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Dark/sonic will be very control heavy to where you could skip on some of it. Since Rad has RI, I pause at the whole being mezzed issue. One plus about Traps is that you get extra pets and those can distract others from attacking you. I know the traps themselves have little saved my MM from aggro and thus death more than once. Another note about Traps is adding /dark would give you T.T. and force targets to stay near your traps. For my own personal playstyle, I would rank them Dark, Rad and Traps, but then I have a level 50 Rad/sonic and not even a level 1 Dark/sonic. I deleted my Dark/sonic during one of my numerous alt purges. I would probably go Sonic/dark blue side corr these days.
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Originally Posted by CB_GB
Any thoughts on how Dark/Sonic, Traps/Sonic, and Rad/Sonic would play differently?
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All three combos would be very strong.|
Originally Posted by CB_GB
Any thoughts on how Dark/Sonic, Traps/Sonic, and Rad/Sonic would play differently?
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Like Amy said, Dark/Sonic would be control-heavy to the point where you could skip some of it, and it'd probably also be the slowest soloer of the three, but also the safest for most of the game. All three of these combos can be pretty safe, but it's hard to top flooring every enemy's ToHit while fearing them.
Traps/Sonic is a pretty good jack-of-all-trades. You make up for the relatively poor solo AoE damage of Sonic Blast by being able to put spawns to sleep and then plant bombs on top of them. As an added bonus, you walk around with your own mezz protection, pack superb -regen, and have a pet that can let you take alphas of x8 anything.
Rad/Sonic is pretty similar to Traps/Sonic in a lot of ways. You don't get explicit mezz protection (instead relying on -ToHit, sleep, and soft controls to just keep the mezzes from landing,) but get more reliable debuffs, Accelerate Metabolism, and a heal in exchange, as well as one of the best AoE control powers in the game.
Having Vengeance and Fallout slotted for recharge means never having to say you're sorry.
I will put my vote in for Dark/Dark because as others have mentioned if blooms fast (Both primary and secondary) and can go on to becoming very powerful - for a minimal cost as well.
I also think Dark/Dark is better than Dark/Sonic because with the cone fear of Fearsome Stare you don't really need the sleep as has been suggested above, and Tenebrous Tentacles + Nightfall line up perfectly so keep everything packed onto your Tar Patch and dying very fast.
I really don't get the comments about it being a slow killer, unless people are talking about single target damage. But with Dark/ being able to lockdown whole groups very easily who fights small mobs?
Another synergy comes with Dark Pit (From /Dark) and Howling Twilight (From Dark/), both are AoE stun powers that stack nicely for bosses.
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Originally Posted by Aggelakis
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I would advise just go dark/dark as your first fender.... its a power choice that's just as good at 6th level as its at 50th. In the upper 30s, its not uncommon for a D3 to take over the tanking for a team. Shadow Fall + Super Speed, you got a cheap invisibility. Fearsome Stare, tar patch, tenebrous tentacles... all great powers for whatever task force, mission, you need to do. Dark Servant (fuffy), beloved by all for its holds, heals, and debuffs. Howling Twilight, the only mass res in the game.
As for Trap, I do have one... but solo-ing does require some set-up unlike playing a Dark. My Dark can just jump in a room, and start having fun. My trap, needs to lay down his toys before agg-ing the mob.
I enjoy both, but a D3 is easier to play.
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Actually just for fun I started a dark/dark last night. I got it up to lev 8 today in a couple of hours in Praetoria. I was shocked at how easy it was to do missions that seemed harder on my kin/sd scrapper. 
Sitting in a group of six ghouls in the middle of a tar patch and barely getting scratched was amazing. Then after hover at lev 6, it's almost too easy. I haven't played a defender since around I6. This is a very different archetype these days. Very solo friendly.
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I have noticed also a lot of defender/controller 'traditional' powersets shining in Praetoria. I made a Bots/FF because I wanted a support toon with a little more damage than the traditional defender. The bubbling seemed very successful.
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Originally Posted by Scooby_Dont
Actually just for fun I started a dark/dark last night. I got it up to lev 8 today in a couple of hours in Praetoria. I was shocked at how easy it was to do missions that seemed harder on my kin/sd scrapper.
Sitting in a group of six ghouls in the middle of a tar patch and barely getting scratched was amazing. Then after hover at lev 6, it's almost too easy. I haven't played a defender since around I6. This is a very different archetype these days. Very solo friendly. |
Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.
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That's because Praetoria enemies aren't like Paragon enemies. Every early group in Paragon has either guns, knives, or axes, and all of those weapons debuff defense. There are no knives or axes in Praetoria, and very few bullets. Most enemies (Resistance and Police) use energy blasts. Not until you start to see the Syndicate will you see any defense debuffing.|
Originally Posted by Psylenz
I have noticed also a lot of defender/controller 'traditional' powersets shining in Praetoria. I made a Bots/FF because I wanted a support toon with a little more damage than the traditional defender. The bubbling seemed very successful.
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My most versatile defender is a Sonic/Archery with the medicine pool and the Psionic APP. He can buff a team, debuff the enemies and pincushion them with arrows, be a gutter healer or controller or a temporary tank. But that's a build for advanced players, I would think. Dark/Dark, as people have suggested, is a very versatile powerset that new players can easily get into.
