by crayhal
Also note that price of rare salvage is rising, up to 4 mil for some. In that case, selling for 5 mill is basically just giving it away.
|
"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.
Currently I haven't paid more than 3 million for a single piece and even at NAO prices I usually pay only 2 million.
Also, I realize that the formula I described overestimates actual cost in many cases, but that allows for a bigger margin of error when slavage spikes or the listing fee is higher.
I don't remember prices being that high before I18, but that's not a reliable memory...
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by GavinRuneblade
Not at all. To make a profit you have to sell for more than your costs. It is only "to make the largest profit possible" that you have to sell above the 50 rate.
Only a few global IOs sell more below 50 than at 50, therefore by your theory no one shoudl ever sell anything other than a level 50. |
That's not a theory, its called cost accounting and making a profit. Lets for the sake of argument say an automobile cost $5000 in materials another $3000 in direct labor costs, the way its being presented here the care shouldn't be sold for more than $16000. This is ignoring the fact that the factory and tooling for the automobile cost billions that had to be borrowed from lenders or raised from investors, both of whom actually want and expect a return on their money. If the sale of the automobile can't generate a competitive return to the people it either doesn't get made, or the makers find some way to involuntarily have money coerced out of peoples pockets.
And yes If you actually want to make inf which is implied in the original post, you shouldn't be working the sub 50 market. The constant calls for people being forced to get off level IOs as a reward are little more than calls for them to get screwed because the poster wants what they want at a bargain price.
Now if someone wants to do something as a community service that throws the pricing question out the window. The question then becomes what is the price that is needed to keep doing it, and that is the cost to manufacture the IO. If the OP has inf needs that he wants to satisfy by doing this the answer becomes his (inf requirements/time)/(# saleable IOs)= Net profit/IO.
Now I say this all the time but it goes like water off a duck, If you really want low to mid level IOs start paying more for them or get real patient and do what I do, and just leave lowball bids up on alts forever. If the farmers and regular players felt that it was actually worth their while to generate these things there would be a flood of them that would astonish Noah.
I generally don't bother with lower level stuff except in cases where it brings a premium, usually due to lots of people wanting them to slot for their lowbie alts (Karma -KBs, Steadfast +def, assorted procs, LotG +recharges, Numinas, Miracle, etc etc).
Stuff like that is pretty easy to price because there are usually 0 for sale.
My Rule of Zero says anything with 0 for sale is underpriced, so just list higher than the highest price in the 'last 5'. If you're in a hurry, list for a few million more. If you don't mind waiting for a bigger profit, double or triple the highest price. Buyer impatience has trumped my ridiculous markup in every instance so far.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
Let me start by saying I don't consider my self a Marketeer. There is way too much I don't know. I don't look for niches to exploit, I don't flip salvage, I don't try and corner supply, etc. I don't have a problem with it just not terribly interested in doing so,
But I do enjoy crafting. I have many alts, I craft for my friends, etc. It bothers me whenever I have to vendor a recipe I can craft just because I know I would lose money on it.
With the arrival of A-Merits, I have been level locking a toon at 30 and hope to get a second one to 32 to create recipes in what is a higly desirable range,
Here's the problem: Pricing. There isn't history for a lot of items and I know that there is demand, just no supply but that also means that I have no clue how to price many items that my random rolls are generating.
So what I am looking for is a pricing strategy based on a level where there is demand and history. Basically, at what ever level the set I/O tops out.
Any ideas?