...
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Because DN out of the box is better than anything shield has at that point. Add in a good heal and Dark is out of the box awesome.|
Originally Posted by Scooby_Dont
Actually just for fun I started a dark/dark last night. I got it up to lev 8 today in a couple of hours in Praetoria. I was shocked at how easy it was to do missions that seemed harder on my kin/sd scrapper.
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Originally Posted by RemusShepherd
That's because Praetoria enemies aren't like Paragon enemies.
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I'm going to have to go with Traps and TA.
For someone newish to def's or rekindling a long lost love affair with them, I'd go along with Dark/Dark. It was my first def and I got him to 50 pretty easily.
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I don't know why no one has said Rad/Psi yet, very good solo defender, very well rounded. All that is needed is RA,RI,AM, EF,LR, Mental Blast, TK blast, Subdue, Will Dom and Scramble Thoughts. With fitness going inherent in I19 then you can add other powers but really wouldn't need them. You can floor a targets defense, resistance, to-hit, and regen rate and improve your spd, recharge and damage all by level 12.
I would definately recommend a Rad/(x) defender.
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I love my Rad/Rad (currently at 37), but soloing has been a bit of a chore lately. The toggles send mobs running in every direction, so it's tough to keep them in the debuff radius. The more that get outside the debuff radius, the uglier the fight gets. It's amazing vs. small groups and Boss/EB/AV types, but a big pack of minions can be trouble.|
Originally Posted by Psyrene
I don't know why no one has said Rad/Psi yet, very good solo defender, very well rounded. All that is needed is RA,RI,AM, EF,LR, Mental Blast, TK blast, Subdue, Will Dom and Scramble Thoughts. With fitness going inherent in I19 then you can add other powers but really wouldn't need them. You can floor a targets defense, resistance, to-hit, and regen rate and improve your spd, recharge and damage all by level 12.
I would definately recommend a Rad/(x) defender. |
I almost exclusively team with the character now because of the scatter.
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What's this I hear about a long-lost love affair?|
Originally Posted by Sionwyn
For someone newish to def's or rekindling a long lost love affair with them, I'd go along with Dark/Dark. It was my first def and I got him to 50 pretty easily.
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Hello, darlings. Did you miss me? =D
Quite honestly, I don't get where all this "Dark is weak" comes from. Between Tar Patch getting a boost from Darkest Night, and a snipe that is usable while in-combat for heavy single-target damage, there's no reason why you can't take a D3 and go to town.
Yes, Dark is most certainly built to abuse large groups of enemies at once. But that doesn't mean you one, can't dish out single-target damage, or two, adjust to accommodate your weaknesses. A Ghost Slaying Axe, whether veteran power or temp, will help deal with enemies that heavily resist Dark damage. And besides, Tenebrous Tentacles is largely smashing damage anyhow.
One of the criticisms that I have regarding Dark Miasma/Radiation Emission comparisons is that while everyone recognizes the shared levels of -ToHit, -Resist, -Damage, and -Regen within Twilight Grasp, Tar Patch, Darkest Night, and Howling Twilight, which are always compared to Lingering Radiation and Radiation Infection, everyone always seems to forget about Fluffy, who supplies his own copies of Twilight Grasp, and Darkest Night as well.
He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you. -F. Nietzsche
Virtueverse
Guide to Dark/Dark Defenders
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Didn't pay attention to the link the first time around. I kept seeing Dark being weak and I was wondering what the source was.|
Originally Posted by CB_GB
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| You're weak. Face it. Granted you get some pretty good defense/resistance from some toggle powers and you're hard to hit as long as you debuff the enemies, but when you do get hit, it doesn't take much to take you out. Certain enemies hit so hard that you can be taken out in one swing (Warwolves, certain Rikti bosses, and Carnie Strongmen come to mind). |
However....
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| your attacks are so weak that it can take a really long time to take an enemy out. With certain very powerful enemies, you may end up in a stalemate only because you can't do damage fast enough to win. |
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....Oy veigh. I recognize that now. Jordan Yen posted in my I15 guide, too. And I wasn't able to respond because I was only back because it was a reactivation weekend. --;
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Originally Posted by Amy_Amp
Didn't pay attention to the link the first time around. I kept seeing Dark being weak and I was wondering what the source was.
Ah, now the true context comes out. Dark isn't weak. It's that defenders are squishy. However.... Coming from somebody who took the snipe at 22, Fearsome Stare at 28, T.T. at 30, and Nightfall at 35. Yeah, I won't even really comment about what my opinion of their build is and their previous comment. Now, if they want to complain about /dark's damage due to lack of a 3rd ST attack and it's DoT nature, then I'm right behind them. My guess is this person has a ways to go before posting a guide on Dark/dark. |
He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you. -F. Nietzsche
Virtueverse
Guide to Dark/Dark Defenders
Dark/dark is a very solid choice. Better suited for defeating a lot of minions vs. a single boss, but it's a great build.
Learn how to use cones. It will be a needed skill for you, with the fear, your cone attack and Tentacles.
Dark/Dark is fantastic and a very friendly set for new defenders. The biggest learning curve for it is how to use your cones well, but becomes incredible once you do. I love my D3 and it's a joy to play on any team. Solo is more of a slow and steady pace, where I'm never in any real danger of dying and I always kill everything, it just takes a bit of time.
Rad/Sonic is also amazing, maybe not quite as friendly to a new defender as Dark is, due to the large amount of toggles. Once you've got everything up and running though, it melts through packs of enemies at a rather frightening pace. My RSD is great to play on a team who knows not to kill the giant glowing baddie, but rather less enjoyable on a team that likes to target the glowie first. Quite solo friendly as well once you get all your toggles running.
Those would be my two recommendations for a first time defender.
Just as a quick after-thought, a D3 will play kind of like a scrappy controller once you get Fearsome Stare and Tenebrous Tentacles.
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Should change that to "blasty" controller. I initially read that without the "s" in "scrappy". =P
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Originally Posted by Fate_Corinth
Just as a quick after-thought, a D3 will play kind of like a scrappy controller once you get Fearsome Stare and Tenebrous Tentacles.
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He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you. -F. Nietzsche
Virtueverse
Guide to Dark/Dark Defenders
Dark/Dark in action
Torrent (high mag group kb) followed Darkest Night (targeted AoE -ToHit anchor).
Lead them onto a Tar Patch (-slow and -resist (which is effectively damage bonus))
Fearsome Stare (cone Fear with even more -ToHit with damage procs)
Tenebrous Tentacles (cone immob)
Nightfall (cone damage)
Howling Twilight + Dark Pit (AoE mag 3 stun)
More Tentacles and Nightfall to death.
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Yeah, sorry, I suppose "scrappy" is kind of confusing considering we have "Scrappers". I was using it to define "full of fighting spirit", not to draw a parallel to our own Scrapper class.|
Originally Posted by Darkity
Should change that to "blasty" controller. I initially read that without the "s" in "scrappy". =P
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Sorry.
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I'm not sure I understand this. Why start with a wide KB and *then* pick a DN anchor? Seems like this is only going to increase your risk of knocking some of the enemies out of DN's radius and you'll eat more of the alpha than you would have if you had simply opened with DN. I'm not against KB in general but I feel like it's kind of an odd choice for Dark/Dark, considering you mostly want them bunched together for cone blasting and stunning.
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Originally Posted by Zombie Man
Dark/Dark in action
Torrent (high mag group kb) followed Darkest Night (targeted AoE -ToHit anchor). Lead them onto a Tar Patch (-slow and -resist (which is effectively damage bonus)) Fearsome Stare (cone Fear with even more -ToHit with damage procs) Tenebrous Tentacles (cone immob) Nightfall (cone damage) Howling Twilight + Dark Pit (AoE mag 3 stun) More Tentacles and Nightfall to death. |
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They're all not in range of the cone attack nor the Darkest Night.|
Originally Posted by Nickolas85
I'm not sure I understand this. Why start with a wide KB and *then* pick a DN anchor? Seems like this is only going to increase your risk of knocking some of the enemies out of DN's radius and you'll eat more of the alpha than you would have if you had simply opened with DN. I'm not against KB in general but I feel like it's kind of an odd choice for Dark/Dark, considering you mostly want them bunched together for cone blasting and stunning.
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Torrent knocks down the lieutenants and even the bosses -- who have control attacks... you don't want to get Held. This gives you a free hit as they're knocked down, which I use to throw Darkest Night on them. If I start with Darkest Night, I have 15 toons shooting at me, and maybe a few will get a lucky hit.
Then I run away. The Darkest Night is an AoE anchor and will agro all the toons that the anchor runs past. This pulls them into a tight bunch onto a Tar Patch which now gives me a 30% Damage bonus. The Darkest Night is now affecting all of them in that tight bunch and now all my cone attacks will hit them all.
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Hm, that's an interesting way of doing things and I thank you for responding. Looking back on my post I realize I came off more douchey than I meant to. Sorry about that.
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Originally Posted by Zombie Man
They're all not in range of the cone attack nor the Darkest Night.
Torrent knocks down the lieutenants and even the bosses -- who have control attacks... you don't want to get Held. This gives you a free hit as they're knocked down, which I use to throw Darkest Night on them. If I start with Darkest Night, I have 15 toons shooting at me, and maybe a few will get a lucky hit. Then I run away. The Darkest Night is an AoE anchor and will agro all the toons that the anchor runs past. This pulls them into a tight bunch onto a Tar Patch which now gives me a 30% Damage bonus. The Darkest Night is now affecting all of them in that tight bunch and now all my cone attacks will hit them all. |
For mostly solo, occasional teaming, I'd have to vote for Kinetics/Dark. For solo, the -ToHit is a huge plus, on top of having a great heal, extra damage (on top of Vigilance/Negligence), plus Siphon Speed. And Transference later on, too!
Once you've got tentacles, fearsome stare, and decent recharge in tar patch, it kills decently. Not as fast as a blaster, but blasters can't sit there absorbing attacks and laughing at them.
And OMG FLUFFY.